Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[SoxAce]

Given that I was only 7 years old at the time I knew very little about the 1994 team so I recently looked up the standings. The Sox were only a single game up in the division and 3.5 games up in the wild card and tied for the 3rd best record in baseball on August 10th, the 1995 World Series champion Yankees and their 6 hitters with an .800+ OPS had the best record in the AL. The way Sox fans talk about this team I just assumed they were way up in the division and held the best record in the AL. Regardless of how incredible people think that team was they were barely holding on to a playoff spot with the absolutely stacked (7 hitters with an .800+ OPS) Indians right on their ass and 2 months to go, I am now convinced that Sox fans are delusional.

 

I was 8 myself, but my father and grandfather (RIP) told me for years the sox would have beat the Yankees in a playoff series. Other than Jimmy Key, the Yankees rotation wasn't good, and not nearly as good as the sox that year, they just out-slugged everybody. I was just checking their stats right now, and I would have to agree with my folks. They made a late trade for Terry Mulholland cause people question that team's overall rotation and they felt that trade helped them out.

Edited February 18, 2010 by SoxAce

[Jordan4life_2007]

It's funny, I was watching the World Series DVD last night as I went to bed. I wasn't following baseball close enough back then, but, taking out August when the Sox went 12-16 and including the playoffs (it's cherry picking for sure, but I get to do this because I want to), the Sox played .671 baseball, going 98-48. I did take out a pretty substantial amount of games - 16% of them in fact - but .671 is pretty f***ing good. A .671 winning percentage in the regular season gets you somewhere around 108 or 109 wins. Fluky or not, the team put up an ERA+ of 124, which ties for the 3rd best ERA+ by any team of the decade (2002 Braves put up an ERA+ of 133, Dodgers of 2003 were at 128, and the 2005 Sox and 2001 Braves both put up 124).

 

It's an interesting debate, but I think the 2005 White Sox beat the 1994 White Sox. The '94 team may have had more talent, but the '05 Sox were the better team.

 

It's easy to come to that conclusion because we know how 2005 ended. It's always tricky comparing teams from different eras. Just too many different variables.

[WCSox]

Again, I find it ironic, then, that you want to trade away the talent that we'd have cheaply for 6 years in the future for a one or two year player we can't afford to re-sign.

 

I'd be hesitant to trade Hudson, but would probably deal Flowers for somebody like Crawford (who is a hell of a lot better than Damon)... IF this team showed that it could do better than 2nd or 3rd place.

 

The white sox attendance depends on winning. If they don't win, people don't showup in sept. or august.

 

In your mind, spending on declining veterans guarantees winning. In the real world, it does not. I present 2007 and 2009 as evidence.

 

In your world, Johnny Damon instantly turns the Sox into a winner. In the real world, adding a declining player with a nice OBP to a 79-win team doesn't help all that much. If Damon helps the Sox win 6 more games this year (and that's an extremely generous estimate), that still won't be enough to win the division. So not only do the Sox not win that many more games, but they're even further in the hole because there wasn't nearly enough attendance revenue to offset the increased payroll.

 

We have a 100 mill payroll now. If we waste this season depending on merely bounce back years AND an unbalanced lineup, when we have 2 huge contracts on the books for years to come, it's a stupid move. We are talking about a 1 year deal to make a MUCH more balanced lineup and a MUCH better chance of overcoming injuries and getting to the playoffs with a great pitching staff.

 

Damon isn't going to make this lineup MUCH more balanced. More like SLIGHTLY more balanced. You seem to be confusing him with Pujols or A-Rod. What will make or break this lineup is Quentin's health and Rios' ability to rebound.

 

Instead you want to roll the dice with a 100 million dollar payroll on numerous gambles in your players you think can produce big, while taking huge gambles that the role players will produce AT ALL.

 

LOL, this team has spent the past four years "rolling the dice with a $100 million payroll" on dinosaurs like Dye and Linebrink who didn't produce when needed, despite what they were worth on paper.

 

With the lineup as is, we need everything to go right offensively to be middle of the pack. That's abhorrent for a 100 million payroll.

 

To the contrary, it's the RESULT of a $100 million payroll. In the real world, businesses have to operate on budgets. When you spend $53M on four starting pitchers and three bullpen arms, there's less for allocation to other positions. The majority of the current lineup (Pierre, Beckham, Quentin, Konerko, Rios, AJ, Alexei) is actually halfway decent. Not as good as it could be but, again, budgets matter.

 

I find it ironic that you're whining about one freaking position (DH, to boot) when the rest of the lineup is decent (minus Teahen, who is "meh") and the pitching staff is excellent. And I find it even more ironic that you're whining about a declining Johnny Damon potentially not being signed after Kenny delivered both Peavy and Rios last summer and is carrying a $100M payroll in the face of a severe recession and waning ticket sales. Talk about ungrateful. A lot of fans would kill for a GM with the stones to do that and an owner who was willing to bankroll it.

 

If you want to complain about Kenny not signing Thome for dirt-cheap, I'm with you. That makes sense. Whining about not out-bidding the Tigers for one year of Johnny Damon makes no sense.

Edited February 18, 2010 by WCSox

[longshot7]

It appears to be done.

 

http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox/status/9301693034

[southsider2k5]

It appears to be done.

 

http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox/status/9301693034

 

All that is about is the replay of the final game of the 2005 WS.

[WCSox]

It appears to be done.

 

http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox/status/9301693034

 

 

 

[longshot7]

All that is about is the replay of the final game of the 2005 WS.

 

Damn. Oops!

[clyons]

It appears to be done.

 

http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox/status/9301693034

Not cool.

[WCSox]

 

[Ranger]

 

This is the same guy who fled Boston, a place where he was treated as a God and then was referred to as Judas, for more money. To suggest he doesn't want the best deal is crazy.

 

It may very well have only been about the cash, but it's not like he left for Baltimore. He went to the New York Yankees. And even though Boston won a pair of titles within a couple of years, the Yankees were still arguably a better team on paper. Plus, it's the Yankees. There are a number of players that would love to be able to put that uniform on some day. Not to mention the fact that it is New York, afterall. You can be famous in Boston, but you can be a star in New York. And if is wife has any say at all in what happens, and she is interested in the lifestyle, don't think for a second should wouldn't love to live in Manhattan for a while on the money he makes. HE probably wouldn't mind either.

 

Again, I don't know any intimate details about what he thinks or what their dynamic is, but there is an appeal to playing for NY outside of the money.

[Chisoxfn]

Damn it, you got me super excited.

[SoxAce]

It appears to be done.

 

http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox/status/9301693034

 

Asshole.

[BFirebird]

Damn it...I was fooled as well!

[ptatc]

Given that I was only 7 years old at the time I knew very little about the 1994 team so I recently looked up the standings. The Sox were only a single game up in the division and 3.5 games up in the wild card and tied for the 3rd best record in baseball on August 10th, the 1995 World Series champion Yankees and their 6 hitters with an .800+ OPS had the best record in the AL. The way Sox fans talk about this team I just assumed they were way up in the division and held the best record in the AL. Regardless of how incredible people think that team was they were barely holding on to a playoff spot with the absolutely stacked (7 hitters with an .800+ OPS) Indians right on their ass and 2 months to go, I am now convinced that Sox fans are delusional.

 

 

We always have been and always will be.

[Ranger]

Again, I find it ironic, then, that you want to trade away the talent that we'd have cheaply for 6 years in the future for a one or two year player we can't afford to re-sign.

 

The white sox attendance depends on winning. If they don't win, people don't showup in sept. or august. We have a 100 mill payroll now. If we waste this season depending on merely bounce back years AND an unbalanced lineup, when we have 2 huge contracts on the books for years to come, it's a stupid move. We are talking about a 1 year deal to make a MUCH more balanced lineup and a MUCH better chance of overcoming injuries and getting to the playoffs with a great pitching staff.

 

Instead you want to roll the dice with a 100 million dollar payroll on numerous gambles in your players you think can produce big, while taking huge gambles that the role players will produce AT ALL.

 

With the lineup as is, we need everything to go right offensively to be middle of the pack. That's abhorrent for a 100 million payroll.

 

 

How can you possibly have any idea that the Sox wouldn't have the ability to re-sign Gonzalez a year and a half from now? You don't know that because you don't know what the economic climate will be then and you don't know the resources that may become available to them over the next two seasons. "Attendance depends on winning" right? It's likely a player like him would help them win, which would give them more payroll flexibility.

 

The other thing is that a team is willing to trade a good package of its youth for a player like Gonzalez because a. He's young, b ) He's still incredibly cheap for two seasons, c) He's a sure thing (production-wise), and d) The Sox minor leaguers that would hypothetically be involved in the deal are not "sure things". As promising as some of them are, they all may blow when they get here. Such is the nature of prospects.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Ranger

[NorthSideSox72]

.

Source?

 

[DirtySox]

Wasn't that exact article posted hours ago? Has it changed or something?

[SoxAce]

Wasn't that exact article posted hours ago? Has it changed or something?

 

Yea it was earlier in this thread actually so I'll erase it since it was up already. I guess we will find out tomorrow or Saturday on Damon and with KW on Sunday.

Edited February 18, 2010 by SoxAce

[Buehrle>Wood]

I forgot how the national media painted all Sox fans as stock yard workers.

[ThunderBolt]

It appears to be done.

 

http://twitter.com/InsideTheSox/status/9301693034

Damnit.

[Balta1701]

How can you possibly have any idea that the Sox wouldn't have the ability to re-sign Gonzalez a year and a half from now? You don't know that because you don't know what the economic climate will be then and you don't know the resources that may become available to them over the next two seasons. "Attendance depends on winning" right? It's likely a player like him would help them win, which would give them more payroll flexibility.

Ranger, I think we can make some pretty educated guesses based on where salary has been over the past few years, the number and value of contracts that we'll be holding that year, and typical arbitration values for guys that we have like Quentin and Danks. Of course things are going to change based on deals, but the whole point is that we don't want to have to make deals that make us worse in order to afford his salary, like Detroit is having to do, because that defeats the whole purpose.

[longshot7]

I'm sorry everyone - I was fooled as well. Boo-urns to me.....

[WilliamTell]

This is beyond rediculous. Please sign soon!

[gatnom]

How can you possibly have any idea that the Sox wouldn't have the ability to re-sign Gonzalez a year and a half from now? You don't know that because you don't know what the economic climate will be then and you don't know the resources that may become available to them over the next two seasons. "Attendance depends on winning" right? It's likely a player like him would help them win, which would give them more payroll flexibility.

 

The other thing is that a team is willing to trade a good package of its youth for a player like Gonzalez because a. He's young, b ) He's still incredibly cheap for two seasons, c) He's a sure thing (production-wise), and d) The Sox minor leaguers that would hypothetically be involved in the deal are not "sure things". As promising as some of them are, they all may blow when they get here. Such is the nature of prospects.

 

Maybe they win a couple world series, but I can't see them investing $20 million a year for a good 8 years in one player. It just doesn't seem like a "Sox" kind of deal.

[bmags]

Maybe they win a couple world series, but I can't see them investing $20 million a year for a good 8 years in one player. It just doesn't seem like a "Sox" kind of deal.

 

And, in all likelihood, he would command more than Teixera, of course, if he keeps up his numbers.

 

And per Ranger, no, prospects aren't sure things. But neither are aging reclamation projects that are as cheap that we are plugging into our holes now. Throughout the years, trading prospects has been a better way to get more reasonable contracts and talent to the white sox. That isn't the case this offseason, when good value could be had without sacrificing our farm which is top heavy with no depth.

 

If we can get Adrian Gonzalez, that's great. Bravo. I really doubt signing Johnny Damon will have any impact on that.