SOTU thread

[Cknolls]

These would be a lot more watchable if they told congress to keep their buts in their seats until the speech is over. Its the same thing no matter who is president. Whatever party the president is in, spends half the time jumping up and clapping like they never heard of such awesomeness. The other side has a grumpy look on their face. This years mini-SOTU that the republicans ran afterwards was stupid as well.

 

Nancy Pelosi had some sort of facial tick thing going on. That was scary.

 

 

How about hooking up a generator to her eyes to power the grid with her blinking?

[BigSqwert]

I didn't realize Jay Leno posted in here.

[NorthSideSox72]

Overall I liked the speech. He used a populist, campaign-like tone, but he also called out both parties numerous times, trying to put things on Congress' lap. I tend to agree with him doing that, its needed. Congress is a far larger problem than the Presidency, in terms of not being able to move forward.

 

Negatives:

--Tried to do too much, speech was quite long

--The comment about how budgeting works was lame and unnecessary

--No way the non-renewal of upper income tax cuts by itself will pay for all the new programs he discussed

--No way that all that can be accomplised

--Completely vague as to how he plans to meet that export goal, which I don't think is possible

 

Positives:

--I didn't disagree with any one idea - all good ones, though a couple (bank fees for TARP, nuke/oil allowances to the right) depend on implementation

--Glad he put such an emphasis on clean energy and the future of the economy, I agree that those are keys

--Glad he punched back on the fiscal discipline thing - the political right has made it seem like the GOP can control spending while Obama is a spend-o-matic, which is just not founded in fact. Congress is the major problem with spending, and the GOP has been no better (in fact, including a useless Iraq war, they were worse) at keeping spending under control

--Love the idea of taking the TARP fees (again, as long as they are executed correctly and fairly) and putting them towards small busienss lending

--The spending freeze is a nice little start

--The targeted tax cuts should be useful

--You can tell he's serious about clean energy, since he gave a couple huge carrots to the GOP - drilling and nuke plants

 

Overall, a rambling and overlong but still pretty solid speech, IMO. Now let's see how much of this he, and Congress, can actually accomplish.

 

 

[Balta1701]

--You can tell he's serious about clean energy, since he gave a couple huge carrots to the GOP - drilling and nuke plants

Just like to note how sad it is that in order to get policy changes, we need to do things that are absolutely idiotic to appease one side. Sigh.

[NorthSideSox72]

Just like to note how sad it is that in order to get policy changes, we need to do things that are absolutely idiotic to appease one side. Sigh.

I wouldn't say idiotic, I'd say less than ideal, and certainly not good long term thinking. But if building a handful of nuclear plants, and allowing some more regions for offshore drilling, allows this country to move forward on alt energy sources that actually make sense... then you do that.

 

[Balta1701]

I wouldn't say idiotic, I'd say less than ideal, and certainly not good long term thinking. But if building a handful of nuclear plants, and allowing some more regions for offshore drilling, allows this country to move forward on alt energy sources that actually make sense... then you do that.

There's a simple reality out there. Nuclear power is simply not cost effective. Even a carbon tax doesn't do it. When a utility wants to build a nuclear plant, local rates skyrocket. No intelligent bank will fund the things, with good reason.

[NorthSideSox72]

There's a simple reality out there. Nuclear power is simply not cost effective. Even a carbon tax doesn't do it. When a utility wants to build a nuclear plant, local rates skyrocket. No intelligent bank will fund the things, with good reason.

You are missing my point. I'm not saying nuclear plants are a good idea - I'm saying solar/wind/geo/hydro/other are good ideas, and if a few nuke plants allows us to move forward on the real deal, then its a no-brainer.

 

[Balta1701]

You are missing my point. I'm not saying nuclear plants are a good idea - I'm saying solar/wind/geo/hydro/other are good ideas, and if a few nuke plants allows us to move forward on the real deal, then its a no-brainer.

And as i said, it's sad how it takes a policy that's a total waste of money to get that moving. This can be applied to corn ethanol as well.

[Cknolls]

I didn't realize Jay Leno posted in here.

 

 

Here all day make sure you tip your wait staff.

[NorthSideSox72]

And as i said, it's sad how it takes a policy that's a total waste of money to get that moving. This can be applied to corn ethanol as well.

I'd rather go with nuke plants than core ethanol, if I have to choose an evil.

 

[Balta1701]

"I forgot he was black tonight for an hour"

Chris Matthews, MSNBC.

[Balta1701]

Alito mutters "That's just not true" when Obama talks about the supreme court. At least he wasn't as loud as Wilson. You also get to watch the Supremes sit there unmoving as Obama bashes that decision.

 

[BigSqwert]

Nice to see that the one supposed apolitical institution in Washington is becoming more visibly political.

[Jenksismyhero]

Nice to see that the one supposed apolitical institution in Washington is becoming more visibly political.

 

That's what you get when the President calls out that he completely disagrees with a recent Supreme Court decision, on national prime time television, while the members of SCOtUS sit 10 feet in front of him. That was just stupid.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

 

In 1988 President Ronald Reagan made an indirect jab at the Court's school prayer rulings when he said, "And let me add here: So many of our greatest statesmen have reminded us that spiritual values alone are essential to our nation's health and vigor. The Congress opens its proceedings each day, as does the Supreme Court, with an acknowledgment of the Supreme Being. Yet we are denied the right to set aside in our schools a moment each day for those who wish to pray. I believe Congress should pass our school prayer amendment." In the same speech Reagan also urged the Senate to confirm Anthony Kennedy to the Supreme Court -- the very justice whose handiwork in Citizens United Obama was criticizing.

 

President Warren Harding in 1922 also urged passage of a constitutional amendment to counteract Supreme Court rulings -- the decisions that placed child labor "outside the proper domain of federal regulation," as he put it. Harding added, "We ought to amend [the Constitution] to meet the demands of the people when sanctioned by deliberate public opinion."

 

In 2006, President George W. Bush thanked the Senate for confirming John Roberts Jr. and Samuel Alito Jr. and paid tribute to Sandra Day O'Connor, whose retirement become official the day of the speech.

 

Only President Calvin Coolidge routinely included the Supreme Court in his State of the Union addresses, but not to praise or damn it. It appears he had a "laundry list" approach to the speech, making sure to mention every sector of government, including the Supreme Court. In 1924, Coolidge offered the Court a helping hand, urging Congress to give the justices more discretion over their docket to reduce a congested docket. "Justice long delayed," Coolidge said, "is justice refused."

 

UPDATE: An alert reader notes that in his January 1937 State of the Union address, Roosevelt criticized the Supreme Court without using those words. Upset that the Court had thwarted his efforts to pull the nation out of the Depression, Roosevelt a month later introduced his ultimately unsuccessful "court-packing" plan that would have allowed him to expand membership of the Court and add justices of his own choosing. Here is what Roosevelt said in his State of the Union address: "The Judicial branch also is asked by the people to do its part in making democracy successful. We do not ask the Courts to call non-existent powers into being, but we have a right to expect that conceded powers or those legitimately implied shall be made effective instruments for the common good. The process of our democracy must not be imperiled by the denial of essential powers of free government."

 

LINK

[BigSqwert]

Politicians routinely call out the SCOTUS. Just think of Roe v Wade as a perfect example. The SCOTUS is supposed to an independent, apolitcal branch of government.

[NorthSideSox72]

The SCOTUS call out was interesting, but I don't really blame anyone on SCOTUS for reacting a little bit. Seems like this is much ado about nothing. SCOTUS decided, Obama disagrees, and asks for better laws to work within the confines of Constitutionality. Why is this a problem, for either side?

 

[BigSqwert]

Greenwald articulates it it better than I could...

 

There's a reason that Supreme Court Justices -- along with the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- never applaud or otherwise express any reaction at a State of the Union address. It's vital -- both as a matter of perception and reality -- that those institutions remain apolitical, separate and detached from partisan wars. The Court's pronouncements on (and resolutions of) the most inflammatory and passionate political disputes retain legitimacy only if they possess a credible claim to being objectively grounded in law and the Constitution, not political considerations. The Court's credibility in this regard has -- justifiably -- declined substantially over the past decade, beginning with Bush v. Gore (where 5 conservative Justices issued a ruling ensuring the election of a Republican President), followed by countless 5-4 decisions in which conservative Justices rule in a way that promotes GOP political beliefs, while the more "liberal" Justices do to the reverse (Citizens United is but the latest example). Beyond that, the endless, deceitful sloganeering by right-wing lawyers about "judicial restraint" and "activism" -- all while the judges they most revere cavalierly violate those "principles" over and over -- exacerbates that problem further (the unnecessarily broad scope of Citizens United is the latest example of that, too, and John "balls and strikes" Roberts may be the greatest hypocrite ever to sit on the Supreme Court). All of that is destroying the ability of the judicial branch to be perceived -- and to act -- as one of the few truly apolitical and objective institutions.

 

Justice Alito's flamboyantly insinuating himself into a pure political event, in a highly politicized manner, will only hasten that decline. On a night when both tradition and the Court's role dictate that he sit silent and inexpressive, he instead turned himself into a partisan sideshow -- a conservative Republican judge departing from protocol to openly criticize a Democratic President -- with Republicans predictably defending him and Democrats doing the opposite. Alito is now a political (rather than judicial) hero to Republicans and a political enemy of Democrats, which is exactly the role a Supreme Court Justice should not occupy.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Gotta fill the newscycle and blogs... It is a non-issue. Obama can say what he wants, and it wouldn't have been noticed if a camera wasn't in Alito's face and the lipreaders weren't pursing what he said.

[Balta1701]

Which one of these represents the Joint Chiefs response to:

 

Obama's statement on DADT

 

Obama's statement on Iran.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Which one of these represents the Joint Chiefs response to:

 

Obama's statement on DADT

 

Obama's statement on Iran.

 

No one is under the illusion that the military LIKES the idea of removing DADT. Even the ones that support it, realize it will cause problems short term. Did you expect them to be ecstatic? I agree its the right thing to do, but I wouldn't expect the military to have a party to celebrate it.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Here's a novel idea: from now on, the state of the union address cannot be interrupted by applause. Everyone must remain seated. This would knock off about 20 minutes of the speech, and end any of this crap discussion about the reactions of a bunch of stiffs being told what to do.

 

I'm not a big Obama guy. I think he's a lot of talk and hasn't come through on nearly anything he's promised. I think he made a stupid mistake during the worst economic recession in 80 years to tackle health care when jobs were clearly the most pressing need (and as George Will pointed out, in his first speech in front of congress, it was the 2nd sentence out of his mouth). I'd give him a B on this speech. I really liked how he spoke about uncertainty, which is a feeling we all share, and how previous generations have continued on despite the difficulties. Unfortunately he quickly followed that up with lame stories (that felt forced) of Billy Bob and Sally Sue in X town (clearly reaching out to towns he's losing support in) who are struggling to find a job/having difficulties paying bills, whatever. I also liked the jabs that he took at both parties, to stop f***ing around and get some work done. This too should become law. You have 2 months to campaign for your re-election, not 11. It's ludicrous that the President actually had to remind Congress that they should do s*** instead of worrying about campaigns in January.

 

Other things I thought were interesting:

 

(1) The educational debt proposal of only having to pay 10% at a time, and only for 20 years. I think they should just freeze obligations on student loans for a year (or more). If I didn't have to spend 1200 bucks a month on that I guarantee I'd be spending it all on crap to get the economy going again - a house, crap to put in my house, crap to keep me entertained, etc. (this better be retroactive to include the last decade, at least some of it)

 

(2) Can we get through one state of the union without bringing up issues we all know Congress won't even pretend to talk about? Education....wtf are we talking about education? Might as well be worried about the cart before we buy a horse.

 

(3) The "line by line" review of the budget. I swear every president has proposed this, and it's never happened. Wow, it's so awesome that he's going to review the budget and freeze spending on the 2% that's hardly worth talking about! Defense, Security, Medicare and SS won't be touched. Shocker.

 

(4) Tax breaks/cuts for businesses who keep people employed here, invest in green energy, etc. Excellent ideas, another that's been talked about for years, chance of passing - .000001%.

 

(5) Promote small business growth, something the Repubs have been screaming about for the last 2 years, and he's finally listening.

 

(6) Loved that he railed BushCo for the increase in the deficit of 8 trillion for the decade, acknowledged that he's raised the one year deficit by 1 trillion already, and that his plan is to be deficit neutral .... but only on his extra 1 trillion. So, instead of "hey i'm gonna lower our deficit" the goal now is "let's keep the deficit the same as when I started!" Admirable goal.

 

(7) Nancy Pelosi needs to get a faceplant. She has to be the ugliest woman in the world. So incredibly fake. Obama is taking jabs at your stupidity and inability to pass healthcare and you sit there and smile like an idiot.

 

(8) Shocking that the people on the board and in the media pounce on Alito for making a comment to Sotamayor, or that the joint chiefs applauded for the Iran comment, but no one mentioned Harry Reid yawning because he was so bored FIVE MINUTES into the speech. If he’s really that tired (at 7 oclock at night) maybe Congress shouldn’t be comprised of 80 year olds!

 

[BigSqwert]

(7) Nancy Pelosi needs to get a faceplant. She has to be the ugliest woman in the world.

 

Is this really necessary?

[bmags]

Was thinking the same thing.

[BigSqwert]

Was thinking the same thing.

 

It just tainted a lengthy, well thought out post.