Official 2010-2011 NCAA Football Thread

[iamshack]

Who said Northwestern is better than Boise?

 

 

If that is what you've walked away with after all the discussion about this topic then it is really pointless to discuss this further.

 

 

 

I'll try to make it brief since I dont have the energy to get into a long discussion right now.

 

Boise plays in a conference where for 7 games they place a "C" game and win. If a team like Ohio St,Iowa,Wisconsin plays a "C" game vs an Illinois,Northwestern,Purdue then they probably lose.

 

Boise plays in a conference where they dont have to worry about sleep walking for 3 quarters and then realize they are in a dogfight for the final 15 minutes.

 

 

I remember a Miami game in 2002(season they lost to OSU) and Ken Dorsey was playing with a broken hand(non throwing) and they were at a 1-7 Rutgers team. The game was 17-14 Rutgers going into the 4th quarter. Miami won 42-17. Boise never has to worry about not showing up for a game and being in danger of losing to a bottom feeder in the WAC. That cant be said for top teams in major conferences.

Well, that's not always true...TCU found itself in a tough battle with SD State a few weeks ago...but yes, you are largely correct for the most part....

 

This reason alone, however, is not enough to simply disqualify teams from weaker conferences from the National Championship discussion.

[Jenksismyhero]

Who said Northwestern is better than Boise?

 

 

If that is what you've walked away with after all the discussion about this topic then it is really pointless to discuss this further.

 

 

 

I'll try to make it brief since I dont have the energy to get into a long discussion right now.

 

Boise plays in a conference where for 7 games they place a "C" game and win. If a team like Ohio St,Iowa,Wisconsin plays a "C" game vs an Illinois,Northwestern,Purdue then they probably lose.

 

Boise plays in a conference where they dont have to worry about sleep walking for 3 quarters and then realize they are in a dogfight for the final 15 minutes.

 

 

I remember a Miami game in 2002(season they lost to OSU) and Ken Dorsey was playing with a broken hand(non throwing) and they were at a 1-7 Rutgers team. The game was 17-14 Rutgers going into the 4th quarter. Miami won 42-17. Boise never has to worry about not showing up for a game and being in danger of losing to a bottom feeder in the WAC. That cant be said for top teams in major conferences.

 

The implication is that anyone in the big ten is vastly superior to anyone in the wac (hence why, despite actual statistical models proving otherwise, you keep saying how top big ten teams have such a tougher schedule to go through).

 

And again, explain to me how illinois, minnesota, indiana, northwestern, purdue, etc are THAT much better than the WAC teams. GMAB. No one is claiming that the WAC is a better conference. The argument is that when a team plays 2-3 tough games against quality competition, and has a cupcake schedule the rest of the way, it's not THAT much different than a BCS type schedule.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Jenksismybitch

[zenryan]

The implication is that anyone in the big ten is vastly superior to anyone in the wac (hence why, despite actual statistical models proving otherwise, you keep saying how top big ten teams have such a tougher schedule to go through).

 

And again, explain to me how illinois, minnesota, indiana, northwestern, purdue, etc are THAT much better than the WAC teams. GMAB. No one is claiming that the WAC is a better conference. The argument is that when a team plays 2-3 tough games against quality competition, and has a cupcake schedule the rest of the way, it's not THAT much different than a BCS type schedule.

 

 

 

Well for starters, WAC teams not named Boise St went 2-8 vs the BCS this season.The wins were over 4-7 Cincy and 5-7 Cal.

 

Hawaii who went 7-1 in the WAC has BCS losses by 13 to USC and 18 to Colorado. Minnesota also has an 11 point loss to USC but they also own a win over Iowa. That just goes to show you the bottom feeders of the Big 10 are capable of pulling off an upset against the top tier teams while WAC top tier teams best wins are against below average BCS teams. If the WAC wants respect then they need to start winning more than 20% of their games vs BCS opponents and start mixing in some upsets.

 

 

[bmags]

I'm so f***ing sick of Mizzou getting passed over in bowl time.

[Dick Allen]

The implication is that anyone in the big ten is vastly superior to anyone in the wac (hence why, despite actual statistical models proving otherwise, you keep saying how top big ten teams have such a tougher schedule to go through).

 

And again, explain to me how illinois, minnesota, indiana, northwestern, purdue, etc are THAT much better than the WAC teams. GMAB. No one is claiming that the WAC is a better conference. The argument is that when a team plays 2-3 tough games against quality competition, and has a cupcake schedule the rest of the way, it's not THAT much different than a BCS type schedule.

There's a huge difference. If Boise State made it through a Big Ten season unscathed, they would have every right to play for the national championship. Not with the schedule they play. Its a cupcake schedule. Virginia Tech was a good team they beat, on a neutral site. But Virginia Tech wasn't very good when they played them, in fact they lost to James Madison the next week. Oregon State was ranked 24th when they played them. A home game. Then they lose to the only other ranked team they played. Ohio State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, would roll Boise State and would all have been undefeated had they played the same schedule. A lot of teams would be. There's a big difference going into Iowa City than Las Cruces NM. NU isn't as bad as most think. When Persa was healthy, they had a good team. If Boise State plays poorly against ILL or NU or just about any Big 10 team, they would lose. Thats not the case with the WAC.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Palehosefan]

NCAA clears Cam Newton

 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/12...cam_newton.html

 

 

Rex Hudler tells Palehosefan to F himself.

[dasox24]

NCAA clears Cam Newton

 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/12...cam_newton.html

 

 

Rex Hudler tells Palehosefan to F himself.

Interesting ruling by the NCAA. So it's okay for parents to shop their kids as long as the kid doesn't know about it? That sets a horrible standard.

[Palehosefan]

Interesting ruling by the NCAA. So it's okay for parents to shop their kids as long as the kid doesn't know about it? That sets a horrible standard.

 

I didn't thoroughly read it until about 10 minutes after I posted it. It's a pretty horrendous ruling. I guess it's ok to cheat as long as you are in a national title hunt.

[dasox24]

I didn't thoroughly read it until about 10 minutes after I posted it. It's a pretty horrendous ruling. I guess it's ok to cheat as long as you are in a national title hunt.

Yeah, the NCAA is a joke... but I guess we've always known that.

 

I guess AJ Green's dad could have sold his jersey and he wouldn't have been suspended for 4 games this year.

[Soxbadger]

Without evidence that Cam knew what his father was up to, this was the only possible outcome. Because there were no allegations that Auburn was a part of this, you cant punish the school either.

[nitetrain8601]

Meh, I could see both sides of the argument, but this opens up flood gates. Just let your parents handle the money and you'll be fine.

[ZoomSlowik]

Meh, I could see both sides of the argument, but this opens up flood gates. Just let your parents handle the money and you'll be fine.

 

I wouldn't go that far. If they had any evidence that money changed hands or that there were discussions of pay-for-play that involved Auburn, he'd have probably been ineligible.

[Soxbadger]

Exactly.

 

The problem was that the allegations were for wrong doing with Miss St. From all accounts Auburn had nothing to do with it. How can you penalize Auburn for something that Miss St was involved with?

 

[zenryan]

Exactly.

 

The problem was that the allegations were for wrong doing with Miss St. From all accounts Auburn had nothing to do with it. How can you penalize Auburn for something that Miss St was involved with?

 

 

 

So we're suppose to believe that Newton's dad was shopping his son around but decided that he didnt want any money and send his son to Auburn? If he didnt want any money, you'd think he would have sent him to Miss St since Cam liked Mullen.

 

 

I think this is a case of the NCAA just trying to end the speculation of a player headed into possibly the national title game. I'd be shocked if the NCAA isnt doing more investigating come this summer into Newton and Auburn.

[Soxbadger]

Youre not supposed to believe anything. But at this point in time the NCAA does not have enough information to say there was wrong doing by Auburn or Cam Newton.

 

Furthermore no one is going to really push the issue because the SEC/NCAA dont want to lose Auburn potentially being in the NC game. A NC game between Oregon-TCU or Oregon-Stanford will most likely be less profitable than Auburn-Oregon.

 

So the NCAA/SEC decide to let Newton play the remainder of the season and investigate further. My guess is that eventually none of these wins will count and all records will be vacated.

 

But the NCAA/SEC will have their money, Cam will have his money in the NFL, and no one will care besides the record books.

[nitetrain8601]

Youre not supposed to believe anything. But at this point in time the NCAA does not have enough information to say there was wrong doing by Auburn or Cam Newton.

 

Furthermore no one is going to really push the issue because the SEC/NCAA dont want to lose Auburn potentially being in the NC game. A NC game between Oregon-TCU or Oregon-Stanford will most likely be less profitable than Auburn-Oregon.

 

So the NCAA/SEC decide to let Newton play the remainder of the season and investigate further. My guess is that eventually none of these wins will count and all records will be vacated.

 

But the NCAA/SEC will have their money, Cam will have his money in the NFL, and no one will care besides the record books.

 

This is the argument I think he tried to make. I'm 95% sure that Cam knew about it and money switched sides. At the same time, they're not going to destroy the money maker themselves. Now if Auburn loses on Saturday, you may see everything come out. Until then, expect wins to be vacated down the line.

 

This brings me to my next argument, what's the point of having awards if in the end, players and teams are going to be ineligible for them?

Edited December 2, 2010 by nitetrain8601

[Rex Hudler]

NCAA clears Cam Newton

 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/12...cam_newton.html

 

 

Rex Hudler tells Palehosefan to F himself.

 

LOL

[Rex Hudler]

Yeah, the NCAA is a joke... but I guess we've always known that.

 

I guess AJ Green's dad could have sold his jersey and he wouldn't have been suspended for 4 games this year.

 

Actually there is a difference..

 

In your scenario money changed hands. In this case, the only thing establised is there was talk, but no proof of any kind money changed hands. So if AJ Green's dad offered his jersey for $1000 but never sold it, there would not be an issue. Also, keep in mind that these are allegations about Newton's father asking for money from a school other than the one he is playing for. And before you assume, don't forget that Oklahoma has gone on record that there was nothing out of the ordinary with Cam's recruitment.

 

That said this is technically a loophole in the NCAA bylaws/interpretations. Expect it to get closed with a new rule very quickly, which will keep this from becoming a precedent. JMO

 

Lastly, this is simply an ineligibility ruling based on Auburn's investigation presentation to the NCAA. Should more details come out or the NCAA find anything pointing to Auburn while they investigate the allegations with his father and MSU there will certainly be repurcussions. There is still a possibility much more can come of this. All I think today's ruling states is that facts are more important than inuuendo and assumption and to this point, the facts are as they ruled. So it could be far from over.

 

 

[Rex Hudler]

So we're suppose to believe that Newton's dad was shopping his son around but decided that he didnt want any money and send his son to Auburn? If he didnt want any money, you'd think he would have sent him to Miss St since Cam liked Mullen.

 

 

I think this is a case of the NCAA just trying to end the speculation of a player headed into possibly the national title game. I'd be shocked if the NCAA isnt doing more investigating come this summer into Newton and Auburn.

 

Is it not POSSIBLE that Kenny Rodgers the "agent" that played for MSU, tried to get a big score for his school by telling Cecil Newton he could get him money and it didn't have to be for free this time? Cecil indicated an openness to it and went along. Once that fell through and he didn't get anything from Miss St, he moved on and realized the best place for Cam was at Auburn?

 

I'm not saying that is what happened, but it IS possible. As Soxbadger has stated, until all the facts are known they can only go on what they do know as fact.

[Rex Hudler]

My last post tonight on the matter...

 

Here is my understanding on what happened today.

 

The NCAA is investigating the allegations involving Cecil Newton, Kenny Rodgers and Miss St. That is ongoing and has nothing to do with this ruling.

Auburn turned their investigation over to the NCAA this week and declared Newton ineligible and requested a ruling and reinstatement. The NCAA made their ruling based on what they KNOW and the investigation Auburn presented.

 

From what I heard today, it is not uncommon for the NCAA to make quick rulings on player eligibility when the issue arises during the season. If before or after the season, they tend to take their sweet assed time. This is just a very high profile case. Apparently, there are many eligibility cased presented each year in all sports and the NCAA rules quickly in many of them. This came from a couple of attorneys that have experience dealing with the NCAA.

 

Today's ruling was more procedural than investigative. More could still come down the pike, but with a game Saturday, the NCAA was forced to act quickly. The attorneys interviewed indicated this was selective timing from Auburn and the best possible scenario.

[dasox24]

Actually there is a difference..

 

In your scenario money changed hands. In this case, the only thing establised is there was talk, but no proof of any kind money changed hands. So if AJ Green's dad offered his jersey for $1000 but never sold it, there would not be an issue. Also, keep in mind that these are allegations about Newton's father asking for money from a school other than the one he is playing for. And before you assume, don't forget that Oklahoma has gone on record that there was nothing out of the ordinary with Cam's recruitment.

 

That said this is technically a loophole in the NCAA bylaws/interpretations. Expect it to get closed with a new rule very quickly, which will keep this from becoming a precedent. JMO

 

Lastly, this is simply an ineligibility ruling based on Auburn's investigation presentation to the NCAA. Should more details come out or the NCAA find anything pointing to Auburn while they investigate the allegations with his father and MSU there will certainly be repurcussions. There is still a possibility much more can come of this. All I think today's ruling states is that facts are more important than inuuendo and assumption and to this point, the facts are as they ruled. So it could be far from over.

How dare you respond with rational thoughts...

 

Part of the reason I wish Cam would get suspended stems to one of my roommates being a huge, life-long Auburn fan and I am so sick of listening to all his bulls***. It would give me no greater pleasure than to have Cam suspended (and Auburn exposed) to shut him up. He's so damn arrogant and cocky about how Auburn is unstoppable, blah blah blah. I'm like "Dude, you don't even go to school there." Plus, Cam annoys the hell out of me when he plays. Always smiling & acting like he's so f***ing good (I mean, he is an awesome player but I hate when guys act all big and bad - just shut up and play football).

 

And that stuff he pulls when he lays on the ground for a few seconds every time he gets tackled, making it look like he might be hurt or something... but then he pops up off the ground and has that huge smirk on his face. GTFO, Cam. Just get up and go back to the huddle. No need to make a huge scene at the end of every play.

[Capn12]

It is fairly simple IMO. If your amateur status is put in jeopardy, the team you are on has no bearing, well shouldn't. Who cares what team paid/didn't pay/agreed to pay, blah blah blah...if you are linked to a pay-for-play scheme, whether you were directly involved or not, your amateur status is in jeopardy.

 

The NCAA, as always, protects its cash cow for now, and opens itself up for a very slippery slope of what is right and wrong.

 

No matter, I'd rather beat the fkers with $cam Newton playing this Saturday, anyways.

[Rex Hudler]

How dare you respond with rational thoughts...

 

Part of the reason I wish Cam would get suspended stems to one of my roommates being a huge, life-long Auburn fan and I am so sick of listening to all his bulls***. It would give me no greater pleasure than to have Cam suspended (and Auburn exposed) to shut him up. He's so damn arrogant and cocky about how Auburn is unstoppable, blah blah blah. I'm like "Dude, you don't even go to school there." Plus, Cam annoys the hell out of me when he plays. Always smiling & acting like he's so f***ing good (I mean, he is an awesome player but I hate when guys act all big and bad - just shut up and play football).

 

And that stuff he pulls when he lays on the ground for a few seconds every time he gets tackled, making it look like he might be hurt or something... but then he pops up off the ground and has that huge smirk on his face. GTFO, Cam. Just get up and go back to the huddle. No need to make a huge scene at the end of every play.

 

Does he lay on the ball all the time? I have only noticed it in the 4th quarter when they were ahead as if he was trying to milk a few more seconds off the clock. But I wasn't really looking for it either. I noticed he did it late in the Bama game after they got the lead.

 

As far as fans go I guess a lot depends on your own biases and team. Personally I find Auburn fans 10x more bearable than Alabama fans. Auburn fans to me come across as excited about their team. Alabama fans in general act as if it is their God-given right to go to the NC game or at least a BCS Bowl.

 

 

[RockRaines]

Redhawks!!!! MAC champs. Take that Huskies.

[LittleHurt05]

Redhawks!!!! MAC champs. Take that Huskies.

 

Wife's a Redhawk grad, great game!!!