Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[fathom]

I wish people would give up on getting Adrian Gonzalez. It's obvious that when he's available, Boston will be the heavy favorite to get him. They have better prospects at nearly every position, as well as the payroll to give him the extension a team will want to give him before trading for him.

[Chisoxfn]

I wish people would give up on getting Adrian Gonzalez. It's obvious that when he's available, Boston will be the heavy favorite to get him. They have better prospects at nearly every position, as well as the payroll to give him the extension a team will want to give him before trading for him.

If you've heard what I've heard, you'd know that it would be foolish to give up on Adrian. The Sox have tried on multiple occasions and as of now the asking price is too high in their minds. That could change though, you never know.

[EvilJester99]

If you've heard what I've heard, you'd know that it would be foolish to give up on Adrian. The Sox have tried on multiple occasions and as of now the asking price is too high in their minds. That could change though, you never know.

Don't be messin with my emotions Smokey....getting me excited about AGon....

[fathom]

If you've heard what I've heard, you'd know that it would be foolish to give up on Adrian. The Sox have tried on multiple occasions and as of now the asking price is too high in their minds. That could change though, you never know.

 

It is cause the asking price is too high, or the Padres just are looking for every excuse not to trade him yet? Reports out of Boston are that he's not available.

[Chisoxfn]

Don't be messin with my emotions Smokey....getting me excited about AGon....

I'm not saying it will happen. Right now it appears San Diego is pretty content on keeping him unless they get a real strong offer. But if he is available the Sox are gonna make a push and have made plenty of attempts during the off-season already.

[Chisoxfn]

It is cause the asking price is too high, or the Padres just are looking for every excuse not to trade him yet? Reports out of Boston are that he's not available.

I think its a bit of both. Everyone is available for the right price, but the Sox aren't interested in offering up what the Pads want. But obviously that is just my speculation based upon the stuff I've heard and read.

[Chisoxfn]

Plus, its Kenny f***ing Williams people, the guy is the most active trader on the market every year, so if a big fish is there, you know damn well he'll see what he can do.

[EvilJester99]

I'm not saying it will happen. Right now it appears San Diego is pretty content on keeping him unless they get a real strong offer. But if he is available the Sox are gonna make a push and have made plenty of attempts during the off-season already.

I know you're not saying it will happen but even the chance would be interesting...and no doubt KW will try for him.

[WCSox]

I'm not saying it will happen. Right now it appears San Diego is pretty content on keeping him unless they get a real strong offer. But if he is available the Sox are gonna make a push and have made plenty of attempts during the off-season already.

 

If Freddy is durable and semi-effective this year, I would seriously consider offering a package featuring Hudson for AGon. His club $5.5M club option for 2011 is nothing and he would overlap with Mark's (likely) last year here.

 

[Ranger]

Ranger, I think we can make some pretty educated guesses based on where salary has been over the past few years, the number and value of contracts that we'll be holding that year, and typical arbitration values for guys that we have like Quentin and Danks. Of course things are going to change based on deals, but the whole point is that we don't want to have to make deals that make us worse in order to afford his salary, like Detroit is having to do, because that defeats the whole purpose.

 

Maybe they win a couple world series, but I can't see them investing $20 million a year for a good 8 years in one player. It just doesn't seem like a "Sox" kind of deal.

 

But it also wouldn't be a Sox kind of deal to trade their best prospects for a player they didn't think they had a chance of signing beyond his current contract. The thing is that you just can't make an assumption of what they will be able to afford, what they will already have, and what their needs will be for 2012. Hell, they don't even know that for sure. You simply cannot discount the possibility that they would be willing, and able, to acquire him and hang onto him at that time.

 

And, in all likelihood, he would command more than Teixera, of course, if he keeps up his numbers.

 

And per Ranger, no, prospects aren't sure things. But neither are aging reclamation projects that are as cheap that we are plugging into our holes now. Throughout the years, trading prospects has been a better way to get more reasonable contracts and talent to the white sox. That isn't the case this offseason, when good value could be had without sacrificing our farm which is top heavy with no depth.

 

If we can get Adrian Gonzalez, that's great. Bravo. I really doubt signing Johnny Damon will have any impact on that.

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this, because I don't conisder a hypothetical Gonzalez-for-prospects trade to have anything to do with plugging bench holes with veteran players. The two situations have nothing to do with each other. And, sure, you could acquire Damon and, at some point, pick up Gonzalez but there would be no real reason to have them both. Another deal would have to be made.

[joeynach]

If you've heard what I've heard, you'd know that it would be foolish to give up on Adrian. The Sox have tried on multiple occasions and as of now the asking price is too high in their minds. That could change though, you never know.

 

Hes gonna get like at least 5 Years 75 Mil, if not 6 years 100 Mil. There is no way the sox get involved.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Kenny will let the Tigers get Damon, and then instead he will trade for the Diamondbacks CF Gerardo Parra. Wishful thinking.

[Kalapse]

Hes gonna get like at least 5 Years 75 Mil, if not 6 years 100 Mil. There is no way the sox get involved.

Try 8 years, $180M if he keeps up his 2009 level of production. He's an elite talent and he'll land elite money.

[WCSox]

And, sure, you could acquire Damon and, at some point, pick up Gonzalez but there would be no real reason to have them both.

 

Not only that, but there's no room for both of them. AGon would likely play 1B, which would move Paulie to DH. If you wanted to maintain a 12-man pitching staff, Jones and Kotsay would have to be DFA'd. Pierre would have to be benched (which is a waste) with Damon taking over in LF. And if Quentin got hurt (again), you wouldn't have a legit RF anymore. The only way that this would be doable would be to carry 11 pitchers on the roster and hope that Jones stayed healthy enough to play RF if something happened to Q.

 

Edited February 18, 2010 by WCSox

[WCSox]

Try 8 years, $180M if he keeps up his 2009 level of production. He's an elite talent and he'll land elite money.

 

Yeah, I agree that the Sox wouldn't sign AGon to a new deal if they traded for him. He'd be a 1.5 year rental.

 

[bmags]

But it also wouldn't be a Sox kind of deal to trade their best prospects for a player they didn't think they had a chance of signing beyond his current contract. The thing is that you just can't make an assumption of what they will be able to afford, what they will already have, and what their needs will be for 2012. Hell, they don't even know that for sure. You simply cannot discount the possibility that they would be willing, and able, to acquire him and hang onto him at that time.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this, because I don't conisder a hypothetical Gonzalez-for-prospects trade to have anything to do with plugging bench holes with veteran players. The two situations have nothing to do with each other. And, sure, you could acquire Damon and, at some point, pick up Gonzalez but there would be no real reason to have them both. Another deal would have to be made.

 

You jumped into the middle of a debate over whether it's a better idea to use the DH/committee and wait for a player to open up to trade for, or to sign someone. So I was assuming that what you had interjected was in someway related.

[gatnom]

But it also wouldn't be a Sox kind of deal to trade their best prospects for a player they didn't think they had a chance of signing beyond his current contract. The thing is that you just can't make an assumption of what they will be able to afford, what they will already have, and what their needs will be for 2012. Hell, they don't even know that for sure. You simply cannot discount the possibility that they would be willing, and able, to acquire him and hang onto him at that time.

 

It's not really a question of whether or not they can even afford him, but whether or not they would be willing to invest $200 million plus in one person. I was really low-balling my previous estimate because he would actually be making less money than Mark Teixeira over the same amount of years (it seems likely he will get more of both). I think at that point it's not really a shrewd business move even though Adrian is a really, really good player considering where their payrolls normally are.

[ThunderBolt]

Not only that, but there's no room for both of them. AGon would likely play 1B, which would move Paulie to DH. If you wanted to maintain a 12-man pitching staff, Jones and Kotsay would have to be DFA'd. Pierre would have to be benched (which is a waste) with Damon taking over in LF. And if Quentin got hurt (again), you wouldn't have a legit RF anymore. The only way that this would be doable would be to carry 11 pitchers on the roster and hope that Jones stayed healthy enough to play RF if something happened to Q.

Juan Pierre was on the bench for the majority of last year. He can fill that role for us too.

[bmags]

Not only that, but there's no room for both of them. AGon would likely play 1B, which would move Paulie to DH. If you wanted to maintain a 12-man pitching staff, Jones and Kotsay would have to be DFA'd. Pierre would have to be benched (which is a waste) with Damon taking over in LF. And if Quentin got hurt (again), you wouldn't have a legit RF anymore. The only way that this would be doable would be to carry 11 pitchers on the roster and hope that Jones stayed healthy enough to play RF if something happened to Q.

 

Oh no, we would have to DFA kotsay and Jones? We would have to bench Pierre? We'd have a good DH and amazing 1b? This is like my wet dream.

[WCSox]

Oh no, we would have to DFA kotsay and Jones? We would have to bench Pierre? We'd have a good DH and amazing 1b? This is like my wet dream.

 

Pierre is a .290-.300 hitter who is good for a .330-.350 OBP and steals 30+ bases a year at a 75-80% clip. That's a perfect #9 hitter and relegating him to the bench with a $4M salary is an incredibly dumb idea. It's even dumber to rely on him to play RF or CF when Quentin suffers yet another injury.

 

If the Sox somehow acquired both AGon and Damon (which is extremely unlikely to begin with), they'd have to trade Pierre for a cheap RF to make it work. Otherwise, it would make the lineup even more one-dimensional than it already is and it would downgrade the outfield defense. If the Sox are seriously going to make a run at AGon, it would make a lot more sense to just leave Damon out of the picture.

Edited February 19, 2010 by WCSox

[gatnom]

Oh no, we would have to DFA kotsay and Jones? We would have to bench Pierre? We'd have a good DH and amazing 1b? This is like my wet dream.

 

Yeah really, if DFA'ing Jones is what stops them from acquiring Adrian Gonzalez, I want a new GM.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Oh no, we would have to DFA kotsay and Jones? We would have to bench Pierre? We'd have a good DH and amazing 1b? This is like my wet dream.

 

 

Yeah really, if DFA'ing Jones is what stops them from acquiring Adrian Gonzalez, I want a new GM.

 

I think both of you guys know that neither Kotsay, Jones or Pierre would play any role in if the White Sox did or did not land Gonzalez.

[bmags]

Pierre is a .290-.300 hitter who is good for a .330-.350 OBP and steals 30+ bases a year at a 75-80% clip. That's a perfect #9 hitter and relegating him to the bench with a $4.5M salary is an incredibly dumb idea. It's even dumber to rely on him to play RF or CF when Quentin suffers yet another injury.

 

If the Sox were lucky enough to garner both AGon and Damon (which is extremely unlikely to begin with), they'd have to trade Pierre for a cheap RF to make it work. Otherwise, it would make the lineup even more one-dimensional than it already is and downgrades the outfield defense.

 

Yes, it is a very unlikely scenario, that's why I'd bet more on the latter move happening than the former. But for one, paying pierre DOUBLE what we are paying did not stop the dodgers from sitting him. Why? It made their offense better.

 

In this crazy hypothetical situation, you'd be sitting you're current LFer, a (likely) .330 OBP singles hitter but who gets a lot of hits, with someone who may have less average, but gets on base at a higher clip, has vast more power. Pierre is better at defense and steals, no doubt.

 

And, in the case that Quentin gets injured, you have damon in right and pierre in left. Is it as good as Quentin in RF? No, but what team can ideally replace one of it's best players easily?

 

These are easily workable circumstances if you are acquiring a 45 HR, potential 1.000 ops hitter.

 

And again, you are acquiring at the deadline, so this would only be for 1/2 the year. You can rework the team in the offseason and sign as many aging minimum salary guys as will make your heart content.

 

But in no way does sitting pierre for damon hurt us in any way except defense, and I'd imagine the offense makes up for those runs.

[ThunderBolt]

Pierre is a .290-.300 hitter who is good for a .330-.350 OBP and steals 30+ bases a year at a 75-80% clip.

You do realize that Pierre hasn't put up those types of numbers for more then a two month span in about 5 years, right?

[WCSox]

Yes, it is a very unlikely scenario, that's why I'd bet more on the latter move happening than the former. But for one, paying pierre DOUBLE what we are paying did not stop the dodgers from sitting him. Why? It made their offense better.

 

The Dodgers have a lot more money than we do and were stupid to pay Pierre what they did. Hence their decision to eat half of his remaining contract. Also remember that Pierre was only on the bench because of Manny. I can't think of many players that would beat out Manny for a spot in LF. Pierre was also outstanding during Manny's suspension (.360 OBP).

 

And, in the case that Quentin gets injured, you have damon in right and pierre in left. Is it as good as Quentin in RF? No, but what team can ideally replace one of it's best players easily?

 

Damon in RF? Are you f'n kidding me? Have you seen his arm recently? He'd be worse than Pods in RF.

 

And again, you are acquiring at the deadline, so this would only be for 1/2 the year. You can rework the team in the offseason and sign as many aging minimum salary guys as will make your heart content.

 

The Sox would get 1.5 years of AGon. He has a $5.5M club option for 2011.

 

But in no way does sitting pierre for damon hurt us in any way except defense, and I'd imagine the offense makes up for those runs.

 

The problem really isn't their relative defensive prowess. It's the fact that the roster is being clogged by more people who can't play defense at all, and nobody who can play RF when Quentin inevitably gets hurt again.

 

I'm not advocating that having Damon and AGon on the same roster is a horrible situation that the Sox should avoid at all costs. But a situation like that would present serious roster issues (no backup RF, the possibility of limiting the pitching staff, etc.). Not insurmountable ones, but these are still legitimate problems. If I'm waiting to see how things shake out in June before thinking of adding to this team, these are even more reasons to not bother with somebody like Damon right now.