Republican 2012 Nomination Thread

[Jenksismyhero]

And of course she's got a completely clean history:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-20...rts-emerge.html

 

Seriously though, the most interesting thing about that is the "rumor" that she dated Steve Stone in the 80's. Crazy.

[StrangeSox]

And the character assassination begins

[StrangeSox]

The over-the-top misogynistic response to this from the conservative talk radio/internet sphere has been more disgusting than the actual allegations.

 

edit: jesus christ the comments on this article: http://www.suntimes.com/8592168-417/sneed-...-month-ago.html

Edited November 8, 2011 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

The over-the-top misogynistic response to this from the conservative talk radio/internet sphere has been more disgusting than the actual allegations.

 

edit: jesus christ the comments on this article: http://www.suntimes.com/8592168-417/sneed-...-month-ago.html

 

If it ends up being true about Cain, we will find out. If it ends up being false -- get this -- we will find out! I know it's tough to wait as it unfolds before we decide to make up our minds. In the end, the truth WILL come out, and then and only then will anyone know for sure.

 

Can't any of you wait for this to play out and get some actual verdicts instead of just throwing your hat into whichever side of the ring you want to win? It's pretty sick some of you actually WANT this to be true about Cain, simply because you don't agree with his politics. Whether he's innocent or not be damned, right? f*** him because he's a Republican.

 

And don't pretend that's not how you feel, because it's apparent, and it's shameful.

 

Innocent until proven guilty, right? Well, so long as it's someone you like, I guess.

 

Nothing like waiting to see who's right and who's wrong here or anything...the media reported nothing but facts on this and we know everything!

 

Personally I've never liked Cain since he started appearing int he public eye, I don't particularly agree with him on much of what I've heard, and his 9/9/9 plan is just...downright flawed. But wishing it's true that he sexually harassed people? I may not like his politics, but wishing he'd have harmed people to keep him out of a presidential race is f***ing sick.

[Balta1701]

If it ends up being true about Cain, we will find out. If it ends up being false -- get this -- we will find out! I know it's tough to wait as it unfolds before we decide to make up our minds. In the end, the truth WILL come out, and then and only then will anyone know for sure.

 

Can't any of you wait for this to play out and get some actual verdicts instead of just throwing your hat into whichever side of the ring you want to win? It's pretty sick some of you actually WANT this to be true about Cain, simply because you don't agree with his politics. Whether he's innocent or not be damned, right? f*** him because he's a Republican.

 

And don't pretend that's not how you feel, because it's apparent, and it's shameful.

 

Innocent until proven guilty, right? Well, so long as it's someone you like, I guess.

 

Nothing like waiting to see who's right and who's wrong here or anything...the media reported nothing but facts on this and we know everything!

 

Personally I've never liked Cain since he started appearing int he public eye, I don't particularly agree with him on much of what I've heard, and his 9/9/9 plan is just...downright flawed. But wishing it's true that he sexually harassed people? I may not like his politics, but wishing he'd have harmed people to keep him out of a presidential race is f***ing sick.

Actual verdicts? How? There aren't going to be charges filed for cases that happened 15 years ago. That's part of why you settle in the first place.

[Y2HH]

Actual verdicts? How? There aren't going to be charges filed for cases that happened 15 years ago. That's part of why you settle in the first place.

 

I guarantee you we will find out in the weeks to come if this was true or not.

 

How much would you like to bet?

 

Verdicts don't necessarily have to mean "court verdicts", but if there is proof, or evidence, someone will come out with it...and with or without a court of law, we will know if it's true.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Y2HH

[southsider2k5]

If it ends up being true about Cain, we will find out. If it ends up being false -- get this -- we will find out! I know it's tough to wait as it unfolds before we decide to make up our minds. In the end, the truth WILL come out, and then and only then will anyone know for sure.

 

Can't any of you wait for this to play out and get some actual verdicts instead of just throwing your hat into whichever side of the ring you want to win? It's pretty sick some of you actually WANT this to be true about Cain, simply because you don't agree with his politics. Whether he's innocent or not be damned, right? f*** him because he's a Republican.

 

And don't pretend that's not how you feel, because it's apparent, and it's shameful.

 

Innocent until proven guilty, right? Well, so long as it's someone you like, I guess.

 

Nothing like waiting to see who's right and who's wrong here or anything...the media reported nothing but facts on this and we know everything!

 

Personally I've never liked Cain since he started appearing int he public eye, I don't particularly agree with him on much of what I've heard, and his 9/9/9 plan is just...downright flawed. But wishing it's true that he sexually harassed people? I may not like his politics, but wishing he'd have harmed people to keep him out of a presidential race is f***ing sick.

 

Yet par for the course.

 

[StrangeSox]

I don't care if this is true about Cain. His idiotic policies and complete ignorance should be more than enough to sink his campaign; if not, then we truly get the government we deserve.

 

I didn't post anything until jenks' completely dismissed the allegations as a money-grab. The reaction was based more on what others in the conservative world have said in attempts to dismiss these claims, and that wasn't fair to jenks.

[Balta1701]

I guarantee you we will find out in the weeks to come if this was true or not.

 

How much would you like to bet?

 

Verdicts don't necessarily have to mean "court verdicts", but if there is proof, or evidence, someone will come out with it...and with or without a court of law, we will know if it's true.

Seriously? You actually expect hard evidence in what is almost by definition a he-said, she-said case? The hardest evidence you're going to get is the fact that there were settlements. Supposedly the accuser yesterday presented sworn statements from 2 of her friends that she told them about the events at the time, but look how convincing that was.

 

Barring video of Cain grabbing some woman's behind showing up on youtube, there is not going to be any hard evidence.

[StrangeSox]

I guarantee you we will find out in the weeks to come if this was true or not.

 

How much would you like to bet?

 

Verdicts don't necessarily have to mean "court verdicts", but if there is proof, or evidence, someone will come out with it...and with or without a court of law, we will know if it's true.

 

It is literally a he-said, she-said case. We know that there were settlements.

 

Beyond that, there's no real hope for proof or evidence.

[Y2HH]

Seriously? You actually expect hard evidence in what is almost by definition a he-said, she-said case? The hardest evidence you're going to get is the fact that there were settlements. Supposedly the accuser yesterday presented sworn statements from 2 of her friends that she told them about the events at the time, but look how convincing that was.

 

Barring video of Cain grabbing some woman's behind showing up on youtube, there is not going to be any hard evidence.

 

So, I guess he's not guilty then.

 

I like your brand of justice, however...a few people accuse someone of something and f*** them, he must be guilty...after all, you don't agree with his politics.

 

Good to see your true colors.

[StrangeSox]

Yet par for the course.

 

No one is wishing that Cain had harmed people. That's a pretty offensive accusation.

[Y2HH]

It is literally a he-said, she-said case. We know that there were settlements.

 

Beyond that, there's no real hope for proof or evidence.

 

Then how about you stop hanging him from the f***ing noose, since you have no proof or evidence, no matter how much you WISH there was.

[Y2HH]

No one is wishing that Cain had harmed people. That's a pretty offensive accusation.

 

You sure as hell are. And I don't care if you're offended.

[StrangeSox]

Then how about you stop hanging him from the f***ing noose, since you have no proof or evidence, no matter how much you WISH there was.

 

I've said very little about Cain in this case. That someone in a position of power would allegedly abuse that power is, unfortunately, not surprising. My reactions have been to the way that the accusers are being attacked or how the entire idea of sexual harassment is being dismissed by some (not here) and the way the campaign is responding.

 

I find it probable that he did, in fact, sexually harass these women. I'm not trying to "hang him from a noose" because of it, though. I genuinely appreciate the rhetorical flair, though.

[StrangeSox]

You sure as hell are. And I don't care if you're offended.

 

I am?

[Y2HH]

I am?

 

If you weren't, why are you so quick to defend the obviously innocent women from the big bad republican smear machine?

 

I believe it was you that said, and the character assassination begins...which is simply you siding with the women because it's republicans they're going up against.

 

I mean, of course it's just you looking out for the little people. Politics has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

Sell your bulls*** elsewhere...your post defending them is ENTIRELY politically driven. And you know it.

[StrangeSox]

If you weren't, why are you so quick to defend the obviously innocent women from the big bad republican smear machine?

 

I believe it was you that said, and the character assassination begins...which is simply you siding with the women because it's republicans they're going up against.

 

I mean, of course it's just you looking out for the little people. Politics has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

Sell your bulls*** elsewhere...your post defending them is ENTIRELY politically driven. And you know it.

 

You're a better mind-reader than jenks.

 

Whether or not this woman is telling the truth, the immediate dismissal of her claims because she's a "gold-digger" or has had a long employment history or has filed for bankruptcy and had a paternity suit is absolutely character assassination. My disgust with the sexist dismissals of women's claims of abuse or harassment and the subsequent attacks on the accusers is not partisan-politically motivated.

[Y2HH]

You're a better mind-reader than jenks.

 

Whether or not this woman is telling the truth, the immediate dismissal of her claims because she's a "gold-digger" or has had a long employment history or has filed for bankruptcy and had a paternity suit is absolutely character assassination. My disgust with the sexist dismissals of women's claims of abuse or harassment and the subsequent attacks on the accusers is not partisan-politically motivated.

 

It's only character assassination if it's not true.

 

Is it true?

 

If so, she assassinated her own character a long time ago...blaming the big bad republican mainstream media for doing it is a lie.

 

That's like me blaming the liberal media for the ongoing character assassination of Cain. Thing is, if Cain did these things, and paid settlements to keep people quiet throughout the years, as the weeks roll on we will find out and get a better picture of the man Cain was/is...and in that same light, it was Cain that assassinated himself...not the liberal media.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

It's only character assassination if it's not true.

 

Is it true?

 

If so, she assassinated her own character a long time ago...blaming the big bad republican mainstream media for doing it is a lie.

 

Discrediting claims of rape or abuse or harassment by tarnishing the accuser is a time-tested and despicable tactic. Again, my disgust with open misogyny has nothing to do with partisan politics.

 

I'll outsource the general idea to Slate:

 

Remember, we don’t know what happened, beyond the fact that several employees came forward with complaints and received cash settlements. That’s not a lot of information. Cain defenders could have stopped there. Instead, great swaths of them have opted to assert that there could never be a valid sex discrimination claim because the whole thing is just a racket. And they went even further: The same folks criticizing the National Restaurant Association employees who came forward with claims that they were uncomfortable in their workplace are willing to deploy the most archaic and gender-freighted stereotypes to get there. Sexual harassment can’t be “real” because the women who claim it are money-grubbing, hysterical, attention-seeking tramps.

 

This is what I was reacting to; I already said that I unfairly projected the worst of this onto jenks' statements, and I apologize to him again for doing so.

 

Edited November 8, 2011 by StrangeSox

[Balta1701]

It's only character assassination if it's not true.

 

Is it true?

 

If so, she assassinated her own character a long time ago...blaming the big bad republican mainstream media for doing it is a lie.

 

That's like me blaming the liberal media for the ongoing character assassination of Cain. Thing is, if Cain did these things, and paid settlements to keep people quiet throughout the years, as the weeks roll on we will find out and get a better picture of the man Cain was/is...and in that same light, it was Cain that assassinated himself...not the liberal media.

Really, we've watched the exact opposite happen here already. As more people have come out and said thing which accuse him of stuff, the "They're just doing it for money" volume has turned up.

[StrangeSox]

That's like me blaming the liberal media for the ongoing character assassination of Cain. Thing is, if Cain did these things, and paid settlements to keep people quiet throughout the years, as the weeks roll on we will find out and get a better picture of the man Cain was/is...and in that same light, it was Cain that assassinated himself...not the liberal media.

 

That is not at all similar to attacking the accuser and disparaging that person in order to deflect their claims.

[Y2HH]

That is not at all similar to attacking the accuser and disparaging that person in order to deflect their claims.

 

That's iffy...and while it's not the exact same, it IS similar...in either case, both are attempts of character assassination. In the end, if the women turn out to be liars with the past the right wing media is reporting on, then it wasn't the media that assassinated their character, they did it. Same goes for Cain/Liberal minded media.

 

Cain has to know this is part of the game, and let's not pretend these women weren't advised of the same. Come out against a public name and expect this...if it turns out to be untrue, sue them for defamation. However, if you come out against a public official with a spotty past -- rest assured it's coming out.

 

And I don't care if you do it to a democrat or a republican in power.

[Y2HH]

Really, we've watched the exact opposite happen here already. As more people have come out and said thing which accuse him of stuff, the "They're just doing it for money" volume has turned up.

 

They can turn that volume up to 100%, doesn't matter if it turns out to be false. However, if what they're saying turns out to be true -- and I trust we will find out in time -- it's them that will end up looking dumb.

[Jenksismyhero]

That is not at all similar to attacking the accuser and disparaging that person in order to deflect their claims.

 

I just don't understand how going one direction it's a character assassination, but going the other it's justified truth-telling. I get that where there's smoke, there's fire, but right now all we have is 4 anonymous women making claims of improper conduct/harassment, and one who has come out. The one that has come out has some serious credibility issues. Why is it so wrong to question that, especially given the timing and the involvement of a known sleaze-ball Hollywood attorney? And now the morning talk show circuit?