Forgive Student Loan Debt to Stimulate the Economy

[mr_genius]

Plato taught him for a couple of drachmas.

 

[vandy125]

The fact that the not going to college v. going to college is even being considered lets you know how much the system is broken. I say this b/c while college degrees earn more, that is becoming increasingly bogged down and unclear. The bachelors degree system is probably not the most efficient system, certainly not the best use of most's money, and incompatible with a large number who go there. Which makes it more insane that those with the language and math skills to get through to a for year, to reach their full potential, are asked to go into mountains of debt in order to get into a good program It's insane.

 

And it's funny how moral this argument is. The idea comes from the facts that we had to bail the banks out because then lending would freeze, the economy would come to a standstill, crippling depression. YOu can see where you benefit. For this, relieving thousands of the nations best educated from debt of a broken system, gets met as if they are dead beats and why should they get free. If these people were relieved of this student loan debt, these are the ones who could best use that money on capital for a small business, or let alone the fact that these are a whole bunch of single/18-34's who like to spend. But when this is suggested, everyone becomes defensive.

 

So, what other debts should we relieve them of? Mortgages? Car Loans? Credit Card payments? Anything else? After all, they do need money to take out a loan to start a small business. Should we relieve them of that cost too?

[Texsox]

Tex,

How much did your tuition cost when you were in college?

 

I just finished a degree this past spring, tuition was $5,000 a year. Public university in Texas. I stopped going to school in the 1980s because I thought I'd wind up earning more without it. The industry I was in changed, became more national corporates and less local control, and college degrees were required for almost every position.

 

and 2K5 nciely played.

[bmags]

So, what other debts should we relieve them of? Mortgages? Car Loans? Credit Card payments? Anything else? After all, they do need money to take out a loan to start a small business. Should we relieve them of that cost too?

 

Very righteous. My point was that these plans are coming out of ideas for stimulus. When people talk about relieving a burden on a business, bank or corporation (WHO ARE PEOPLE TOO/green) you will get the economic and the moral argument. And yet for this you only get the self-righteous I walked to school in the snow with 6 jobs and everyone else must be lazy i'm a hard worker crap. Who cares. In 5 years the people who graduate from college will be in thousands more debt than me. In just five years. The people who currently worked hard to graduate college and had to pay their way through, are in the worst job market in at least 30 years. With no signs of improving. But they should've realized that the banks were levereging 35:1 on a real estate market that was about to burst. Do you want to forever forgive people's debt? no. But when we are in a prolonged recession and people are thinking of ways to help, one thing that doesn't is immediately thinking of yourself as some 19th century rugged individualist because you have a damn car payment.

[Jenksismyhero]

So, what other debts should we relieve them of? Mortgages? Car Loans? Credit Card payments? Anything else? After all, they do need money to take out a loan to start a small business. Should we relieve them of that cost too?

 

If you're Obama or a Democrat in office, then yes.

[vandy125]

Very righteous. My point was that these plans are coming out of ideas for stimulus. When people talk about relieving a burden on a business, bank or corporation (WHO ARE PEOPLE TOO/green) you will get the economic and the moral argument. And yet for this you only get the self-righteous I walked to school in the snow with 6 jobs and everyone else must be lazy i'm a hard worker crap. Who cares. In 5 years the people who graduate from college will be in thousands more debt than me. In just five years. The people who currently worked hard to graduate college and had to pay their way through, are in the worst job market in at least 30 years. With no signs of improving. But they should've realized that the banks were levereging 35:1 on a real estate market that was about to burst. Do you want to forever forgive people's debt? no. But when we are in a prolonged recession and people are thinking of ways to help, one thing that doesn't is immediately thinking of yourself as some 19th century rugged individualist because you have a damn car payment.

 

Gotcha, but I still don't see how this gets to the source of what you are seeing as the problem (college costing too much). All this does is shift the cost of the loans and education over to the government to pay for. Somebody has to pay for it. To me, it looks like you could make the same argument you are and advocate tax cuts for these same people so that they have more money to spend as a stimulus. But again, that does not hit the issue of the rise in college costs.

 

Even though I can see your point about this being a directed stimulus, I haven't seen anything that actually addresses the main issue. How about we hit whatever the root of the problem is and find ways to keep costs in check instead of throwing money that we don't have at it and watching the issue grow more and more?

[Balta1701]

If you're Obama or a Democrat in office, then yes.

The Obama administration has done jack sh*t to help people deal with mortgages.

[nitetrain8601]

So, what other debts should we relieve them of? Mortgages? Car Loans? Credit Card payments? Anything else? After all, they do need money to take out a loan to start a small business. Should we relieve them of that cost too?

 

I'd say no because those are still services or products which are still in use. It's silly to pay for school 20 years after you graduated if it's going to mean you get to spend as much as someone who didn't get their degree. Which is the whole purpose behind the idea of forgiving the debt.

 

Mortgages are paying for a house you still live in. Car Loans are for cars you still drive(well, hopefully you didn't get in an accident). Credit Card companies work with people in bad situations enough on their own, but they would be the only other thing I would consider relieving some of the debt back to stimulate the economy.

 

Unless you want to be something specifically and almost refuse to work if you're not doing what you love, you better have the money to go to school in your own pocket, or it's going to cost you big in the long run. That's the part that sucks. You want to educate yourselves further to help out the world by doing your part in whatever field you enter, but in the end, you get stuck with a crummy bill each month which rivals your mortgage or rent.

[southsider2k5]

I just want to know when a college degree became the point of entitlement, and not an investment in the rest of your life? If you know you have to spend $100,000 to make an extra million dollars over your lifetime, that pretty much clears it up for me.

[BigSqwert]

I just want to know when a college degree became the point of entitlement, and not an investment in the rest of your life? If you know you have to spend $100,000 to make an extra million dollars over your lifetime, that pretty much clears it up for me.

The interest on $100K loan over it's lifetime probably negates most of that million.

[southsider2k5]

The interest on $100K loan over it's lifetime probably negates most of that million.

 

Not even close.

[nitetrain8601]

I just want to know when a college degree became the point of entitlement, and not an investment in the rest of your life? If you know you have to spend $100,000 to make an extra million dollars over your lifetime, that pretty much clears it up for me.

 

Keep in mind, the opportunity cost lost in going to school full-time and bypassing any other jobs you could have obtained instead of going to college. They say time is money and it's true. Instead of wasting your time and paying the school for your education, you're missing out on you getting a job and earning money during those 4/5 years.

 

I agree, college is supposed to be an investment that pays off big. With the costs of college and the interest you have to pay back, it doesn't negative it completely, but a huge portion of that investment, at least for around 25 years(which is the term for most college students). Then they'll have probably 15-20 years of not having to pay that back if they pay it all back in time. That's a 25 year freeze on smart college grads being able to spend their big bucks to buy that big screen tv, to buy another car, to buy a bigger home a couple of expensive purses, etc.

 

College grads are not entitled to anything. No one is. But the system is supposed to be designed where higher education = more spending power. In today's economy, with jobs being so hard to obtain, with the recession going on, and with student loans up the wazoo, that system is not working as designed.

 

 

[Harry Chappas]

Keep in mind, the opportunity cost lost in going to school full-time and bypassing any other jobs you could have obtained instead of going to college. They say time is money and it's true. Instead of wasting your time and paying the school for your education, you're missing out on you getting a job and earning money during those 4/5 years.

 

I agree, college is supposed to be an investment that pays off big. With the costs of college and the interest you have to pay back, it doesn't negative it completely, but a huge portion of that investment, at least for around 25 years(which is the term for most college students). Then they'll have probably 15-20 years of not having to pay that back if they pay it all back in time. That's a 25 year freeze on smart college grads being able to spend their big bucks to buy that big screen tv, to buy another car, to buy a bigger home a couple of expensive purses, etc.

 

College grads are not entitled to anything. No one is. But the system is supposed to be designed where higher education = more spending power. In today's economy, with jobs being so hard to obtain, with the recession going on, and with student loans up the wazoo, that system is not working as designed.

 

If you work to put yourself through school this argument is not true.

 

I worked making $12/hour as a licensed forklift driver to put myself through UIC, got an accounting degree and doubled my pay upon graduation. As a CPA I make a much nicer living than a forklift driver.

 

I think making the right choices are important. My goal was 2 years of UIC and then transfer to U of I. I liked UIC and elected not to transfer. Saved a ton of dough.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2010 by Jenks Heat

[southsider2k5]

Keep in mind, the opportunity cost lost in going to school full-time and bypassing any other jobs you could have obtained instead of going to college. They say time is money and it's true. Instead of wasting your time and paying the school for your education, you're missing out on you getting a job and earning money during those 4/5 years.

 

I agree, college is supposed to be an investment that pays off big. With the costs of college and the interest you have to pay back, it doesn't negative it completely, but a huge portion of that investment, at least for around 25 years(which is the term for most college students). Then they'll have probably 15-20 years of not having to pay that back if they pay it all back in time. That's a 25 year freeze on smart college grads being able to spend their big bucks to buy that big screen tv, to buy another car, to buy a bigger home a couple of expensive purses, etc.

 

College grads are not entitled to anything. No one is. But the system is supposed to be designed where higher education = more spending power. In today's economy, with jobs being so hard to obtain, with the recession going on, and with student loans up the wazoo, that system is not working as designed.

 

The numbers are very clear, and all of that kind of stuff is factored in. By simply getting a bachelors degree, you earn about a million dollars more than someone with a HS diploma over a lifetime on average.

[iamshack]

I just want to know when a college degree became the point of entitlement, and not an investment in the rest of your life? If you know you have to spend $100,000 to make an extra million dollars over your lifetime, that pretty much clears it up for me.

When we were all told by our entire educational system that going to college was the next logical step in our education? When we were told that a college degree was necessary to fulfill the American dream?

 

I'm 32 years old, and at every step of my education, from about the age of 7 onward, it was beaten into my brain that in order to be a productive member of society, I should strive to achieve a college degree. There are entire propaganda campaigns, with as much involvement from the school and the community and parents to convince children to make it the goal of the first quarter of their life to achieve a college degree. Let's face it, when you're in the first quarter of your life, what are we told to accomplish more than a college degree?

 

This isn't like some decision I randomly came up with on my own, like joining a band, or taking up gymnastics. This is a brainwashing campaign that pervades pretty much all corners of our educational system and our society and culture.

 

From Generation X onward, we have been promised that a college education is the key to becoming successful, just as our forefathers were told that with hard work came an opportunity to succeed. Well, it's starting to look more and more like we were given an empty promise, and it's just a bit of a kick in the ass right now.

 

You can't have going to college and getting a degree be such a huge mantra in the molding of your youth and then bail on your promises and leave them holding the bag. That's just not right.

[The Beast]

College grads are not entitled to anything. No one is. But the system is supposed to be designed where higher education = more spending power. In today's economy, with jobs being so hard to obtain, with the recession going on, and with student loans up the wazoo, that system is not working as designed.

You're right, I'm not entitled to s***. Had I gone to school to be a journalist, I would not be entitled to work in the region that NU grads do (the jobs that people want as opposed to the crap others do) and there are far more qualified people out there than me. I have always thought that the college system is a mess - people go because if you don't, you're a loser. To be honest, I wish I would have gone to the community college for a year to get rid of the extra high school courses and take the remedial math course so I wouldn't get screwed in taking a liberal arts math course. It should be set up like, take your college algebra and then decide. Unfortunately, schools offer different math courses and it really screws you over when you switch your major.

 

As long as I obtain my degree and get a decent job, I'll feel like I got a good return on my investment.

 

If you work to put yourself through school this argument is not true.

 

I worked making $12/hour as a licensed forklift driver to put myself through UIC, got an accounting degree and doubled my pay upon graduation. As a CPA I make a much nicer living than a forklift driver.

 

I think making the right choices are important. My goal was 2 years of UIC and then transfer to U of I. I liked UIC and elected not to transfer. Saved a ton of dough.

And I think for some people it is beneficial to go to a local college for two years and work to get some responsibility before heading off to college. I see too many kids who are well off just treat college like a huge joke and then graduate. What about the rest of us who actually worked and struggled a bit along the way?

 

Don't mind my posts, I'm just a bitter college student who is frustrated with the system.

Edited February 3, 2010 by The Beast

[iamshack]

The numbers are very clear, and all of that kind of stuff is factored in. By simply getting a bachelors degree, you earn about a million dollars more than someone with a HS diploma over a lifetime on average.

Those have been the numbers. My feeling is they will change if we continue down this current path.

[Texsox]

I am willing to learn here. I have seen most lower skilled jobs being outsourced to foreign counties. Those that believe they will do better without a college degree, please tell me what fields will be growing over the next 20 years? Where will the better paying jobs be that will not require a college education?

 

That use to be manufacturing. Those jobs are leaving in a hurry.

[southsider2k5]

When we were all told by our entire educational system that going to college was the next logical step in our education? When we were told that a college degree was necessary to fulfill the American dream?

 

I'm 32 years old, and at every step of my education, from about the age of 7 onward, it was beaten into my brain that in order to be a productive member of society, I should strive to achieve a college degree. There are entire propaganda campaigns, with as much involvement from the school and the community and parents to convince children to make it the goal of the first quarter of their life to achieve a college degree. Let's face it, when you're in the first quarter of your life, what are we told to accomplish more than a college degree?

 

This isn't like some decision I randomly came up with on my own, like joining a band, or taking up gymnastics. This is a brainwashing campaign that pervades pretty much all corners of our educational system and our society and culture.

 

From Generation X onward, we have been promised that a college education is the key to becoming successful, just as our forefathers were told that with hard work came an opportunity to succeed. Well, it's starting to look more and more like we were given an empty promise, and it's just a bit of a kick in the ass right now.

 

You can't have going to college and getting a degree be such a huge mantra in the molding of your youth and then bail on your promises and leave them holding the bag. That's just not right.

 

It is the key to earning more in your life. Also no one has ever said it would be free. We are into the second generation of industrial and manufacturing flight out of this country. This isn't a new thing.

[southsider2k5]

Those have been the numbers. My feeling is they will change if we continue down this current path.

 

Not a chance. I'd bet the gap opens up, as less and less people are willing to hire those with a high school diploma.

[Texsox]

Not a chance. I'd bet the gap opens up, as less and less people are willing to hire those with a high school diploma.

 

 

Especially when most of the work force has college degrees. Even if college degrees become a dime a dozen, it will be prefered to a High School diploma.

[Soxbadger]

More people want to go to college.

 

There are the same amount of good colleges.

 

Therefore college tuition will continue to increase until there is a decrease in supply of college applicants or demand for higher education.

 

If college isnt worth as much, why are more people applying to college and graduate schools each year?

 

I know that I wouldnt have my job without my degrees, you cant have my job without it.

 

I dont like how much college costs, but I understand its a competitive market.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

More people want to go to college.

 

There are the same amount of good colleges.

 

Therefore college tuition will continue to increase until there is a decrease in supply of college applicants or demand for higher education.

 

If college isnt worth as much, why are more people applying to college and graduate schools each year?

 

I know that I wouldnt have my job without my degrees, you cant have my job without it.

 

I dont like how much college costs, but I understand its a competitive market.

 

Add to that, the amount of money given out by the government and banks pushing the demand curve out, and you get something that out-performs inflation by a longshot.

[iamshack]

It is the key to earning more in your life. Also no one has ever said it would be free. We are into the second generation of industrial and manufacturing flight out of this country. This isn't a new thing.

Again, where am I arguing anything should be free?

 

The other point I am trying to get across here, is that if we continue down this path, it will not be the key to earning more in your life. It will be a wasted investment.

[iamshack]

Especially when most of the work force has college degrees. Even if college degrees become a dime a dozen, it will be prefered to a High School diploma.

You guys are looking at this from a different perspective.

 

The argument is not so much whether those with college degrees who are appropriately employed according to their skillset will earn more money.

 

I would love to see some unemployment figures for twentysomethings with and without college degrees.