Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[balfanman]

If Detroit and the White Sox offer similar money, my bet is Damon picks the Sox. He wants to play for a bigger payday in 2011, ala Bobby Abreu. To do that, he needs to put up good numbers [the Cell would be better for him than Det.] and the larger market of Chicago would get him more publicity.

 

I'm not totally disagreeing here, but why would the Cell be a better place to hit in for a guy like Damon. Isn't the Cell more friendly to home run hitters, but not so kind to doubles and triples hitters. I think Damon would hit well in Detroit.

Edited February 13, 2010 by balfanman

[ThunderBolt]

Chicago is a nice city and Detroit is like a post-apocalyptic wasteland. If we’re talking aesthetics Chicago wins unconditionally.

[joeynach]

I'm not totally disagreeing here, but why would the Cell be a better place to hit in for a guy like Damon. Isn't the Cell more friendly to home run hitters, but not so kind to doubles and triples hitters. I think Damon would hit well in Detroit.

 

He hit 24HR last year...Id say power is a big part of his game and the cell would be the place to go.

[Balta1701]

He hit 24HR last year...Id say power is a big part of his game and the cell would be the place to go.

The Cell though would likely be a downgrade from that launching pad that is RF in the Yankee Stadium. It might even be a downgrade from RF in the old Yankee Stadium.

[beck72]

I'm not totally disagreeing here, but why would the Cell be a better place to hit in for a guy like Damon. Isn't the Cell more friendly to home run hitters, but not so kind to doubles and triples hitters. I think Damon would hit well in Detroit.

The Cell has a reputation to being more kind to HR hitters over the years. Comerica Park--not so much. Some of his doubles to RF would turn into Hr's, like the improvement many are expecting from Teahen.

 

Damon seemed ready to grovel back to the Yanks. Maybe part of it was his 17 HR's at the new stadium.

 

 

[Balta1701]

The Cell has a reputation to being more kind to HR hitters over the years. Comerica Park--not so much. Some of his doubles to RF would turn into Hr's, like the improvement many are expecting from Teahen.

Do you mean he'd gain HR's going from Yankee Stadium to the Cell? I don't buy that, if I'm reading this right.

 

ANd his groveling back to the Yanks? I think that's because no one offered him anything close to the $ that they offered originally when he turned them down outright.

[klaus kinski]

Do you mean he'd gain HR's going from Yankee Stadium to the Cell? I don't buy that, if I'm reading this right.

 

ANd his groveling back to the Yanks? I think that's because no one offered him anything close to the $ that they offered originally when he turned them down outright.

 

The Yankees bat boy had 20 hr in that bandbox-Damon should not be trying that anywhere else

 

[iamshack]

I haven't really stopped to consider the idea of Damon in our lineup, because I never really thought it would be a possibility.

 

But I must say, that should we ink Damon sometime early this week, our team certainly has a much different complexion to it, doesn't it?

 

A platoon of Jones/Damon/Quentin/Pierre/Nix at DH seems much more capable while still providing all kind of flexibility for Ozzie.

 

I think this would really get me excited for ST.

[Ranger]

Shouldn't that really be "Good pitchers dictate matchups." Most of the time, in relation to who the hitter is anyway, that is the only variable worth considering.

 

I can think of many times when a team has shuffled a pitching rotation to get the best matchup for a team going into an important series.

 

 

It happens, but usually toward the end of the season to get a more favorable matchup when games are crucial. Or midseason if there are off days and a team with a weaker rotation wants to skip a 4 or 5. It does happen but it really doesn't happen that often.

[chw42]

It happens, but usually toward the end of the season to get a more favorable matchup when games are crucial. Or midseason if there are off days and a team with a weaker rotation wants to skip a 4 or 5. It does happen but it really doesn't happen that often.

 

Off topic: What comic does your avatar come from Ranger?

 

I know it's by Skanberg, but I can't seem to find it...

[SoxAce]

Off topic: What comic does your avatar come from Ranger?

 

I know it's by Skanberg, but I can't seem to find it...

 

Knight would probably know the answer to that since he had it up (and put it in the avatar) for Ranger.

[knightni]

Knight would probably know the answer to that since he had it up (and put it in the avatar) for Ranger.

I think it's in PH7.

[beck72]

Do you mean he'd gain HR's going from Yankee Stadium to the Cell? I don't buy that, if I'm reading this right.

 

ANd his groveling back to the Yanks? I think that's because no one offered him anything close to the $ that they offered originally when he turned them down outright.

I just pointed out that he'd likely hit more HR's at the Cell than at Comerica.

 

By all accounts, Damon seemed to be asking for close to what he was making last year [$13 mill] from all teams--the 2 yr, $14 mill, offer from the Yanks was early on. Teams might have been interested before they spent all their money if Damon and Boras had considered a deal for less than $10 mill.

 

Boras and Damon really botched this offseason. That's why they might be willing to take a 1 yr deal to a contending team rather than say a 2 yr deal where he's locked in so Damon could play where he wants in 2011 [prob. NY or Bos].

[Rowand44]

Do we really have the worst farm system, or is that just according to Keith Law.

Just according to Keith Law. The only way that's even remotely true is if you're not counting Huddy and Flowers as prospects. But according to Law, Huddy didn't get passed a ball last season so he might not matter.

[BaseballNick]

Just according to Keith Law. The only way that's even remotely true is if you're not counting Huddy and Flowers as prospects. But according to Law, Huddy didn't get passed a ball last season so he might not matter.

 

Law also does not consider Viciedo a prospect. According to Law, many other talent evaluators view him the same way for some reason. Prospect or not, he's a valuable piece of the farm system - although that value does drop quite a bit as he shifts across the diamond to 1B.

 

Someone had mentioned earlier that a package including Hudson, D2, Flowers, Morel, Viciedo, Mitchell (as a PTBN), etc. would be an alluring group depending on what said team needs/is looking for in return, which I very much agree with. The problem is that the above group is very short on pitching, and usually pitching prospects are viewed as gold.

[RockRaines]

Law also does not consider Viciedo a prospect. According to Law, many other talent evaluators view him the same way for some reason. Prospect or not, he's a valuable piece of the farm system - although that value does drop quite a bit as he shifts across the diamond to 1B.

 

Someone had mentioned earlier that a package including Hudson, D2, Flowers, Morel, Viciedo, Mitchell (as a PTBN), etc. would be an alluring group depending on what said team needs/is looking for in return, which I very much agree with. The problem is that the above group is very short on pitching, and usually pitching prospects are viewed as gold.

 

Law doesnt consider the 20 year of Viciedo a prospect, yet strokes the Cubs 19 year old kid. He's an idiot.

[Dick Allen]

I hope I'm wrong, but I think its Atlanta or Detroit for Damon.

 

The Braves offer him something pretty small. Then it gets out they supposedly have $6 million to spend. Where did that come from? I think its the Boras camp saying that is the price you can have Johnny Damon . Whether this $14 million offer is true or not, it probably is all part of the game. Boras can justify Damon to Atlanta for $6 million with that offer on the table, saying living at home for spring training, the short flight for his wife to ATL, etc. are worth the smaller wage. For the White Sox, if he signed for $6 million, what excuse is he going to use to take less? They train in AZ so that's not as convenient. He can say he liked the White Sox situation better. The team, the city, etc., but if he did that, he probably has used the Tigers owner for the last time especially with all the gushing about how Johnny loves a lot of things about the Detroit area. I really don't think Boras wants to burn that bridge.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Dick Allen

[elrockinMT]

Law also does not consider Viciedo a prospect. According to Law, many other talent evaluators view him the same way for some reason. Prospect or not, he's a valuable piece of the farm system - although that value does drop quite a bit as he shifts across the diamond to 1B.

 

Someone had mentioned earlier that a package including Hudson, D2, Flowers, Morel, Viciedo, Mitchell (as a PTBN), etc. would be an alluring group depending on what said team needs/is looking for in return, which I very much agree with. The problem is that the above group is very short on pitching, and usually pitching prospects are viewed as gold.

 

 

Give up six players? Holy Cow!

[Quin]

Give up six players? Holy Cow!

 

Earlier when I said that, I said maybe 4 or 5 of them plus throw ins.

 

The fact is, the top of farm system is good, and could possibly match any offer out there depending on what we give up.

[BaseballNick]

Give up six players? Holy Cow!

 

Obviously not all of them, but those are the players other teams would be interested in.

[DirtySox]

Earlier when I said that, I said maybe 4 or 5 of them plus throw ins.

 

The fact is, the top of farm system is good, and could possibly match any offer out there depending on what we give up.

 

I'm not sure I buy into the farm system being the worst in baseball, but it is certainly in the lower third compared to the talent in other team's systems. I don't see it becoming more than middle of the pack unless Kenny removes his finger from the trade trigger anytime soon, or they increase draft spending (which desperately needs a boost). When Flowers and Hudson graduate (or are traded) will two more highly touted prospects have emerged to replace the talent that has departed the system?

 

Also, if by top of the farm you mean Hudson and Flowers, I would agree. I think Morel is going to solidify himself into a solid "B" prospect this year. The glove is real nice, and the bat is coming along. As far as Viciedo/Danks, they still have plenty to prove despite the upside they both possess. Teams aren't banging down the door to acquire those guys at the moment.

[Quin]

I'm not sure I buy into the farm system being the worst in baseball, but it is certainly in the lower third compared to the talent in other team's systems. I don't see it becoming more than middle of the pack unless Kenny removes his finger from the trade trigger anytime soon, or they increase draft spending (which desperately needs a boost). When Flowers and Hudson graduate (or are traded) will two more highly touted prospects have emerged to replace the talent that has departed the system?

 

Also, if by top of the farm you mean Hudson and Flowers, I would agree. I think Morel is going to solidify himself into a solid "B" prospect this year. The glove is real nice, and the bat is coming along. As far as Viciedo/Danks, they still have plenty to prove despite the upside they both possess. Teams aren't banging down the door to acquire those guys at the moment.

 

My top 5 are Hudson-Flowers-Mitchell-Viciedo-Danks. Hudson and Flowers are MLB ready, Mitchell isn't but has ungodly upside, same for Viciedo, and D2 could be a serviceable OF soon enough.

[DirtySox]

My top 5 are Hudson-Flowers-Mitchell-Viciedo-Danks. Hudson and Flowers are MLB ready, Mitchell isn't but has ungodly upside, same for Viciedo, and D2 could be a serviceable OF soon enough.

 

Mitchell and Viciedo's upside are quite different. I wouldn't qualify Viciedo's tools as ungodly at all. He might be able to hit for both average and power, but he hasn't demonstrated much of either just yet. The reviews of his bat speed are glowing, but he has quite a bit to figure out still and his swing mechanics are all over the place. (Though his 2 strike swing is nice.) His plate discipline is very questionable as well. Conditioning and defense are huge question marks right now, which is pretty evident with the move to 1B. He has upside and is definitely a legitimate prospect, but it is all in the bat as things currently stand.

 

Mitchell on the other hand is a tool-shed. If things pan out he will be a complete player with a plus bat and plus defense. The only tool that has been questioned by scouts is the arm/throwing ability. I guarantee you that any team discussing major trade with the White Sox are salivating much more over Mitchell than Dayan. (Not to mention the amount of money owed to Dayan is also a roadblock in trade discussions. It isn't tons, but it is a significant amount.)

[witesoxfan]

Mitchell and Viciedo's upside are quite different. I wouldn't qualify Viciedo's tools as ungodly at all. He might be able to hit for both average and power, but he hasn't demonstrated much of either just yet. The reviews of his bat speed are glowing, but he has quite a bit to figure out still and his swing mechanics are all over the place. (Though his 2 strike swing is nice.) His plate discipline is very questionable as well. Conditioning and defense are huge question marks right now, which is pretty evident with the move to 1B. He has upside and is definitely a legitimate prospect, but it is all in the bat as things currently stand.

 

Mitchell on the other hand is a tool-shed. If things pan out he will be a complete player with a plus bat and plus defense. The only tool that has been questioned by scouts is the arm/throwing ability. I guarantee you that any team discussing major trade with the White Sox are salivating much more over Mitchell than Dayan. (Not to mention the amount of money owed to Dayan is also a roadblock in trade discussions. It isn't tons, but it is a significant amount.)

 

Dayan Viciedo put up .280/.317/.391/.708 with 20 doubles and 12 homers in 540 plate appearances as a 20 year old in AA in his first season in American baseball. Jared Mitchell put up .296/.417/.435/.852 in 139 plate appearances in low single-A ball as a 20 year old, and is coincidentally 5 months older than Viciedo.

 

Beyond that, Viciedo has plus power potential, into like the 30+ homer range. Mitchell might have 20+ homer potential but it's going to be a while before we even see something close to that.

 

I just think you're being overly harsh on Viciedo and overly easy on Mitchell. The fact of the matter is that both of them are absolutely full of potential, but you can't tell anything at this point. It's a big year for Viciedo, but I don't think the Sox are in any rush to get him to the majors.

[DirtySox]

Dayan Viciedo put up .280/.317/.391/.708 with 20 doubles and 12 homers in 540 plate appearances as a 20 year old in AA in his first season in American baseball. Jared Mitchell put up .296/.417/.435/.852 in 139 plate appearances in low single-A ball as a 20 year old, and is coincidentally 5 months older than Viciedo.

 

Beyond that, Viciedo has plus power potential, into like the 30+ homer range. Mitchell might have 20+ homer potential but it's going to be a while before we even see something close to that.

 

I just think you're being overly harsh on Viciedo and overly easy on Mitchell. The fact of the matter is that both of them are absolutely full of potential, but you can't tell anything at this point. It's a big year for Viciedo, but I don't think the Sox are in any rush to get him to the majors.

 

Not being overly harsh. It is what it is with Dayan. He didn't have a very good year with the bat or in the field. I'm not denying the fact that he is a legitimate prospect, or overlooking his age compared to the league or the acclimation factor. The hitting and power tools are there, but he isn't some magical 5 star prospect at this point in time. This coming season's performance will be much more telling.

 

I'm not hyping Mitchell to be a sure thing, as he is anything but. He has the tools, but he needs to put them all together first. The sample size is far too small to be make any assessment right now. Just saying that all things being equal, if both players reach close to their ceiling, Mitchell is much more valuable.

Edited February 14, 2010 by DirtySox