Espn insider access?

[iamshack]

i'm in law school. can you give me a job. please?

Hah, did you notice I said I'm not a lawyer?

 

I went to law school, am currently paying for it now, and I work for the utility company in Las Vegas trading electricity for a living.

 

See the lengths I had to go?

 

Good luck, my friend. Law school truly is an amazing, wonderful experience. I would not trade it for the world, even though I don't know that I will ever actually practice.

[joeynach]

There's a reason why they are WSI and we are soxtalk. And I don't just mean the copyright bulls***.

 

Dont get me started on WSI...one time they banned me for saying "hilljack"

[Ranger]

I see you didn't read the second sentence. Though I meant to say "and I don't mean the copyright bulls***" so that's my fault for the mishap. And I know what Rooney is saying, though it's happened sooo much over the years here and we are still here. If anything, we should have been removed since 2006 on alot of crap we've done/pulled (not just this subject). But I'll stay out of this one. Just don't want the internet police on my case. (or anyone changing what has made ST what it is)

 

 

Great post.

 

 

Great post, why? Because it was completely wrong? The only reason this site hasn't yet had a real issue is because nobody at ESPN.com is aware of it. If they were, I guarantee you that Soxtalk would be contacted.

 

Hey, be defiant if you like, I'm just trying to help y'all out.

[bmags]

Ranger is there any topic where you don't completely defer to management?

[iWiN4PreP]

Great post, why? Because it was completely wrong? The only reason this site hasn't yet had a real issue is because nobody at ESPN.com is aware of it. If they were, I guarantee you that Soxtalk would be contacted.

 

Hey, be defiant if you like, I'm just trying to help y'all out.

 

Then why not let it happen first.

 

Soxtalk is such a small board compared to the world of the internet... We're talking one ESPN premium article on a site that has about 100-200 sox fans (if that) a day in the offseason on it. ESPN would never think about coming here unless someone tipped them off here., and even then - they probably wouldn't even go through the hassle.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Ranger is there any topic where you don't completely defer to management?

 

Maybe I'm just a company shill, but I think management around here does alright by us and it wouldn't hurt to follow established posting guidelines to keep them out of any possible trouble.

 

I for one embrace our new insect overlords.

[bmags]

Maybe I'm just a company shill, but I think management around here does alright by us and it wouldn't hurt to follow established posting guidelines to keep them out of any possible trouble.

 

I for one embrace our new insect overlords.

 

thanks flaxx but i wasn't talking about soxtalk mgmt. Rather the incessant posting from Rongey criticizing anyone who doesn't think the white sox management is acting in the most rational sane course, and when he gets a chance to, he acts for ESPNs.

[southsider2k5]

It has always been Soxtalk's official policy to not allow the posting of premium materials for free public consumption. Ranger is 100% right when he said that we will NOT endanger the site so someone can know what is on Insider. It doesn't matter what the odds of being caught are, we do not allow it. This policy is pretty consistent with other things that could get the site in trouble, such as gambling sites, posting tickets for above face value etc. We err on the side of not being sued.

[FlaSoxxJim]

thanks flaxx but i wasn't talking about soxtalk mgmt. Rather the incessant posting from Rongey criticizing anyone who doesn't think the white sox management is acting in the most rational sane course, and when he gets a chance to, he acts for ESPNs.

 

My mistake, I thought you were fomenting dissent in order to start some sort of mob riot.

[southsider2k5]

My mistake, I thought you were fomenting dissent in order to start some sort of mob riot.

 

Mobs are not recommended in the Chicago area... We study Daley here.

[Ranger]

Ranger is there any topic where you don't completely defer to management?

 

 

thanks flaxx but i wasn't talking about soxtalk mgmt. Rather the incessant posting from Rongey criticizing anyone who doesn't think the white sox management is acting in the most rational sane course, and when he gets a chance to, he acts for ESPNs.

 

Do you even know what you're talking about? This doesn't make any sense. Deferring to management? I'm just telling you how it is, brother. Prove me wrong.

 

And, bmags, talk to me when you graduate from college and learn yourself a thing or two. If I knew half the s*** I thought I knew 10 years ago, I would've been an oracle.

[caulfield12]

thanks flaxx but i wasn't talking about soxtalk mgmt. Rather the incessant posting from Rongey criticizing anyone who doesn't think the white sox management is acting in the most rational sane course, and when he gets a chance to, he acts for ESPNs.

 

 

I'll admit to taking the same shot a day or two ago.

 

I know it's not easy to be in the position he's in, he can't be completely candid like Ozzie Guillen, Jimmy Piersall or Harry Caray, etc. In fact, over time, I think he's matured quite a bit from the very first days in terms of engaging with callers and figuring out which ones to dump or not to let go on and on forever with the same points or monopolize their air time without even asking a question. He doesn't get frustrated as easily, I think that's the biggest difference.

 

Of course, when you're the new guy, people will compare you to past hosts, and a lot of Sox fans really liked Dave Wills, and he was also very open/honest sometimes with his frustrations, more like he was "sharing" the pain of fans than trying to rebut their arguments. It's a fine line...definitely. As an employee of the White Sox first and foremost, people will understand anything he says on-line and some will assume or extrapolate it as the "team position" on many issues.

 

He naturally has to be more careful with what he says...and I know he wants to share his unique insights and the level of access he enjoys is obviously better than a Joe Cowley or Mariotti that aren't/weren't respected by the team/players/management.

 

In fact, after Director of Community Relations, he has the job that I once coveted when I was getting my MS in Sports Administration and starting to work with the Augusta GreenJackets. I gave up that dream after only a couple of seasons because I was too impatient AND I thought it would be very difficult to make it into the front office without having been an MLB player or at least having reached the high minors.

 

Now things are changing in that regard, Daniels in Texas, some of the new GM's with the Epstein/MBA/Ivy League backgrounds as well as the SABR GM's like Ricciardi and DiPodesta.

 

Another thing to consider, I'm sure he grew up with Jack Buck and Mike Shannon. Cardinals' fans tend to be more "genteel" and respectful (not necessarily more knowledgeable, but certainly not as confrontational) and I think that's part of the way he approaches his job...he's part of Jerry Reinsdorf's family, there's a tremendous amount of loyalty shown to those who make it into the "inner circle" in White Sox FO and I hope he can continue to progress in his career.

Edited January 28, 2010 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

In the category of FWIW, the post game show hosts are not employees of the White Sox. They are employed by the stations they work at. In the case of Comcast, with the Sox ownership share, you could say they are Sox employees, but for guys like Wills/Rongey, they are employed by the radio station.

[Ranger]

I'll admit to taking the same shot a day or two ago.

 

I know it's not easy to be in the position he's in, he can't be completely candid like Ozzie Guillen, Jimmy Piersall or Harry Caray, etc. In fact, over time, I think he's matured quite a bit from the very first days in terms of engaging with callers and figuring out which ones to dump or not to let go on and on forever with the same points or monopolize their air time without even asking a question. He doesn't get frustrated as easily, I think that's the biggest difference.

 

Of course, when you're the new guy, people will compare you to past hosts, and a lot of Sox fans really liked Dave Wills, and he was also very open/honest sometimes with his frustrations, more like he was "sharing" the pain of fans than trying to rebut their arguments. It's a fine line...definitely. As an employee of the White Sox first and foremost, people will understand anything he says on-line and some will assume or extrapolate it as the "team position" on many issues.

 

He naturally has to be more careful with what he says...and I know he wants to share his unique insights and the level of access he enjoys is obviously better than a Joe Cowley or Mariotti that aren't/weren't respected by the team/players/management.

 

In fact, after Director of Community Relations, he has the job that I once coveted when I was getting my MS in Sports Administration and starting to work with the Augusta GreenJackets. I gave up that dream after only a couple of seasons because I was too impatient AND I thought it would be very difficult to make it into the front office without having been an MLB player or at least having reached the high minors.

 

Now things are changing in that regard, Daniels in Texas, some of the new GM's with the Epstein/MBA/Ivy League backgrounds as well as the SABR GM's like Ricciardi and DiPodesta.

 

Another thing to consider, I'm sure he grew up with Jack Buck and Mike Shannon. Cardinals' fans tend to be more "genteel" and respectful (not necessarily more knowledgeable, but certainly not as confrontational) and I think that's part of the way he approaches his job...he's part of Jerry Reinsdorf's family, there's a tremendous amount of loyalty shown to those who make it into the "inner circle" in White Sox FO and I hope he can continue to progress in his career.

 

 

caulfield, thank you for the thoughts. There is no question that I should be respectful in how I criticize the team, but that's really not a mandate handed down from somebody above me. It's just common sense. You can criticize management, coaches and players, but you shouldn't be a foaming-mouth idiot when you do it. After all, I have to see those people every day and I have to be accountable for what I say. Mariotti wrote whatever he wanted (and let's be honest here, he wasn't being fair, he was being ridiculous) but in the 4 years I've been doing this job, he was never in the locker room one time. Whatever you're willing to say about people on the air or in print, you better be able to say to their faces. Nothing wrong with being respectful. In fact, it's the right way to do it. I won't apologize for that. There's just a right way to do things and that's how I choose to do it.

 

What you don't know is that perception varies. I've had Kenny say to me on at least two occasions that he thought I "hammered" him in a couple of interviews I did. I was really surprised by that, because I thought I was simply asking fair questions of him. He wasn't angry or anything, he just said it sort of matter-of-factly but with a grin. It was just kind of funny, because I didn't see it that way. It could be because, believe it or not, I think he's a bit nervous in media situations. He's definitely nervous speaking in front of a crowd. I've also had a few players and coaches unhappy with me for things that I've said. It happens at least a few times a year. And sometimes it's for something minor, like Podsednik, who was upset a couple of years back that I suggested he might be good in a bench role. He didn't like that, but it wasn't unfair to say. It also didn't affect us after that. He understood I have a job to do.

 

But, I also wouldn't say I'm in Jerry's "inner circle" either. I don't talk to him all that much, and it's very brief when I do speak to him. I don't even know what the guy thinks of me. He might think I'm terrible for all I know. The ultimate decision of whether I do this job really isn't his, it's up to the station. Wills, by the way, was very good and he's got himself a pretty good job right now. I like him very much. But, believe me, when the Sox lose I'm as upset as anyone else. I mean, I try to forget about it by the time I get home, but I hate it when they play like garbage.

[caulfield12]

But Bob Grim, Chris' boss, is a member of the White Sox FO, right?

 

That's where it gets murky/tricky...the lines get crossed even more with mergers and shareholders in different media conglomerates around the world and country.

[caulfield12]

caulfield, thank you for the thoughts. There is no question that I should be respectful in how I criticize the team, but that's really not a mandate handed down from somebody above me. It's just common sense. You can criticize management, coaches and players, but you shouldn't be a foaming-mouth idiot when you do it. After all, I have to see those people every day and I have to be accountable for what I say. Mariotti wrote whatever he wanted (and let's be honest here, he wasn't being fair, he was being ridiculous) but in the 4 years I've been doing this job, he was never in the locker room one time. Whatever you're willing to say about people on the air or in print, you better be able to say to their faces. Nothing wrong with being respectful. In fact, it's the right way to do it. I won't apologize for that. There's just a right way to do things and that's how I choose to do it.

 

What you don't know is that perception varies. I've had Kenny say to me on at least two occasions that he thought I "hammered" him in a couple of interviews I did. I was really surprised by that, because I thought I was simply asking fair questions of him. He wasn't angry or anything, he just said it sort of matter-of-factly but with a grin. It was just kind of funny, because I didn't see it that way. It could be because, believe it or not, I think he's a bit nervous in media situations. He's definitely nervous speaking in front of a crowd. I've also had a few players and coaches unhappy with me for things that I've said. It happens at least a few times a year. And sometimes it's for something minor, like Podsednik, who was upset a couple of years back that I suggested he might be good in a bench role. He didn't like that, but it wasn't unfair to say. It also didn't affect us after that. He understood I have a job to do.

 

But, I also wouldn't say I'm in Jerry's "inner circle" either. I don't talk to him all that much, and it's very brief when I do speak to him. I don't even know what the guy thinks of me. He might think I'm terrible for all I know. The ultimate decision of whether I do this job really isn't his, it's up to the station. Wills, by the way, was very good and he's got himself a pretty good job right now. I like him very much. But, believe me, when the Sox lose I'm as upset as anyone else. I mean, I try to forget about it by the time I get home, but I hate it when they play like garbage.

 

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

 

In the end, all White Sox fans are on the same side, we want the team to win and to always be proud of them. Whether we're from Red States or Blue States, we're all dyed in "purple" Sox fans....just kidding.

 

Frustration can get the best of anyone on certain occasions (I remember three games in my lifetime, the one where Denny Hocking ended it with a homer against Foulke, the Carlos Gomez/Jenks game at the HHH in late 2008, the time I woke up in Colombia, South America and really panicked when I saw the ESPN Deportes scoreboard showing the White Sox had blown a huge lead against the Kansas City Royals), but we settle down eventually and get over it and act (hopefully) like adults.

 

It's interesting the comment you made about KW. He went to Stanford, he's ultra-confident (almost too sure of himself, seemingly), and yet there always seems to be that transcendant desire to prove others wrong or "to prove he's smarter than everyone else." Perhaps some of that insecurity and nervousness is masked by that "combative/prickly" facade that he has with fans at events like SoxFest or with the media from time to time. Perhaps part of it grew out of his frustration with the negative portrayal in "Moneyball," the criticism after the Ritchie trade, the Sirotka fallout, the Berry/Barry mistake, he made a number of them in his first view years on the job. Then there was the confrontation with Frank Thomas that didn't sit well with everyone, either.

 

I've gone from being on the fence about KW to being a huge supporter (2005 being the most obvious reason, of course), and I find myself defending about 90% of what he does. FWIW, having a GM with a chip of his shoulder is usually a good thing, it's the current manager that most fans are worried has been resting on his laurels a bit in recent years, the Mike Ditka Syndrome to an extent.

 

With that said, I'm 100% an Ozzie supporter, too. He gave us a championship in our lifetime, and I'm not sure how many other managers could have done the same thing....to keep that team from totally collapsing in September and then making them feel so relaxed that they just cruised through the playoffs and halfway through the 2006 season believing they were the best team in baseball.

 

 

 

 

[bmags]

Do you even know what you're talking about? This doesn't make any sense. Deferring to management? I'm just telling you how it is, brother. Prove me wrong.

 

And, bmags, talk to me when you graduate from college and learn yourself a thing or two. If I knew half the s*** I thought I knew 10 years ago, I would've been an oracle.

 

Already graduated, but i do hope by the time I'm thirty I'll have acquired the knowledge to say "I think they probably know what they are doing, right?"

[Ranger]

But Bob Grim, Chris' boss, is a member of the White Sox FO, right?

 

That's where it gets murky/tricky...the lines get crossed even more with mergers and shareholders in different media conglomerates around the world and country.

 

No, Grim is more like a go-between for me. He would have more control over what Farmer/DJ/Hawk/Stone would do, but he' still not really a boss. Grim works with Brooks Boyer. Let's put it this way, the team has the final say in who the booth announcers are but they ask the station for input. On the other hand, the station asks the Sox for input on who to hire for my job, but the station has the final say in the hire. It's the opposite.

 

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

 

In the end, all White Sox fans are on the same side, we want the team to win and to always be proud of them. Whether we're from Red States or Blue States, we're all dyed in "purple" Sox fans....just kidding.

 

Frustration can get the best of anyone on certain occasions (I remember three games in my lifetime, the one where Denny Hocking ended it with a homer against Foulke, the Carlos Gomez/Jenks game at the HHH in late 2008, the time I woke up in Colombia, South America and really panicked when I saw the ESPN Deportes scoreboard showing the White Sox had blown a huge lead against the Kansas City Royals), but we settle down eventually and get over it and act (hopefully) like adults.

 

It's interesting the comment you made about KW. He went to Stanford, he's ultra-confident (almost too sure of himself, seemingly), and yet there always seems to be that transcendant desire to prove others wrong or "to prove he's smarter than everyone else." Perhaps some of that insecurity and nervousness is masked by that "combative/prickly" facade that he has with fans at events like SoxFest or with the media from time to time. Perhaps part of it grew out of his frustration with the negative portrayal in "Moneyball," the criticism after the Ritchie trade, the Sirotka fallout, the Berry/Barry mistake, he made a number of them in his first view years on the job. Then there was the confrontation with Frank Thomas that didn't sit well with everyone, either.

 

I've gone from being on the fence about KW to being a huge supporter (2005 being the most obvious reason, of course), and I find myself defending about 90% of what he does. FWIW, having a GM with a chip of his shoulder is usually a good thing, it's the current manager that most fans are worried has been resting on his laurels a bit in recent years, the Mike Ditka Syndrome to an extent.

 

With that said, I'm 100% an Ozzie supporter, too. He gave us a championship in our lifetime, and I'm not sure how many other managers could have done the same thing....to keep that team from totally collapsing in September and then making them feel so relaxed that they just cruised through the playoffs and halfway through the 2006 season believing they were the best team in baseball.

 

Kenny might be insecure, and that's fine with me. I'd rather him be more active because of it than be too comfortable. I think he usually does a pretty good job of knowing when to be active and knows what his options are, as far as trades go. Where I think you're wrong is that there is no way Ozzie is happy with the one championship. If that's how he truly felt, he wouldn't get physically sick like he sometimes does when they aren't playing well. I know this much to be true: he takes losing worse than anyone here does. And, really, he should. I think some fans' perception that he's "resting on his laurels" is because he hasn't won another one, so it's an easy thing to think. It's the same as people saying that a certain guy doesn't care when he's not performing. The reality is that almost every time the player does care and is likley torn up about it. Just because we can't see it, it doesn't mean he's not.

 

But also, I think people also overrate the manager's affect on the club. They matter, but that 2005 team won because of those players, not so much because of Ozzie managing. He did a good job, but it wasn't all about him. That team won because they pitched beautifully and because all they did was get clutch hits.

 

Anyway, thanks for what you said. I'm sure we'll continue to disagree at times but I enjoy the debate.

 

 

Already graduated, but i do hope by the time I'm thirty I'll have acquired the knowledge to say "I think they probably know what they are doing, right?"

 

Huh? Again, you've contributed nothing.

[ptatc]

No, Grim is more like a go-between for me. He would have more control over what Farmer/DJ/Hawk/Stone would do, but he' still not really a boss. Grim works with Brooks Boyer. Let's put it this way, the team has the final say in who the booth announcers are but they ask the station for input. On the other hand, the station asks the Sox for input on who to hire for my job, but the station has the final say in the hire. It's the opposite.

 

 

 

 

Kenny might be insecure, and that's fine with me. I'd rather him be more active because of it than be too comfortable. I think he usually does a pretty good job of knowing when to be active and knows what his options are, as far as trades go. Where I think you're wrong is that there is no way Ozzie is happy with the one championship. If that's how he truly felt, he wouldn't get physically sick like he sometimes does when they aren't playing well. I know this much to be true: he takes losing worse than anyone here does. And, really, he should. I think some fans' perception that he's "resting on his laurels" is because he hasn't won another one, so it's an easy thing to think. It's the same as people saying that a certain guy doesn't care when he's not performing. The reality is that almost every time the player does care and is likley torn up about it. Just because we can't see it, it doesn't mean he's not.

 

But also, I think people also overrate the manager's affect on the club. They matter, but that 2005 team won because of those players, not so much because of Ozzie managing. He did a good job, but it wasn't all about him. That team won because they pitched beautifully and because all they did was get clutch hits.

 

Anyway, thanks for what you said. I'm sure we'll continue to disagree at times but I enjoy the debate.

 

 

 

 

Huh? Again, you've contributed nothing.

 

I disagree with this a little.

 

How many managers would have allowed the starting pitchers to pitch that deep into games that often? Managers today like to pull them far too early to play the "safe matchup game."

 

While I frequently disagree with Ozzie's managing or over managing to play the national league type games in the AL, I think his trust in the pitchers and letting them go was a great example of having doing what you think is right and not following normal convention.

[iamshack]

I disagree with this a little.

 

How many managers would have allowed the starting pitchers to pitch that deep into games that often? Managers today like to pull them far too early to play the "safe matchup game."

 

While I frequently disagree with Ozzie's managing or over managing to play the national league type games in the AL, I think his trust in the pitchers and letting them go was a great example of having doing what you think is right and not following normal convention.

I agree with you in regards to the starting pitching. If Ozzie has a great strength other than keeping guys loose, it's his handling of the starting pitching. Since his first year on the job, he's had an uncanny sense of how to handle a starting staff extremely well.

[everafan]

Keith Law had better stay out of Chicago White Sox business.