Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[ScottyDo]

We have a hole in LF, might have a hole in CF, and have a hole at DH.

If Juan Pierre and Alex Rios are holes, especially with Rios playing CF, then pretty much every ML team has serious holes

[Flash Tizzle]

Even if Jones and Kotsay exceeded everyone's expectations and did well in their DH roles, would anyone be fooled into bringing them back for the spot in 2011?

 

I guarantee, bad or good, those two won't be the DH past this season. And I understand that if both of them did well in their roles they'd probably look for full-time work, but I just feel that there's no excuse for their placement except for Williams not having enough money left over to fill the position. That, of course, is entirely his fault. It's very convenient that he can use the "Ozzie wants these type of players" excuse to justify it.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Flash Tizzle

[WCSox]

You're just making a parody of my parody at this point. My post was just to point out that around those crappy roster fillers for the Twins were quality players.

 

You completely missed my point about three "holes" being in the Twins' starting lineup last season, yet they still managed to win the division.

 

By my count, this year's Sox team only has two "holes" and a much better pitching staff than MIN.

 

[ScottyDo]

Even if Jones and Kotsay exceeded everyone's expectations and did well in their DH roles, would anyone be fooled into bringing them back for the spot in 2011?

 

I guarantee, bad or good, those two won't be the DH past this season.

 

So really, what's the point of it? Just to prove to people that it can work? There's no reason, other than Williams not having enough money left over to fill the position; and he can use the "Ozzie wants these type of players" excuse to justify it.

That's a pretty big reason.

[bmags]

that's really nobodies fault but his own though.

[longshot7]

When Dye left, there was a hole in the outfield. Now there is not. You may not like the move, but it's not a hole.

 

A below average player is considered a hole, you're just being pedantic.

 

Use a different word then. Having a player to fill a position (quality aside) is not a hole. A hole is just that, a hole.

Edited February 20, 2010 by longshot7

[Flash Tizzle]

That's a pretty big reason.

You guys are quoting me too quickly.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Flash Tizzle

[bmags]

By this definition, the Royals have a team full of holes. Is that fair?

 

Yes. They also don't have a 100 million dollar payroll.

[ScottyDo]

that's really nobodies fault but his own though.

Which contract(s) are you mad about that put them in this situation? PK's is big, but it was a discount in the market of the time. Jenks? Rios? And who should we have in at those positions instead with lesser contracts?

 

And yeah, I agree, more investment in scouting/development is important, but it sounds like you have more of a problem with KW's budgeting than just that.

[chunk23]

When Dye left, there was a hole in the outfield. Now there is not. You may not like the move, but it's not a hole.

 

 

 

Use a different word then. Having a player to fill a position (quality aside) is not a hole. A hole is just that, a hole.

 

Using the word "hole" in reference to a below average player in a lineup is extremely common. I'm not really sure why you're taking issue with this. Are you really going to be so literal that as long as there is a name on the depth chart, it is not considered a hole?

[macsandz]

Has Damon called Kenny yet begging him to put the offer back on the table?

 

It's over. Kenny played his hand and it's just not gonna top what DET can offer. Damon is not gonna suddenly reconsider. He'll get his dollars from the Tigers and that will be that.

[WCSox]

Yes. They also don't have a 100 million dollar payroll.

 

Neither will the Sox if they don't start winning. If they put up two more .500-ish seasons with $100M payrolls, Kenny very well may pull the plug and deal Peavy, Rios, etc. and start over with the pieces that he gets in return. When the Twins are consistently kicking your ass with 2/3 of the payroll, it's time to rethink your strategy.

 

[WCSox]

It's over. Kenny played his hand and it's just not gonna top what DET can offer. Damon is not gonna suddenly reconsider. He'll get his dollars from the Tigers and that will be that.

 

I agree. The fact that Damon is even considering Detroit shows that he cares a lot more about the money than contending. He's going to take top dollar, and that won't be coming from the Sox.

 

[bmags]

Neither will the Sox if they don't start winning. If they put up two more .500-ish seasons with $100M payrolls, Kenny very well may pull the plug and deal Peavy, Rios, etc. and start over with the pieces that he gets in return. When the Twins are consistently kicking your ass with 2/3 of the payroll, it's time to rethink your strategy.

 

This is my point, yes. Thanks.

[southsideirish71]

Neither will the Sox if they don't start winning. If they put up two more .500-ish seasons with $100M payrolls, Kenny very well may pull the plug and deal Peavy, Rios, etc. and start over with the pieces that he gets in return. When the Twins are consistently kicking your ass with 2/3 of the payroll, it's time to rethink your strategy.

 

 

Well considering that the twins will have a mid 90 million dollar payroll. The strategy has changed.

 

 

 

[macsandz]

KW said there is always another move to make. There was no money for Matsui or Johnson because they are strictly DH's and don't fit into the philosophy the Sox are going with this year. Damon would still have allowed them to rotate players between the DH, OF and 1B. This would not be possible with the other two.

 

THE WHITE SOX ARE NOT GOING TO SIGN A DH ONLY PLAYER.

 

THIS ^^^

[WCSox]

Well considering that the twins will have a mid 90 million dollar payroll. The strategy has changed.

 

Right, I forgot about the new stadium. Don't know how long it'll take for the honeymoon period to wear off, but they'll be in a much better position to spend over the next few seasons.

 

[macsandz]

KW playing chicken with Boras/Damon, it's very risky move. Might've just made the decision for Damn by pissing him off. He might not want to cower to KW's power play, and just say **** it, I'm going to D-town. I'd rather KW just tell them that 6 was the final offer, and keep it in house. He broke his own rule by not staying under the radar. Hopefully it works though.

 

The offer is done and Kenny and the Sox are moving on. I just don't think this is some "strategy". I think it's real. The Sox extended themselves and did the best they could. It's not nearly enough

for Damon/Boras and it ends there. Kenny isn't breaking his own rule. He knows it's over and he discussed what it was and what could have been.

 

The Sox walked away and have a season to prepare for starting tomorrow.

[ptatc]

Even if Jones and Kotsay exceeded everyone's expectations and did well in their DH roles, would anyone be fooled into bringing them back for the spot in 2011?

 

I guarantee, bad or good, those two won't be the DH past this season. And I understand that if both of them did well in their roles they'd probably look for full-time work, but I just feel that there's no excuse for their placement except for Williams not having enough money left over to fill the position. That, of course, is entirely his fault. It's very convenient that he can use the "Ozzie wants these type of players" excuse to justify it.

 

So is the fact that he spent a heck of a lot of money on a very good pitching staff.

 

There is a weakness in the lineup because he spent the money on the pitching.

 

Would you rather have:

 

1. A decent pitching staff with a decent lineup

 

2. A very good pitching staff, with a weak lineup

 

3. A weak pitching staff with a very good lineup.

 

With a budget you can't have a strength at every position. Something has to give.

[Chisoxfn]

Just for what it is worth, this isn't officially dead until Damon signs or Sox pitchers and catchers report.

[Dick Allen]

Just for what it is worth, this isn't officially dead until Damon signs or Sox pitchers and catchers report.

I don't think its officially dead until Damon signs. While KW may say it would be a distraction, do you really think a week from now if Damon told him he'd take the deal he'd say "too late"? Besides, he has taken the distraction out of the equation. Chances are, Damon will sign with someone in the next week. I don't know why you would walk away just because your pitchers and catchers have reported.

[WSoxMatt]

Damon wants the 2 yrs and Detroit is the ONLY team offering him that right

[southsideirish71]

Damon wants the 2 yrs and Detroit is the ONLY team offering him that right

 

Boras wants 2 years and has been flooding the interwebs with crap. Right now Detroit has a single year deal with some money deferred on the table. The minute the sox bow out, all of a sudden mystery teams start showing up. This is classic Boras creating a feeding frenzy where one might not be.

 

 

[MattZakrowski]

So is the fact that he spent a heck of a lot of money on a very good pitching staff.

 

There is a weakness in the lineup because he spent the money on the pitching.

 

Would you rather have:

 

1. A decent pitching staff with a decent lineup

 

2. A very good pitching staff, with a weak lineup

 

3. A weak pitching staff with a very good lineup.

 

With a budget you can't have a strength at every position. Something has to give.

 

Completing a major league roster isn't like choosing a team template in a video game. You should try to put the best players you can at each position, and Damon/Thome/Matsui/Guerrero/Johnson would have been a huge upgrade over the vortex of suck that is Jones/Kotsay.

Edited February 20, 2010 by MattZakrowski

[ScottyDo]

Completing a major league roster isn't like choosing a team template in a video game. You should try to put the best players you can at each position, and Damon/Thome/Matsui/Guerrero/Johnson would have been a huge upgrade over the vortex of suck that is Jones/Kotsay.

I think every time someone mentions Thome as a "shoulda been DH", they should have to put Jones/Thome like they do with Kotsay.