Forgive Student Loan Debt to Stimulate the Economy

[iamshack]

I don't care, never did I say they were. I don't think going to a trade should be included as someone who just finished high school and did nothing else. There is a big difference than graduating from high school and than working at Walmart as a cashier than there is graduating high school working with someone in the field during high school and continuing that on during the next few years and becoming a very skilled tradesmen.

 

In America we should be pushing people two ways...into an established trade program or into college.

Is the price of learning a trade similar to that of college tuition?

[bmags]

Ok, I buy that... but where or how did you learn it?

 

This is a memoir answer.

[kapkomet]

This is a memoir answer.

 

 

Chicken.

 

But seriously, can you not see what I was trying to get to there? Is it fair to say that you learned a lot of your critical reasoning in the late stages of high school and early college? I understand that "life" teaches you that as well. But purely from a "learning what you don't know" standpoint and the ability to reason through something, I would say that general curriculum helps with that. Maybe, we're saying the same thing, I don't know.

[bmags]

Chicken.

 

But seriously, can you not see what I was trying to get to there? Is it fair to say that you learned a lot of your critical reasoning in the late stages of high school and early college? I understand that "life" teaches you that as well. But purely from a "learning what you don't know" standpoint and the ability to reason through something, I would say that general curriculum helps with that. Maybe, we're saying the same thing, I don't know.

 

I'm not saying that gen-eds are useless, I'm saying that they are overdone. I don't think that they should take up 70% of the education, and really, they do. They are also very inflexible about what you need, when I think ....basically i'm just really pissed I got capped off on econ classes and had to waste 2000.

[lostfan]

I was pretty pissed when I had to take a literature class when I thought I was done with English classes. God I hated that class so much and I gained zero from it except 4 months of misery. I was cool with taking another elective but I hated being told that I had to choose from THAT narrow range of classes.

[kapkomet]

I'm not saying that gen-eds are useless, I'm saying that they are overdone. I don't think that they should take up 70% of the education, and really, they do. They are also very inflexible about what you need, when I think ....basically i'm just really pissed I got capped off on econ classes and had to waste 2000.

 

 

The truth comes out... ! AH HA!

 

70%? Really? I'd say it was more like 30% for me, and I went to a peace hippy loving school. But I do understand your point if you were oversaturated with that stuff. I wouldn't want to take philosophy100/200/300 ... I'd murder someone by that point.

[bmags]

2 years of geneds = 50%, then 6/15 hrs electives for 2 years...is probably about 70% if not more.

[StrangeSox]

No, because a trade is a degree. It isn't anything less than that. I got a degree in accounting/finance so I could go into that. In the trade world, you usually are an apprentice for a few years, hone your craft, and get good and at that point hopefully become a contractor or master craftsmen, etc. That time you are learning is when you are essentially earning your degree in your skill so that you can be on your own one day.

 

Just like I went to school to learn accounting so I could be on my own one day.

 

A degree from here or learning a trade is no different. Remember, trades involve getting certifications too.

they are completely different for the discussion.

[kapkomet]

2 years of geneds = 50%, then 6/15 hrs electives for 2 years...is probably about 70% if not more.

 

 

Wow. That's pretty rare, I would think. Can I ask a stupid question (sure, I do it all the time!!! ) - did you know your major right away? Was that part of it?

 

I guess I'm fishing here because it seems to me that when I think back to my program, I was geared toward business and finance stuff even my soph. year. Of course, I had to take music, philosophy, etc. And even though I hated philosophy, and the biggest hippie ever taught it, I can clearly understand why that was in the curriculum, looking back. Back then, I thought, WTF am I having to do THIS CRAP for? But it's a way to create critical thought and diversity.

[southsider2k5]

Wow. That's pretty rare, I would think. Can I ask a stupid question (sure, I do it all the time!!! ) - did you know your major right away? Was that part of it?

 

I guess I'm fishing here because it seems to me that when I think back to my program, I was geared toward business and finance stuff even my soph. year. Of course, I had to take music, philosophy, etc. And even though I hated philosophy, and the biggest hippie ever taught it, I can clearly understand why that was in the curriculum, looking back. Back then, I thought, WTF am I having to do THIS CRAP for? But it's a way to create critical thought and diversity.

 

Don't EVER justify philosophy. That class needs to die in a fire.

[nitetrain8601]

At UIC, about half my curriculum was gen ed courses. I agree, they are severely overdone.

[bmags]

Wow. That's pretty rare, I would think. Can I ask a stupid question (sure, I do it all the time!!! ) - did you know your major right away? Was that part of it?

 

I guess I'm fishing here because it seems to me that when I think back to my program, I was geared toward business and finance stuff even my soph. year. Of course, I had to take music, philosophy, etc. And even though I hated philosophy, and the biggest hippie ever taught it, I can clearly understand why that was in the curriculum, looking back. Back then, I thought, WTF am I having to do THIS CRAP for? But it's a way to create critical thought and diversity.

 

well, okay.. let me do the math

0/5 first semester

1/5 second semester *bulls*** j class

1/5 first semester

2/5 second semester

1/4 first

2/5

2/5

1/5

 

those are all the j classes. Now granted for journalism they might make us take more electives because there are only so many j classes you can take before it's redundant, and one "three hour" course, the newspaper one, has you actually workinga t the paper for 25-40 hrs. a week. So with that, I think they were too inflexible. I would have rather taken a s*** ton more humanities (for writing) and upper level sciences (for logic) than having to deal with sociology and psychology courses. I "minored" in polisci but i didn't even bother to actually put it on my degree b/c who the f*** cares.

[kapkomet]

well, okay.. let me do the math

0/5 first semester

1/5 second semester *bulls*** j class

1/5 first semester

2/5 second semester

1/4 first

2/5

2/5

1/5

 

those are all the j classes. Now granted for journalism they might make us take more electives because there are only so many j classes you can take before it's redundant, and one "three hour" course, the newspaper one, has you actually workinga t the paper for 25-40 hrs. a week. So with that, I think they were too inflexible. I would have rather taken a s*** ton more humanities (for writing) and upper level sciences (for logic) than having to deal with sociology and psychology courses. I "minored" in polisci but i didn't even bother to actually put it on my degree b/c who the f*** cares.

 

That makes sense. With that part of it I can see your frustration... because now you're just learning the same thing with a minor twist. That gets harder to justify with what we're talking about.

[Texsox]

I know how to read reports. I know how to read statistics. It doesn't matter the topic.

 

Which J-course taught you those skills?

[bmags]

A pro-college argument:

 

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives...y-education.php

[DukeNukeEm]

Departments need a nice steady source of money flowing in and geneds are a pretty effective way of accomplishing it. I didn't like my general courses, I still dont... but I understand the rationale and play the game.

[Texsox]

That is simply not true.

 

Sometimes they do not want to allocate the money in their budget for a college graduate, so they simply do not respond to college graduates who apply..

 

 

I was thinking about this, they also would not respond to the high school diploma with 10 years experience, who would ask for more money.