Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[BigSqwert]

Jim Thome stats, 2007-2009

Pre all star OPS: .913

Post all star OPS, .876.

What about HRs and RBIs? That's what he was getting paid to do.

[chw42]

What about HRs and RBIs? That's what he was getting paid to do.

 

OPS already accounts for home runs, so eh. RBI is something I can care less for, even in this situation.

[BigSqwert]

Last year:

 

1st half - 14 HR 50 RBI

2nd half - 9 HR 27 RBI

[chw42]

Last year:

 

1st half - 14 HR 50 RBI

2nd half - 9 HR 27 RBI

 

That's kind of unfair since the first half for Thome was 3 months last year. His second half was a month and a half.

[ThunderBolt]

The unwavering optimism that some people have for this team is shocking considering we had Rios for the back end of the year, and we still finished 7.5 games behind the Twins. A whole year of Peavy and a Rios recovery will be a significant improvement to the team, but it is unlikely to be one worth 7.5 games. By all objective assessment our offense will either be of minimal improvement or exactly the same depending on what projections you want to believe, and what rebounds you want to factor in. Our defense is questionable, but I'm willing to believe that with Getz, Pods, and Dye being gone we will improve, minimally. Factoring in all of these we still have to deal with the problem that the Twins have gotten better too. We've lucked into the Tigers taking a dramatic step backward, and the Royals and the Indians content with stewing in mediocrity (albeit, the Indians doing it with a very competent new manager) These divisional issues will allow us to be a factor. A Damon signing would push the gap between the two teams to well within any statistical margin of error. I think it would assure a damn good chance of taking this team to the top of this division.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Thunderbolt

[WCSox]

Jim Thome stats, 2007-2009

Pre all star OPS: .913

Post all star OPS, .876.

 

Thome's OPS was .798 in August of last year and .471 in September/October. In September/October of '08, it was .712 (his August was solid). I admit that his '07 post-ASB numbers were good (my memory is apparently failing me), but he's obviously declining. While I would've liked Kenny to bring Thome back for one more year, I don't see him putting up an .850 OPS through the latter half of this year.

 

[Balta1701]

If we have the same Rios next year that we had in the 2nd half of last year, we're not winning this division.

[Balta1701]

Thome's OPS was .798 in August of last year and .471 in September/October.

In 17 at bats, mostly pinch hitting.

 

That has as much validity about anything as if I pointed out that he had a 1.000 OPS in October. He manages to hit 1 HR in those 17 at bats and his OPS goes from .471 to over 1.000.

[kitekrazy]

The Sox were weak at DH last year. I don't see it much different except they won't be totally slow on the bases. Odd that this team's recent history reflects injuries at the DH spot.

[Pants Rowland]

Not as good as "I don't want his face lookin at that face when he's throwing my dice... Put him in the f***in bathroom..."

 

Great stuff. I have a feeling there are going to be a lot of rotating DHs in the bathroom by midseason.

[Balta1701]

The Sox were weak at DH last year. I don't see it much different except they won't be totally slow on the bases. Odd that this team's recent history reflects injuries at the DH spot.

The Sox were #5 in the AL in OPS out of their DH slot and tied with Texas for #4 in RBI out of their DH slot.

[RockRaines]

We're paying Mark Kotsay as much money as the Twins are paying Jim Thome. A guy that would have solved these problems, and rid me of my concerns. 1.5 million bucks, that's all that it would have cost. That's chump change in the pocket of Mr. Reinsdorf. If 1.5 million bucks proves to be the difference between us winning the divison, and us failing to do so. I am going to be furious. We need this Damon signing like crazy.

 

Thome doesn play the field, they are not the same player so you cannot refer to them as the same piece of the puzzle. Kotsay plays 2 OF spots and 1B whereas Thome just bats.

[thedoctor]

If we have the same Rios next year that we had in the 2nd half of last year, we're not winning this division.

 

that right there probably sums it all up.

[ptatc]

We're paying Mark Kotsay as much money as the Twins are paying Jim Thome. A guy that would have solved these problems, and rid me of my concerns. 1.5 million bucks, that's all that it would have cost. That's chump change in the pocket of Mr. Reinsdorf. If 1.5 million bucks proves to be the difference between us winning the divison, and us failing to do so. I am going to be furious. We need this Damon signing like crazy.

 

Your point of saying Peavy and Rios pick ups don't count for the offseason is just semantics. They were acquired late in the season and make this team better than last year's team. So, they weren't technically acquired after all teams stopped playing games. They still help to make this team better than last year's team. Especially in the areas of pitching and defense which is the focus this year.

 

the Thome arguement is getting old. The only thing he brings is power. His strikeouts killed scoring opportunities and his high number of walks didn't alow for consistent scoring opportunities because it took three hits for him to score. The DH only arguement is valid. But Thome wasn't the answer.

 

The "Reinsdorf's money" has also been rehashed many times. There is a budget whether you like it or not. They cannot go over budget now and have no flexibility for injuries at the trading deadline. If an injury occurs there isn't alot of help in the minors. KW needs a little flexibility in case a player other than an OF gets hurt because this is the only place Damon could help.

 

Damon's salary may be in the budget but maybe not. There are other factors to look at other than the immediate concern.

 

[RockRaines]

In 17 at bats, mostly pinch hitting.

 

That has as much validity about anything as if I pointed out that he had a 1.000 OPS in October. He manages to hit 1 HR in those 17 at bats and his OPS goes from .471 to over 1.000.

His second half OPS was one of the lowest marks of his entire career.

[southsider2k5]

If we have the same Rios next year that we had in the 2nd half of last year, we're not winning this division.

 

Rios is not going to hit sub .200 this year.

[WCSox]

The unwavering optimism that some people have for this team is shocking considering we had Rios for the back end of the year, and we still finished 7.5 games behind the Twins. A whole year of Peavy and a Rios recovery will be a significant improvement to the team, but it is unlikely to be one worth 7.5 games. By all objective assessment our offense will either be of minimal improvement or exactly the same depending on what projections you want to believe, and what rebounds you want to factor in. Our defense is questionable, but I’m willing to believe that with Getz, Pods, and Dye being gone we will improve, minimally. Factoring in all of these we still have to deal with the problem that the Twins have gotten better too. We’ve lucked into the Tigers taking a dramatic step backward, and the Royals and the Indians content with stewing in mediocrity (albeit, the Indians doing it with a very competent new manager.) These divisional issues will allow us to be a factor. A Damon signing would push the gap between the two teams to well within any statistical margin of error. I think it would assure a damn good chance of taking this team to the top of this division.

 

The bottom line is that the Sox are in the middle of a re-tooling movement and aren't building their team around a one-shot chance at the 2010 division title. Most of the moves they're making are looking into the future. When you're trying to get younger and are building your team around guys like Peavy, Rios, Quentin, Beckham, Floyd, Danks, etc. and are maxed out on payroll, over-spending on 36-year-olds who can't do anything other than DH is often not part of the picture. Granted, I would love to have Damon on the roster, but I can understand why bumping the payroll up to $107M (after several years of $95M+ payrolls with very few playoff victories to show for it) isn't a part of the plan.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

The unwavering optimism that some people have for this team is shocking considering we had Rios for the back end of the year, and we still finished 7.5 games behind the Twins. A whole year of Peavy and a Rios recovery will be a significant improvement to the team, but it is unlikely to be one worth 7.5 games. By all objective assessment our offense will either be of minimal improvement or exactly the same depending on what projections you want to believe, and what rebounds you want to factor in. Our defense is questionable, but I'm willing to believe that with Getz, Pods, and Dye being gone we will improve, minimally. Factoring in all of these we still have to deal with the problem that the Twins have gotten better too. We've lucked into the Tigers taking a dramatic step backward, and the Royals and the Indians content with stewing in mediocrity (albeit, the Indians doing it with a very competent new manager) These divisional issues will allow us to be a factor. A Damon signing would push the gap between the two teams to well within any statistical margin of error. I think it would assure a damn good chance of taking this team to the top of this division.

No one has unwavering optimism, to which you are referring. People are countering you because you are extrapolating one weak spot on the team (and most people agree it certainly is that), into meaning the whole team sucks. You are ignoring or discounting the significant number of improvements the team has made in the past 6 or 7 months. The pitching looks very good, the defense will be significantly improved, and team speed is significantly improved. Even if the offense is similar in performance as you suggest, the team will still likely be significantly better.

 

[ThunderBolt]

Your point of saying Peavy and Rios pick ups don't count for the offseason is just semantics.

It's not semantics, it's fact. (Almost) Every trade that's ever been made has been made with the idea of improving the team towards the future. A lot of teams make deals down the stretch, and a lot of teams make huge deals to insure the future of a team. KW doesn't get a free pass for having made the Peavy and Rios moves, he get's a thank you from the fanbase and then the mandate to improve the team around these pieces. Two moves, big or small, does not an offseason make.

[ThunderBolt]

No one has unwavering optimism, to which you are referring. People are countering you because you are extrapolating one weak spot on the team (and most people agree it certainly is that), into meaning the whole team sucks. You are ignoring or discounting the significant number of improvements the team has made in the past 6 or 7 months. The pitching looks very good, the defense will be significantly improved, and team speed is significantly improved. Even if the offense is similar in performance as you suggest, the team will still likely be significantly better.

In no way am I discounting the moves we made. I'm simply factoring them into the greater divisional picture. We made two great moves midseason, and then countered losing Dye, Thome, and Pods with Juan Pierre, Mark Kotsay, Andruw Jones, and Mark Teahen. Tenuous improvements, if improvements at all. We cannot look at these deals in a vacuum. Nearly every move that we've made has been countered by a move by the Twins. A team, in the Twins, that won the division over us by 7.5 games, and no longer, like us, has to deal with the threat of the Tigers. The Twins are almost certainly better than last year. They were better than us last year. Logic demands that KW tweak the team to a point where competition with the Twins is a certainty, not a hope that factors in universally solid play from every element of the team.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Thunderbolt

[WCSox]

It's not semantics, it's fact. (Almost) Every trade that's ever been made has been made with the idea of improving the team towards the future. A lot of teams make deals down the stretch, and a lot of teams make huge deals to insure the future of a team. KW doesn't get a free pass for having made the Peavy and Rios moves, he get's a thank you from the fanbase and then the mandate to improve the team around these pieces. Two moves, big or small, does not an offseason make.

 

Only on Soxtalk would Kenny get ripped for not spending much in the off-season after committing over $100M to two star players just 6 months ago. Unbelievable.

 

[Balta1701]

In no way am I discounting the moves we made. I'm simply factoring them into the greater divisional picture. We made two great moves midseason, and then countered losing Dye, Thome, and Pods with Juan Pierre, Mark Kotsay, Andruw Jones, and Mark Teahen. Tenuous improvements, if improvements at all. We cannot look at these deals in a vacuum. Nearly every move that we've made has been countered by a move by the Twins. A team, in the Twins, that won the division over us by 7.5 games, and no longer, like us, has to deal with the threat of the Tigers. The Twins are almost certainly better than last year. They were better than us last year. Logic demands that KW tweak the team to a point where competition with the Twins is a certainty, not a hope that factors in universally solid play from every element of the team.

There's one other thing you're missing when you repeat that 7.5 games we have to make up issue...the big 20.

 

If Carlos Quentin hits like he did last year to open and close the season when he wasn't hurt, that's basically taking a slightly below average LF with the bat and replacing him with an MVP.

 

If Q isn't all there, then this team is going to struggle a lot again.

 

[gatnom]

Only on Soxtalk would Kenny get ripped for not spending much in the off-season after committing over $100M to two star players just 6 months ago. Unbelievable.

 

You don't find it at all annoying that we could have at least had as good of a DH as we had last year for less than or equal to the amount we are paying Mark Kotsay?

[WCSox]

If Q isn't all there, then this team is going to struggle a lot again.

 

True dat

 

You don't find it at all annoying that we could have at least had as good of a DH as we had last year for less than or equal to the amount we are paying Mark Kotsay?

 

Yeah, I would've liked to have Thome back (though I disagree that a declining Thome would be "at least as good a DH as we had last year"... that's far from a lock). And I don't know why he wasn't brought back.

 

That said, our offense has sucked balls down the stretch in two of the past three years with both Thome and JD in the lineup. I don't see how bringing back a 39-year-old Thome is going to propel us to to a division title. He would've been a nice (and cheap) addition, but was unlikely to be a game-changer.

Edited February 16, 2010 by WCSox

[Pants Rowland]

You don't find it at all annoying that we could have at least had as good of a DH as we had last year for less than or equal to the amount we are paying Mark Kotsay?

 

Not at all. While I do not agree 100% with the pieces currently in place to fill the DH role, I do like the idea of not tying up a roster spot with an overwhelmingly one dimensional player.

 

It is one thing to have Big Frank in his prime exclusively play DH (although he could fill in at first when necessary) but it is an entirely different situation where your DH sits through the entire interleague schedule because you are afraid he will get hurt playing the field. I am glad Thome played for the Sox and contributed some big moments, but I do not lament his absence on the 2010 roster.

 

With that said, I would love to see the Sox pick up a quality hitter who will work the count to fill in a DH and elsewhere during the season.