Bill Simmons is so wrong

[caulfield12]

Well, there was a LOT more heartbreak in the 60's and 70's because of the nature of the American League. There weren't three divisions with a wildcard. If the 2005 team would have ended up not making the playoffs, I think you could make a much stronger argument that would resonate with White Sox fans. 2005 changed everything.

 

Nobody writing today remember the Black Sox Scandal or lived through it, I'm sure if this article was written in 1955 it'd be a quite different one.

 

The Cubs also have the Billy Goat, Leon Durham/1984...1989 was forgotten because of the earthquake, 1969 will ALWAYS be used as the example of blowing a huge lead, along with I think the 64 Phillies. Who was that left fielder that muffed the ball again? Brant Brown? And the Cubs have blown their own lead in the final weeks, too....

 

The White Sox suffered because of mostly bad teams and cash-poor ownership for three decades, although a lot of Sox fans fondly reminisce about the 1977 South Side Hitmen team...the closest thing to that was the 2000 and 2006 teams (first half) in modern club history.

 

When I think of losing baseball franchises, the Cubs and the Indians are the ones that come to mind, and the Indians have been to a couple of World Series in the last 15 years.

[The Ginger Kid]

That would be too nerve racking. I would rather just sweep them. I would greatly fear losing to the Cubs in the World Series. I mean their fans can't keep their mouths shut now and they haven't won anything in over one hundred years, imagine if they beat us in the World Series

we'd be very lonely fans. the whole world would be cheering for the cubs - even al qaeda.

[Quin]

That would be too nerve racking. I would rather just sweep them. I would greatly fear losing to the Cubs in the World Series. I mean their fans can't keep their mouths shut now and they haven't won anything in over one hundred years, imagine if they beat us in the World Series

 

My original that I told my brother was Buehrle v. Zambrano each throwing a perfect game, when 2 outs, bottom of the ninth up walks late season addition pinch hitter Frank. He tears the cover off one. /cubsdie

 

If not, sweep them and celebrate on Wrigley Field as Sox fans storm the field.

 

Either one makes me happy.

[SockMe]

I can only imagine what will happen when and IF the Cubs win the World Series. It would be hard to live in Illinois. Hopefully it never happens in my lifetime!

[OldSmoky2]

My dream scenario is still a Sox-Cubs World Series, ending in Game 7 at USCF with a Paulie walkoff grand slam after being down by 3.

 

It would destroy Cubdom.

 

Not sure my heart would hold up in that scenario, but I'd sure take it.

On the other hand, sweeping them in four and removing all doubt would be just fine.

[FlaSoxxJim]

They haven't won a series in 101 years, and haven't been to one in 65.

 

It has been rather enjoyable the last two years to stop talking about the Cubs 100 years of futility, and to instead be able to now refer to the Cubs first 100 years of futility. . . and counting.

 

1977 was my first childhood heartbreak year, which then paled compared to 1983. By 1993 I was away from the city with not nearly the universal access to games that out-of-towners have now, so even though I was tuned in to watch us lose in the playoffs, I had less season-long emotion invested in the team. 1994 totally sucked, but I wasn't 100% convinced we'd have held off the Indians.

 

My Dad would add 1967 to Soxdom's historic heartbreak years. Almost no offense but a pitching staff that threw more than 20 shutouts, led the AL for most of July and August and into September, one game out of first place with a week to go, and then ultimately finishing in 4th place in the league with just 3 wins separating us and the first place Red Sox. That one would have stuck with me for a long time.

 

[Middle Buffalo]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nfl

 

Steps to be a tortured fan:

 

 

 

Please.

 

We had tortures in '59, '83, '93, and '00 - along with collapsing in the 50s and 70s.

 

The Cubs had about the same amount.

Bill Simmons is a national writer with very little national perspective. I don't value his opinion of anything not related to Boston - and even that isn't great because he's not at all objective when it comes to the Boston sports scene.

 

He's probably correct about Cubs fans being more tortured, but his reasons are faulty. Their failures are amplified because they are one of the handful of "national" sports teams. Everyone knows a Cubs fan, so their failures are part of everyone's life. The pool of Sox fans is limited. We may have failed as often, but it only affected us.

 

When the Cubs were in the playoffs in '04, people at work just assumed that I was rooting for them because I'm from Chicago. They were shocked when I said that I not only wanted them to lose, but I wanted them to lose in "spectacular fashion." I feel somewhat responsible for the Bartman fiasco. I no longer root against the Cubs, but I really enjoy that they haven't won anything. I'd like the Sox to get at least one more World Series win before the Cubs win anything.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Middle Buffalo

[Springfield Soxfan]

Words can't describe. I knew with so much certainty that if they worked it out and held off a strike, that was our year. I could just feel it. And then...poof.

We should have made the playoffs in 2003 as well but then that September collapse came, we had Colon etc..............that hurt too.

[bmags]

2003 hit the hardest for me. 1994 I was just confused as hell being 8 years old. But that year I got one of those fake autographed balls signed by the whole team, I looked at it so much i rubbed off all the signatures in like a month. I love those memories. Also...there was a mascot then, that I loved...it was a dog?

[Jerksticks]

I was 16 in 2000 and I remember whipping an apple at the wall in my room. The dried up chunks still remain at my parents house.

[clyons]

2003 hit the hardest for me. 1994 I was just confused as hell being 8 years old. But that year I got one of those fake autographed balls signed by the whole team, I looked at it so much i rubbed off all the signatures in like a month. I love those memories. Also...there was a mascot then, that I loved...it was a dog?

 

Waldo the White Sox Wolf.

[Quin]

When the Cubs were in the playoffs in '04, people at work just assumed that I was rooting for them because I'm from Chicago. They were shocked when I said that I not only wanted them to lose, but I wanted them to lose in "spectacular fashion." I feel somewhat responsible for the Bartman fiasco. I no longer root against the Cubs, but I really enjoy that they haven't won anything. I'd like the Sox to get at least one more World Series win before the Cubs win anything.

 

Same, in my 6th grade class, everyone got mad at me for wanting the Marlins to beat the Yankees. "How could you root for the team that beat the Cubbies!?"

 

That was the one time I ever even hoped the Cubs would win, and that was because my Uncle and Gramps were both getting old and I thought they deserved it. Then the Cubs blew it in Cub-fashion, and I hoped they'd never recover. Towards the end of his life, my grandpa liked the Sox more because 1) They were better run and 2) He couldn't stand the Cubs broadcast team.

 

Waldo the White Sox Wolf.

 

Waldo was always my favorite mascot. Not only was he my favorite colors (Black, white, silver, go figure) but he fit the 'lone wolf' White Sox fan mentality that can occur at times.

 

Southpaw is just a giant Pokemon on crack.

[knightni]

Same, in my 6th grade class, everyone got mad at me for wanting the Marlins to beat the Yankees. "How could you root for the team that beat the Cubbies!?"

Wow. You were in elementary school during the Bartman game?

 

Now I feel old.

 

Southpaw is just a giant Pokemon on crack.

 

 

I hear u liek Southpawz?

[Quin]

Wow. You were in elementary school during the Bartman game?

 

Now I feel old.

 

You have not experienced Cubdom at its saddest until you've seen a room full of devastated 6th graders who thought the Marlins cheated.

 

 

I hear u liek Southpawz?

Edited January 30, 2010 by Quinarvy

[3GamesToLove]

I was 11 in 2000. I'd been closely following the team since the second half of '98, and '00 was so great. I loved that team. I was crushed when we went out with such a whimper.

[Pants Rowland]

I was 11 in 2000. I'd been closely following the team since the second half of '98, and '00 was so great. I loved that team. I was crushed when we went out with such a whimper.

 

Health of the pitching staff fell apart at the wrong time. That team could mash the ball, though.

 

The last season of the old ballpark was a lot of fun but heartbreaking in its own right, especially now knowing that the A's were led by a couple of cheaters.

 

I am just amazed at how many posters here are actually buying into the whole garbage notion that Cubs fans have suffered the most. If you look at all the franchises in baseball, you will see that out of 100+ world series, the Yankees have represented the AL about a third of the time and won about 25% of the total. The Cardinals are the Yankees of the NL, though a poor man's one at that. The Red Sox dominated early in the 1900s and then finally resurrected the franchise in the past decade or so. After that, not many teams have had any significant number of pennants of note. For the most part, it is stories like the White Sox, Phillies, Indians, Orioles, Reds, Pirates, etc. Periods of fielding very competitive teams, an occasional pennant or title, and some really bad stretches as well. Every one of these franchises can point to a whole host of heartbreaking times where they were so close to a pennant and a player got hurt or the team hit a bad stretch or the Yankees f***ed them like they did so many times to the Sox in the 50s and 60s (with the Indians and Tigers experiencing a lot of the same pain during that stretch). I scoff at the idea that any one of their fan bases has suffered more than the rest.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Wow. You were in elementary school during the Bartman game?

 

Now I feel old.

 

I was 13, and would have just started 7th grade. Hah.

[bmags]

Health of the pitching staff fell apart at the wrong time. That team could mash the ball, though.

 

The last season of the old ballpark was a lot of fun but heartbreaking in its own right, especially now knowing that the A's were led by a couple of cheaters.

 

I am just amazed at how many posters here are actually buying into the whole garbage notion that Cubs fans have suffered the most. If you look at all the franchises in baseball, you will see that out of 100+ world series, the Yankees have represented the AL about a third of the time and won about 25% of the total. The Cardinals are the Yankees of the NL, though a poor man's one at that. The Red Sox dominated early in the 1900s and then finally resurrected the franchise in the past decade or so. After that, not many teams have had any significant number of pennants of note. For the most part, it is stories like the White Sox, Phillies, Indians, Orioles, Reds, Pirates, etc. Periods of fielding very competitive teams, an occasional pennant or title, and some really bad stretches as well. Every one of these franchises can point to a whole host of heartbreaking times where they were so close to a pennant and a player got hurt or the team hit a bad stretch or the Yankees f***ed them like they did so many times to the Sox in the 50s and 60s (with the Indians and Tigers experiencing a lot of the same pain during that stretch). I scoff at the idea that any one of their fan bases has suffered more than the rest.

 

God damn it you are wonderful.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I don't buy a straight-up argument that Cubdom suffers more than other fan bases either, but I don't think that's really the issue. It's the fact that a significant number of Cub fans truly embrace the "Lovable Losers" thing that allows their patheticness to rise so far above everyone else's.

[MiddleCoastBias]

It's the fact that a significant number of Cub fans truly embrace the "Lovable Losers" thing that allows their patheticness to rise so far above everyone else's.

 

True. I always tell my Cubs fans friends that it would be better for their franchise and the MLB if the Cubs DIDN'T win the World Series. Once they win, they lose that allure of the 100+ drought, of the "next year" mentality. After they win the WS and regress towards mediocrity, it's not "cool" to lose every year anymore.

[elrockinMT]

As an old tme fan 1964 when we finished one game behind the Yankmees and I believe we won 99 games was a pretty bad feeling. 1967 weas really quite a season. Pitching-pitching-and more pitching kept the Sox in it till those last 3 or 5 games when we played the A's and Senators and got swept. The offense was inept with Pete Ward leading the team with 18 HR's. I think the team BA was like .220. I remmeber a funny article about the upcoming '68 season with make believe highlights and it said something in there about the "White Sox set a new record by getting shut out 6 times in a row-they win three of them"

[BlizzardOfOzzie]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nfl

 

Steps to be a tortured fan:

 

 

 

Please.

 

We had tortures in '59, '83, '93, and '00 - along with collapsing in the 50s and 70s.

 

The Cubs had about the same amount.

 

 

Well - the difference is ... every time the Sox lost in the playoffs, collapsed, etc. - we always said the same thing. We didn't pitch or hit as well as the other team did against us. We NEVER made up any stupid, lame excuses every time and that's where the Cubs fans are different. Every time, it's something new. Billy goats, black cats walking by Santo, Steve Garvey in '84, some dork sitting there with a Walkman in '03 or whatever the hell it was. Whatever - sucks to be them.

[witesoxfan]

Health of the pitching staff fell apart at the wrong time. That team could mash the ball, though.

 

The last season of the old ballpark was a lot of fun but heartbreaking in its own right, especially now knowing that the A's were led by a couple of cheaters.

 

I am just amazed at how many posters here are actually buying into the whole garbage notion that Cubs fans have suffered the most. If you look at all the franchises in baseball, you will see that out of 100+ world series, the Yankees have represented the AL about a third of the time and won about 25% of the total. The Cardinals are the Yankees of the NL, though a poor man's one at that. The Red Sox dominated early in the 1900s and then finally resurrected the franchise in the past decade or so. After that, not many teams have had any significant number of pennants of note. For the most part, it is stories like the White Sox, Phillies, Indians, Orioles, Reds, Pirates, etc. Periods of fielding very competitive teams, an occasional pennant or title, and some really bad stretches as well. Every one of these franchises can point to a whole host of heartbreaking times where they were so close to a pennant and a player got hurt or the team hit a bad stretch or the Yankees f***ed them like they did so many times to the Sox in the 50s and 60s (with the Indians and Tigers experiencing a lot of the same pain during that stretch). I scoff at the idea that any one of their fan bases has suffered more than the rest.

 

 

God damn it you are wonderful.

 

Yeah, agree completely. The Cubs may have suffered in the past, but they've embraced it within their tradition. That's what's wrong with it.

 

And s***, atleast Chicago has won championships within the past 50 years. The Bulls won 6, the Bears and Sox both won 1, and both the Bears and Sox have both been to another (ok, the Sox other one was 51 years ago, bite me). Cleveland has had a hell of time over the past 60 years. They haven't won anything since Veeck was there.

 

As an old tme fan 1964 when we finished one game behind the Yankmees and I believe we won 99 games was a pretty bad feeling. 1967 weas really quite a season. Pitching-pitching-and more pitching kept the Sox in it till those last 3 or 5 games when we played the A's and Senators and got swept. The offense was inept with Pete Ward leading the team with 18 HR's. I think the team BA was like .220. I remmeber a funny article about the upcoming '68 season with make believe highlights and it said something in there about the "White Sox set a new record by getting shut out 6 times in a row-they win three of them"

 

I have often disagreed with some of your loyalties to current and former Sox players, such as Crede and Dye, but you definitely bring a completely different point of view from a completely different time, and it's appreciated. You do have a very good general knowledge of the game and it should be noted.

[FlaSoxxJim]

And s***, atleast Chicago has won championships within the past 50 years. The Bulls won 6, the Bears and Sox both won 1, and both the Bears and Sox have both been to another (ok, the Sox other one was 51 years ago, bite me). Cleveland has had a hell of time over the past 60 years. They haven't won anything since Veeck was there.

 

That's a little hyperbolic. They came up short in the 2995 and 1997 World Series games, but took them to 6 and 7 games, and only lost in 1997 to the Marlins in extras. Four consecutive division championships from 1995-1998 is hardly not winning anything, though sure they have no hardware to show for all of that.

 

I totally hated the that era's Indians teams, and for years I blamed the strike on derailing our momentum and letting the Tribe dominate he division all those years.

 

[wilmot825]

Agreed 2000 was heartbreaking...sat in the stands in the left field gap for Game 2...maybe one of the reasons why I hate Rickey Henderson and Carlos Guillen so much.