Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[dmbjeff]

Yeah, but the team he went to also has the most money to spend on players, and therefore, one of the best chances to win the WS each year, so it also made sense as far as a success standpoint

 

Come on now, Boston has the second highest payroll. They each won the same amount of WS during that 4 year stretch. He left for the money, period.

[ScottyDo]

Come on now, Boston has the second highest payroll. They each won the same amount of WS during that 4 year stretch. He left for the money, period.

I doubt it's as one-dimensional as all that.

[dmbjeff]

Not even a contest. The '94 team was the best I've ever witnessed. The pitching was just about as good as '93 with a VASTLY improved offense. Frank was Frank. He was the best offensive player in the world at the time. But what Julio Franco brought to the lineup, well, words really can't describe. And now I feel like going to the zoo and killing every animal I see. '94 still hurts.

 

Sorry to bring it up.

[LittleHurt05]

Come on now, Boston has the second highest payroll. They each won the same amount of WS during that 4 year stretch. He left for the money, period.

 

I doubt there weren't other circumstances at play...

[dmbjeff]

I doubt it's as one-dimensional as all that.

 

Probably not, but to suggest that he left Boston because he had better chances at more titles is retarded.

[dmbjeff]

Probably not, but to suggest that he left Boston because he had better chances at more titles is retarded.

 

That wife of his probably had a big role in the decision to be apart of New York life too. She is the only thing keeping me in the thought that Damon may end up here over Detroit.

[hogan873]

That wife of his probably had a big role in the decision to be apart of New York life too. She is the only thing keeping me in the thought that Damon may end up here over Detroit.

Did you just argue with yourself?

[bmags]

My argument is that owners and general managers don't look at their team in the same way that you do. You seem to have this notion that spending, spending, and more spending on veteran talent is the answer, despite the fact that that strategy has failed miserably in two of the past three seasons and that the Sox are already teetering on a $100M payroll with dwindling fan interest. Coincidentally, none of this money comes out of your own pocket and your ass isn't the one on the line when high-priced players like Dye, Rios, and Linebrink bomb down the stretch. This isn't a video game. Results matter in this business. If you don't get the correct ones, either your funding gets cut or you get fired.

 

If you want to complain as a fan about the Sox not wanting to pay Damon the $9M or so that it would take to keep him from going to Detroit, that's your prerogative. But in the real world, that's not how things work. Hell, I'm sure that JR and the board would approve Kenny's request to fork over another $15M if he could agree to terms with a high-impact player that would likely add another 10 wins to this team and stimulate gate revenue (via winning) to offset that cost. (Remember, this happened TWICE last summer... and you know what the results were.) But since Kenny apparently doesn't think that Damon is going to turn the Sox into an instant contender, he's not going to continue to put his ass (and his job) on the line for people like you.

 

Again, I find it ironic, then, that you want to trade away the talent that we'd have cheaply for 6 years in the future for a one or two year player we can't afford to re-sign.

 

The white sox attendance depends on winning. If they don't win, people don't showup in sept. or august. We have a 100 mill payroll now. If we waste this season depending on merely bounce back years AND an unbalanced lineup, when we have 2 huge contracts on the books for years to come, it's a stupid move. We are talking about a 1 year deal to make a MUCH more balanced lineup and a MUCH better chance of overcoming injuries and getting to the playoffs with a great pitching staff.

 

Instead you want to roll the dice with a 100 million dollar payroll on numerous gambles in your players you think can produce big, while taking huge gambles that the role players will produce AT ALL.

 

With the lineup as is, we need everything to go right offensively to be middle of the pack. That's abhorrent for a 100 million payroll.

 

[dmbjeff]

Did you just argue with yourself?

 

Indeed I did. This DH bullcrap has got me pretty riled up the past month.

[hogan873]

Indeed I did. This DH bullcrap has got me pretty riled up the past month.

I hear you. Sometimes I verbally assault myself, then apologize to myself and blame it on KW and Ozzie.

[Rowand44]

Even if you believe that, Damon isn't going to propel the Sox to a pennant and the Sox aren't going to want him for more than one year. Looking at the big picture, Damon isn't all that valuable.

Ya, I'm going to call bulls*** on this one. The difference between having a gaping hole at the dh position or having a pretty damn good player hitting there is quite valuable.

[SoxFan562004]

Again, I find it ironic, then, that you want to trade away the talent that we'd have cheaply for 6 years in the future for a one or two year player we can't afford to re-sign.

 

The white sox attendance depends on winning. If they don't win, people don't showup in sept. or august. We have a 100 mill payroll now. If we waste this season depending on merely bounce back years AND an unbalanced lineup, when we have 2 huge contracts on the books for years to come, it's a stupid move. We are talking about a 1 year deal to make a MUCH more balanced lineup and a MUCH better chance of overcoming injuries and getting to the playoffs with a great pitching staff.

 

Instead you want to roll the dice with a 100 million dollar payroll on numerous gambles in your players you think can produce big, while taking huge gambles that the role players will produce AT ALL.

 

With the lineup as is, we need everything to go right offensively to be middle of the pack. That's abhorrent for a 100 million payroll.

KW could also be taking a calculated risk that the trade market will open for a player he feels is a better fit during the season and doesn't want to tie up too much money in Damon at this point. He talks to other GMs, it's a realistic scenario that he called about specific hitters and the GMs told him to wait to see how they play early in the season.

 

Also, we're just basing our speculation on what's in the media, maybe Damon really won't take a one year deal or if he will it's for something like 9m. The Sox have shown in the past they will extend payroll, and JR has said it this off-season, if the right player is there. I like Damon as a fit for the White Sox a lot too, but maybe the White Sox don't see him as that player and think one will become available.

[Heads22]

On a side note, if we don't get Damon, I hope we take a serious look at Hank Blalock. I can't imagine he'll be too expensive, but he could function as an insurance policy, bats with the left hand, and he can play some infield, allowing for the possibility of less at bats for Omar Vizquel.

[chw42]

On a side note, if we don't get Damon, I hope we take a serious look at Hank Blalock. I can't imagine he'll be too expensive, but he could function as an insurance policy, bats with the left hand, and he can play some infield, allowing for the possibility of less at bats for Omar Vizquel.

 

How about Felipe Lopez...?

 

He can play 2B, move Gordon back to 3rd, have Teahen and Jones DH.

[ptatc]

Not even a contest. The '94 team was the best I've ever witnessed. The pitching was just about as good as '93 with a VASTLY improved offense. Frank was Frank. He was the best offensive player in the world at the time. But what Julio Franco brought to the lineup, well, words really can't describe. And now I feel like going to the zoo and killing every animal I see. '94 still hurts.

 

not to be a downer but I think Montreal had a better team that year.

 

Pedro martinez, John Wetteland, Larry Walker, Delino DeSheilds, Moises Alou

 

 

It would have been a great World series.

Edited February 18, 2010 by ptatc

[flavum]

How about Felipe Lopez...?

 

He can play 2B, move Gordon back to 3rd, have Teahen and Jones DH.

 

Beckham is never moving again.

[ThunderBolt]

If we don't get Damon, I'd prefer to take a gamble and sign Leslie Anderson and give him some playing time in the OF, i'd think he'd be a touch higher on the risk/reward ratio then some of the other guys on the market..

[Jordan4life_2007]

not to be a downer but I think Montreal had a better team that year.

 

Pedro martinez, John Wetteland, Larry Walker, Delino DeSheilds, Moises Alou

 

 

It would have been a great World series.

 

You ain't lyin'. That Montreal team was spectacular. Something supernatural was happening (and I don't mean steroids) in 1994. I can't even explain it. I remember Bill Clinton, who's a huge baseball fan, saying that particular year was shaping up to be the best he had witnessed in 40 years. That's obviously not an exact quote. But something like that.

[Ranger]

"it just helps detroit compete with us" pt. 2

 

 

He turned out to be right about that, didn't he?

[Kalapse]

not to be a downer but I think Montreal had a better team that year.

 

Pedro martinez, John Wetteland, Larry Walker, Delino DeSheilds, Moises Alou

 

 

It would have been a great World series.

Given that I was only 7 years old at the time I knew very little about the 1994 team so I recently looked up the standings. The Sox were only a single game up in the division and 3.5 games up in the wild card and tied for the 3rd best record in baseball on August 10th, the Yankees and their 6 hitters with an .800+ OPS had the best record in the AL. The way Sox fans talk about this team I just assumed they were way up in the division and held the best record in the AL. Regardless of how incredible people think that team was they were barely holding on to a playoff spot with the absolutely stacked (7 hitters with an .800+ OPS) Indians right on their ass and 2 months to go, I am now convinced that Sox fans are delusional.

[hogan873]

If we don't get Damon, I'd prefer to take a gamble and sign Leslie Anderson and give him some playing time in the OF, i'd think he'd be a touch higher on the risk/reward ratio then some of the other guys on the market..

I'm not up on the Cuban players, but is he eligible to play yet? If so, what kind of $ amount would be be looking for?

[Buehrlesque]

This is the same guy who fled Boston, a place where he was treated as a God and then was referred to as Judas, for more money. To suggest he doesn't want the best deal is crazy.

Yeah, that never sat well with me. It made him look like a huge phony. You could say there were other issues at play but come on, that's one of the most heated rivalries in sports. He was loved in Boston, and fled for more money. I have little doubt he'll do the same thing this time. (The only difference is that NYY and BOS were equally competitive, whereas in this case the Sox are probably considered more competitive than DET, at least for '10. That would certainly be a tiebreaker, at the least)

[Jordan4life_2007]

Given that I was only 7 years old at the time I knew very little about the 1994 team so I recently looked up the standings. The Sox were only a single game up in the division and 3.5 games up in the wild card and tied for the 3rd best record in baseball on August 10th, the 1995 World Series champion Yankees and their 6 hitters with an .800+ OPS had the best record in the AL. The way Sox fans talk about this team I just assumed they were way up in the division and held the best record in the AL. Regardless of how incredible people think that team was they were barely holding on to a playoff spot with the absolutely stacked (7 hitters with an .800+ OPS) Indians right on their ass and 2 months to go, I am now convinced that Sox fans are delusional.

 

I said it was the best White Sox team I had seen. Never said they were the best team in baseball. There was so much competition that year. The Yankees were back. The Indians came outta nowhere. I think why most people hold that team in such high regard is because we will never know how the season would've ended. There's like a mystical aspect to it. I fully believe they would've at least made it to the playoffs. And given the rotation we had and the fact we had the best player, or hitter, in baseball at the time, I would've liked our chances.

 

Edit: Did I mix up mythical and mystical? lol. Anyway, I'm sure you understand what I mean. Also, you know the Braves won the World Series in 1995. The Yankees lost to the Mariners.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Jordan4life

[Kyyle23]

Cleveland had an amazing offense, but their pitching wasnt quite what the White Sox had. Im not saying that they couldnt overtake them, but if it came down to pitching the Sox would of taken them, hands down.

[witesoxfan]

If the White sox sign Damon then either Andruw Jones or Nix will be out. The White Sox typically carry 12 pitchers. The choice to be made if Damon signs will be to carry 6 outfielders with only 5 infielders or 5 outfielders and 6 infielders. With 5 infielders the reserve infielder would be Vizquel.

 

Just because the White Sox typically carry 12 pitchers doesn't mean they will. With the pitching staff this team has, it shouldn't be a requirement that they have 12. I know Ozzie likes having his two lefties, but a bullpen of Jenks, Putz, Thornton, Pena, Linebrink, and Williams/Santos/Hudson would get by just fine to atleast start the season considering the Sox have 4 guys in the rotation very capable of putting up 200+ innings. The Sox went into last year with 7 bullpen pitchers because the final two rotation spots were filled by an aged Contreras and an overweight and terribly out of shape Colon. Garcia is the only pitcher I would consider injury prone in the rotation.

 

That 94 team would have whipped the 05 teams ass by the way, they were unbelievable.

 

It's funny, I was watching the World Series DVD last night as I went to bed. I wasn't following baseball close enough back then, but, taking out August when the Sox went 12-16 and including the playoffs (it's cherry picking for sure, but I get to do this because I want to), the Sox played .671 baseball, going 98-48. I did take out a pretty substantial amount of games - 16% of them in fact - but .671 is pretty f***ing good. A .671 winning percentage in the regular season gets you somewhere around 108 or 109 wins. Fluky or not, the team put up an ERA+ of 124, which ties for the 3rd best ERA+ by any team of the decade (2002 Braves put up an ERA+ of 133, Dodgers of 2003 were at 128, and the 2005 Sox and 2001 Braves both put up 124).

 

It's an interesting debate, but I think the 2005 White Sox beat the 1994 White Sox. The '94 team may have had more talent, but the '05 Sox were the better team.