Sox #2 hitters saw lowest % of fastballs last year

[Fotop]

Don't want to post the exact quote from Buster Olney's blog today, but thought this stat was interesting.

 

Off the top of my head, don't have an idea who was hitting for us in the two hole for most of last year (short term memory loss I suppose) and presume the reason for this is that our #3/#4 hitters weren't feared.

 

Thoughts on this?

[iamshack]

Don't want to post the exact quote from Buster Olney's blog today, but thought this stat was interesting.

 

Off the top of my head, don't have an idea who was hitting for us in the two hole for most of last year (short term memory loss I suppose) and presume the reason for this is that our #3/#4 hitters weren't feared.

 

Thoughts on this?

AJ, Alexei, Gordo.

[caulfield12]

HMM....

 

I think it says more about the lack of speed and a baserunning threat, especially in the first half of the season. If you don't fear the runner (like opposing pitchers did with Pods in 2005), then there's no reason to throw the #2 hitter fastballs unless behind in the count.

 

Alexei really struggled with breaking stuff for most of the season...that would be another reason.

 

Konerko was solid for most of the season, but yeah, if you had 2008 Quentin and first half 2009 Dye behind the 2 hitter, that changes things, too.

Edited February 5, 2010 by caulfield12

[daa84]

AJ, Alexei, Gordo.

i'd be interested to see how the break down was....I would have to imagine that AJ and Alexei saw tons of breaking balls. I know I certainly wouldn't throw a first pitch fastball to either of those guys

[ChiSox_Sonix]

If Pierre can get on base at a decent clip that number will surely rise.

[scenario]

Alexei really struggled with breaking stuff for most of the season...that would be another reason.

 

That would be my guess.

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

If Pierre can get on base at a decent clip that number will surely rise.

So, what you're saying is that this clip is not going to rise.

[Balta1701]

i'd be interested to see how the break down was....I would have to imagine that AJ and Alexei saw tons of breaking balls. I know I certainly wouldn't throw a first pitch fastball to either of those guys

I think a whole lot of this stat relates to Alexei. There was one point I recall one of our annoucers saying on a pitch to Alexei early in the season "Curveball, strike, Alexei looked like he'd never seen a breaking ball before"

[southsideirish71]

The approach that has been successful for years against the sox is to junkball our hitters and let them get themselves out. Fastball pitchers never had a chance. Thats why we would see our guys light up some stud pitcher who threw 100 and then get 1 hit the next night by some 7 ERA bum lofting cookies. Lets see if this years group does a better job at the handling the bat. With this crew they need to hit line drives and go gap to gap for the most part. We will see what happens.

 

I just hope that our number 2 hitter gets to actually hit and not be a glorified bunter.

 

Edited February 5, 2010 by southsideirish71

[daa84]

The approach that has been successful for years against the sox is to junkball our hitters and let them get themselves out. Fastball pitchers never had a chance. Thats why we would see our guys light up some stud pitcher who threw 100 and then get 1 hit the next night by some 7 ERA bum lofting cookies. Lets see if this years group does a better job at the handling the bat. With this crew they need to hit line drives and go gap to gap for the most part. We will see what happens.

I just hope that our number 2 hitter gets to actually hit and not be a glorified bunter.

couldn't agree more....and you know ozzies going to have that temptation with pierre on....I'll really be upset if thats the case with beckham batting 2.

 

though i have to think that ozzie will bat vizquel #2 just about everytime he plays, and it will be bunt and run all day with pierre and vizquel...at least this year i have hope that the bunt will actually get placed down though...the only thing thats worse than an ill advised sac bunt, is an ill advised sac bunt that doesn't get down

Edited February 5, 2010 by daa84

[Balta1701]

I just hope that our number 2 hitter gets to actually hit and not be a glorified bunter.

Our #2 hitter to start the season is probably going to be Beckham, IMO.

[Knackattack]

Our #2 hitter to start the season is probably going to be Beckham, IMO.

I have read a couple times that Rios is gonna start up there.

[earthshiner]

AJ, Alexei, Gordo.

Ramirez-63

Beckham-56

Fields-24

 

AJ only had one game there

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CH...ng-orders.shtml

[lostfan]

You're pretty much a dumbass if you throw Alexei a first pitch fastball and you deserve to get burned.

[Kalapse]

I think a whole lot of this stat relates to Alexei. There was one point I recall one of our annoucers saying on a pitch to Alexei early in the season "Curveball, strike, Alexei looked like he'd never seen a breaking ball before"

This is it right here. It has nothing to do with a lack of a true base stealing threat at the top, it's all about individual scouting reports. Scott Podsednik got on base at a decent clip last year and was more than willing to attempt to steal second -- even to a fault -- and yet our #2 hitter's FB% took a precipitous drop after the first month of and a half of the season when Podsednik took over the leadoff duties from the Getz/Lillibridge constituency. Why? Well it certainly wasn't a possible downgrade in stolen base threat in the #1 spot, Getz wasn't exactly a high volume base stealer; he only attempted 4 SB in his brief role as leadoff man (18 GS, .350 OBP) whereas Podsednik quickly solidified himself as a threat to run with 5 attempted steals in his first 7 games as the team's new leadoff hitter. Pods finished with a .355 OBP, 41 attempted SB and 11 times picked off in 119 GS as the leadoff man, this is a baserunner that the opponent's battery had to keep a close eye on.

 

What changed in mid May was the installation of Alexei Ramirez as the team's 2 hole hitter taking over the reins from Josh Fields. A mere 51% of the total pitches Alexei saw last season were fastballs good for 6th fewest in all of baseball whereas Josh Fields saw a hefty percentage of fastballs at 62.5% that would have put him in the top 25 percentile had he reached qualified status. It's a tale of two hitters who are complete opposites, in '08 Alexei Ramirez proved that he can easily catch up to major league heat but consistently looked baffled by any kind of offspeed pitch (aside from the occasional hanging curve) and this carried over to the 2009 season. Josh Fields on the other hand couldn't come within a half foot of a pitch that top 88 MPH, teams quickly picked up on this and served him nothing but the express. Beckham on the other hand was rather average at a 58% FB% since he showed that he could pretty much hit anything. So the incredible disparity comes from the 280 PA Alexei saw in the 2 hole.

 

Juan Pierre swiping 70 bases next year isn't going to amount to a rise in the #2 hitter's FB% if the player plugged in to said role doesn't prove that he can hit a f***ing breaking ball. Believe it or not but pitchers aren't so frightened of a base stealer taking second that they're going to groove fastball after fastball against a fastball hitter in an attempt to keep the speed demon at bay. If this were the case Evan Longoria wouldn't have been near the bottom of the league in FB% with Carl Crawford and his 76 stolen base attempts on base ahead of him 36% of the time last season.

[whitesoxfan101]

I have read a couple times that Rios is gonna start up there.

 

That would not be a surprise. Ozzie didn't want a real DH, why would he want a guy taylor made to hit #2 in the order like Beckham there when he can hit a guy who was below the mendoza line for us last year in that spot instead?

Edited February 5, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[heirdog]

Pierre may not be the reason Alexei sees breaking balls but because Alexei sees breaking balls, Pierre will have an easier time stealing bases at a higher clip. So Alexei should bat second.

[SoxAce]

That would not be a surprise. Ozzie didn't want a real DH, why would he want a guy taylor made to hit #2 in the order like Beckham there when he can hit a guy who was below the mendoza line for us last year in that spot instead?

 

Well to be fair, if Rios or Alexei is #2 and Beckham is hitting 3rd/5th, I wouldn't mind it at all. I actually like Alexei and Rios up there if they can get on base, but Beckham right now is the perfect candidate. I will throw a hissy fit if I see .317 OBP A.J. Pierzynski hitting up there though. All of this will be moot though if Pierre doesn't get on base consistently. God, what I would do to get Denard Span on our team.

[Kalapse]

Pierre may not be the reason Alexei sees breaking balls but because Alexei sees breaking balls, Pierre will have an easier time stealing bases at a higher clip. So Alexei should bat second.

How about the fact that Alexei is probably the team's worst bunter and would be asked to bunt near every time Pierre reaches bases in our new NL designed offense?

[SoxAce]

How about the fact that Alexei is probably the team's worst bunter and would be asked to bunt near every time Pierre reaches bases in our new NL designed offense?

 

Sad isn't it? Coupled with the fact that Beckham, prior to being drafted, has never bunted in his life before being called up and we got ourselves Corpseball...er...Ozzieball.

[dmbjeff]

How about the fact that Alexei is probably the team's worst bunter and would be asked to bunt near every time Pierre reaches bases in our new NL designed offense?

 

With Pierre's speed, there is no reason we need to bunt him over to 2nd on the times he reaches 1st base. That's insane. He should be getting on base, have the 2nd place hitter work the count and have Pierre on 2nd base 80% of the time via a SB. Then the #2,#3 and #4 hitters all have a shot to get him in. That is ideal, I don't see alot of bunting from the 2 hole this season.

[Balta1701]

Well to be fair, if Rios or Alexei is #2 and Beckham is hitting 3rd/5th, I wouldn't mind it at all. I actually like Alexei and Rios up there if they can get on base, but Beckham right now is the perfect candidate. I will throw a hissy fit if I see .317 OBP A.J. Pierzynski hitting up there though. All of this will be moot though if Pierre doesn't get on base consistently. God, what I would do to get Denard Span on our team.

The good news is...AJ and Pierre are both lefties, so the odds of Ozzie hitting them back to back is low.

 

However, when Pierre gets hurt and Vizquel takes over the full time DH duties...

[Kalapse]

With Pierre's speed, there is no reason we need to bunt him over to 2nd on the times he reaches 1st base. That's insane. He should be getting on base, have the 2nd place hitter work the count and have Pierre on 2nd base 80% of the time via a SB. Then the #2,#3 and #4 hitters all have a shot to get him in. That is ideal, I don't see alot of bunting from the 2 hole this season.

75%

 

And tell that to Ozzie, he's the one that had an American League power hitting ballclub put down 47 sac bunts last season (that doesn't even count all the failures that resulted in 2 strike counts, you can probably double the 47 to account for this) including 8 by Alexei Ramirez and now that we have a quicker more "versatile" team that fits more to his '03 Marlins mold I don't think there's any doubt you're going to see the attempted bunts increase in 2010.

 

If you're looking for a 2 hitter that can work the count and hit behind in the count (when he takes 2 strikes waiting for Pierre to run) then Alexei is in no way your man, you're asking an incredibly impatient hitter (3.45 pit/pa, well below average) to take 3 pitches waiting for Pierre to get the right pitch to run on then have probably your worst breaking ball hitter attempt to make contact on a 1-2 slider off the plate or curve in the dirt. In our new NL style offense Alexei is best suited around 7th where he doesn't have to worry about playing small ball.

[hitlesswonder]

And tell that to Ozzie, he's the one that had an American League power hitting ballclub put down 47 sac bunts last season.

 

The Sox are adopting an offensive philosophy in which the worst hitter on the team (Pierre) will get the most at-bats and possibly the best hitter on the team (Beckham) will have the bat repeatedly taken out of his hands when lays down bunts to move Pierre to 2B. That's slightly less dumb than picking a DH based the ability to play defense, but it still a pretty bad idea.

Edited February 5, 2010 by hitlesswonder

[knightni]

Pods was #3 in the majors of all mlb hitters who were not swinging at pitches in the strike zone last year.