Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[chw42]

worse, he screwed-up our team for the next three years...

 

Yeah, we already know this because he's only played a month for this team in his very first bad season. Let's all worship small sample sizes.

Edited February 22, 2010 by chw42

[Ranger]

This is pure nonsense. Every player has cell phones, Mr. Rongey. Kenny calls our players all the time. Especially the ones based in America.

 

Secondly, we're not talking about a re-negotiation of the entire contract. It's changing the terms of compensation very slightly. It's an addendum being added to the contract that might take 30 minutes maximum to draft. Trust me, it would take no time at all, and it could have been done over the course of the negotiations late last week.

 

Finally, Kenny takes a very aggressive approach with his veterans. He involves them in the direction of the team all the time (just ask DA). He certainly could have approached Jake or Paulie or any number of guys, even at the same time, and given them the low-down. It's really not very unrealistic at all. You're acting as if he would have been asking them to give up their first-born or something.

 

 

With all due respect, you're simply wrong here. It doesn't matter if players have cellphones, they often times make themselves unreachable. Even for agents. I've worked for an agent. I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my backside. You can call the cell phone all you want, but it doens't mean they're going to call you back in a timely manner or that they're going to answer the first 30 times you call. It's different getting ahold of them during the season because you know where they are and know where to find them. It's not like he can gather all the vets in one room and say, "hey guys, now that I have you all here, who wants to change their contract so we can sign Johnny Damon?"

 

You can respond with whatever you like (and I know you will because you're a 'last word' guy), but this is just not a real-world suggestion. The only way it happens is if a player wants to volunteer it. I'm not creating this idea out of thin air, it's based on how real-world baseball stuff works. Having said that, there's really nothing else I can say about it. SO, believe what you want, even if it's wrong.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Ranger

[iamshack]

With all due respect, you're simply wrong here. It matter if players have cellphones, they often times make themselves unreachable. Even for agents. I've worked for an agent. I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my backside. You can call the cell phone all you want, but it doens't mean they're going to call you back in a timely manner or that they're going to answer the first 30 times you call. It's different getting ahold of them during the season because you know where they are and know where to find them. It's not like he can gather all the vets in one room and say, "hey guys, now that I have you all here, who wants to change their contract so we can sign Johnny Damon?"

 

You can respond with whatever you like (and I know you will because you're a 'last word' guy), but this is just not a real-world suggestion. The only way it happens is if a player wants to volunteer it. I'm not creating this idea out of thin air, it's based on how real-world baseball stuff works. Having said that, there's really nothing else I can say about it. SO, believe what you want, even if it's wrong.

Mr. Rongey, I am perfectly happy to admit I am a last word whore.

But as long as we're being open and honest here, why don't you fess up as well, my friend.

 

We've seen players mention numerous times in the press how Kenny has contacted them. And considering the fact that it has been VERY publicized that Kenny and Jake talk, I don't think Kenny would have had a very difficult time getting him on the phone, especially considering he was due to be in Glendale on Sunday.

 

Regardless, my point wasn't so much that Jake or another veteran SHOULD have volunteered to defer the money from their own contracts, my point was that if this was really about the money, and not about principle, than there were other ways to make this signing occur. And push come to shove, I think some of our veterans, if they were willing to talk to the press about wanting a player on our team for the sake of winning, just might be willing to make some sacrifices if their own to make that a reality.

 

 

[ScottyDo]

Mr. Rongey, I am perfectly happy to admit I am a last word whore.

But as long as we're being open and honest here, why don't you fess up as well, my friend.

 

We've seen players mention numerous times in the press how Kenny has contacted them. And considering the fact that it has been VERY publicized that Kenny and Jake talk, I don't think Kenny would have had a very difficult time getting him on the phone, especially considering he was due to be in Glendale on Sunday.

 

Regardless, my point wasn't so much that Jake or another veteran SHOULD have volunteered to defer the money from their own contracts, my point was that if this was really about the money, and not about principle, than there were other ways to make this signing occur. And push come to shove, I think some of our veterans, if they were willing to talk to the press about wanting a player on our team for the sake of winning, just might be willing to make some sacrifices if their own to make that a reality.

I'm not sure valuing a player differently than another team does, monetarily, is quite "operating on principle". It's operating on an economic principle (a sound one, in my opinion), but not an intrinsic emotional one.

 

That's just my take on the whole series of events. I don't think this was a "go screw yourself, boras" thing or a "we need rotating DH's at all costs" thing, but an "all things considered, damon's contract is worth $___ to us" thing.

[Ranger]

Mr. Rongey, I am perfectly happy to admit I am a last word whore.

But as long as we're being open and honest here, why don't you fess up as well, my friend.

 

We've seen players mention numerous times in the press how Kenny has contacted them. And considering the fact that it has been VERY publicized that Kenny and Jake talk, I don't think Kenny would have had a very difficult time getting him on the phone, especially considering he was due to be in Glendale on Sunday.

 

Regardless, my point wasn't so much that Jake or another veteran SHOULD have volunteered to defer the money from their own contracts, my point was that if this was really about the money, and not about principle, than there were other ways to make this signing occur. And push come to shove, I think some of our veterans, if they were willing to talk to the press about wanting a player on our team for the sake of winning, just might be willing to make some sacrifices if their own to make that a reality.

 

Yes Kenny has called playrs during an offseason, but has he told you how long it's taken to get these players on the phone? Has he told you that? Has he told you that every player he calls answers the phone right away? Or has he told you that sometimes it takes a couple of weeks to get ahold of guys, and not even their agents can find them? And I'd like for you to tell me how -- in the actual professional baseball world -- this would work when you finally did get one of these guys on the phone. I mean, who gets to be the player that you ask to restructure? The first one that calls you back? And do you say, "hey Johnny, just hang tight for a minute, don't sign with the Tigers just yet because we're trying to reshuffle some things over here." Factor in what you know about agents, professional ballplayers (who, by the way, are operating in a completely different world than the rest of us), and the union, and then enlighten us as to how this might actually work and how you think this would get done in a matter of hours.

 

There's really a difference between having to say the last thing just for the sake of making the last comment, and refuting an hypothetical idea that's not based in reality. About the subject, I can say nothing else. I've given you the facts of the business regarding asking players to restructure. Feel free to be confident in your opinion that has no real-world application. You are more than welcome to do that.

[Ranger]

I'm not sure valuing a player differently than another team does, monetarily, is quite "operating on principle". It's operating on an economic principle (a sound one, in my opinion), but not an intrinsic emotional one.

 

That's just my take on the whole series of events. I don't think this was a "go screw yourself, boras" thing or a "we need rotating DH's at all costs" thing, but an "all things considered, damon's contract is worth $___ to us" thing.

 

It's not about principle. It's about them saying they don't think it makes sense for them to pay Johnny Damon $8 million for one season, and have to pay it all within this year's payroll.

[Kyyle23]

What's your problem? You got the Monday blues? I never said he has to hit .400 the first month. The guy needs to produce at the money he's making, not be a Brian Anderson, all D and no offense. Rios is easy to hate. He needs to change it and fast.

 

My problem is your neverending pessimism regarding anything that has to do with the Sox players, and conversely your optimism about players walking out the door. My problem is that Rios had a bad year last year, admittedly from Rios and everyone within the White Sox and Blue Jays organizations, yet he isnt allowed to have a bad year because.....well just because. Rios is young, he has been an all star already, his defense is superior to everyone on the team, and he get a fresh start.

 

You ask me what my problem is, after you just buried Rios just like you have buried so many players? What is your problem? I am not allowed to inject a little sarcasm? Why do I have to listen to you wax poetic about how Thome will kill us, and Dye will hit us hard, and oh-my-god this(pick one) ex white sox player is on the Royals so he is going to want to kill us everytime he plays us, dear lord the season is over.

 

 

[iamshack]

Yes Kenny has called playrs during an offseason, but has he told you how long it's taken to get these players on the phone? Has he told you that? Has he told you that every player he calls answers the phone right away? Or has he told you that sometimes it takes a couple of weeks to get ahold of guys, and not even their agents can find them? And I'd like for you to tell me how -- in the actual professional baseball world -- this would work when you finally did get one of these guys on the phone. I mean, who gets to be the player that you ask to restructure? The first one that calls you back? And do you say, "hey Johnny, just hang tight for a minute, don't sign with the Tigers just yet because we're trying to reshuffle some things over here." Factor in what you know about agents, professional ballplayers (who, by the way, are operating in a completely different world than the rest of us), and the union, and then enlighten us as to how this might actually work and how you think this would get done in a matter of hours.

 

There's really a difference between having to say the last thing just for the sake of making the last comment, and refuting an hypothetical idea that's not based in reality. About the subject, I can say nothing else. I've given you the facts of the business regarding asking players to restructure. Feel free to be confident in your opinion that has no real-world application. You are more than welcome to do that.

Ok, slow down here, Mr. Rongey.

 

Explain to all of us, enlighten us, if you will, what makes you qualified to know "the facts of the business regarding asking players to restructure"?

 

 

[Ranger]

Ok, slow down here, Mr. Rongey.

 

Explain to all of us, enlighten us, if you will, what makes you qualified to know "the facts of the business regarding asking players to restructure"?

 

 

You're right. I guess I don't do this for a living or anything. My apologies. Carry on.

[iamshack]

You're right. I guess I don't do this for a living or anything. My apologies. Carry on.

Mr. Rongey, no offense intended, but as far as I am aware, you are the pre and post game host for Chicago White Sox games on the Score radio station, correct?

 

Again, no disrespect intended here, but you are not a MLB player. You are not an agent for an MLB player. You are not currently employed by the front offices of any Major League teams. You are not currently employed in any offices of Major League Baseball.

 

In what field would you say that you are employed?

[ScottyDo]

Mr. Rongey, no offense intended, but as far as I am aware, you are the pre and post game host for Chicago White Sox games on the Score radio station, correct?

 

Again, no disrespect intended here, but you are not a MLB player. You are not an agent for an MLB player. You are not currently employed by the front offices of any Major League teams. You are not currently employed in any offices of Major League Baseball.

In what field would you say that you are employed?

Is this an office space reference?

[iamshack]

Is this an office space reference?

If it is, it was not intentional.

[Ranger]

Mr. Rongey, no offense intended, but as far as I am aware, you are the pre and post game host for Chicago White Sox games on the Score radio station, correct?

 

Again, no disrespect intended here, but you are not a MLB player. You are not an agent for an MLB player. You are not currently employed by the front offices of any Major League teams. You are not currently employed in any offices of Major League Baseball.

 

In what field would you say that you are employed?

 

It's my job to know this s***. What do you think I do when I am at the park and in the clubhouse for 81 games? Take pictures?

 

And while I don't hear every single thing that happens, when I say something with confidence it's because I know it to be true, not because I'm speculating. When I'm guessing, I'll tell you I'm guessing. I also know some players, scouts, coaches, front office employees (not just in Chicago) very well, and I know and have heard things that I could never mention because the source would be obvious. Like I said, I have also worked in an agency before, I know for a fact (this is not guessing) how difficult it is to get in touch with players sometimes. I know because I've made the calls myself and I watched my superiors make the calls and have seen their frustration. And if a player isn't going to call his agent back right away, who is he going to call? I also know that sometimes it is very difficult for the front office/coaches to get ahold of players during an offseason (and sometimes in-season when a player is away from the team recovering from an injury, for example) because they complain privately about it.

 

I don't have to be employed in a front office or be a Major Leaguer to know this stuff, dude. Relationships matter.

[BigSqwert]

*grabs a bag of Orville Redenbacher microwave popcorn and proceeds to sit down, relax, and strap it down*

[BigSqwert]

And by strap it down I am referring to Boner from Growing Pains. I have kidnapped him. Carry on.

[Ranger]

And by strap it down I am referring to Boner from Growing Pains. I have kidnapped him. Carry on.

 

That situation is not good. I just can't imagine that it will end any other way than him being found dead somewhere, especially if he's battling depression. Sad.

[BigSqwert]

That situation is not good. I just can't imagine that it will end any other way than him being found dead somewhere, especially if he's battling depression. Sad.

Yeah hopefully it all turns out ok.

[iamshack]

It's my job to know this s***. What do you think I do when I am at the park and in the clubhouse for 81 games? Take pictures?

 

And while I don't hear every single thing that happens, when I say something with confidence it's because I know it to be true, not because I'm speculating. When I'm guessing, I'll tell you I'm guessing. I also know some players, scouts, coaches, front office employees (not just in Chicago) very well, and I know and have heard things that I could never mention because the source would be obvious. Like I said, I have also worked in an agency before, I know for a fact (this is not guessing) how difficult it is to get in touch with players sometimes. I know because I've made the calls myself and I watched my superiors make the calls and have seen their frustration. And if a player isn't going to call his agent back right away, who is he going to call? I also know that sometimes it is very difficult for the front office/coaches to get ahold of players during an offseason (and sometimes in-season when a player is away from the team recovering from an injury, for example) because they complain privately about it.

 

I don't have to be employed in a front office or be a Major Leaguer to know this stuff, dude. Relationships matter.

That is all very relevant and great, Mr. Rongey.

 

But guess what? Posters here don't have to work for the Score or be at the ballpark to hear and know things either. And yet you treat many of their opinions as irrelevant or inaccurate because they don't hold some publicly-known position.

 

How do you know what I know? How do you know who I know? I know current players and ex-players, and I know people who know other celebrities and entertainers, and I happen to know that it is quite simple to get in touch with many of them simply by calling their cellphone. Especially when the call is coming from one of their bosses or someone who completely and utterly controls the fate of their current employment situation.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

While I don't know anything about players deferring money for Damon, don't know if anyone would be up for it, or if its even allowed, and imagine it may be a can of worms that both sides might want to avoid for several reasons, because in essence, its a re-negotiation, and what will stop the player who sacrificed if he has a good year and the payroll is lower the next year for not asking for a raise, if the big problem was it was tough to contact a player, its not like KW would have to get any of the players on the first try in order for it to happen. These negotiations dragged on forever. I would imagine KW would call the agent.

[wsgdf_2]

It's not about principle. It's about them saying they don't think it makes sense for them to pay Johnny Damon $8 million for one season, and have to pay it all within this year's payroll.

 

 

DING DING DING!!

[caulfield12]

Am I an expert because I once hung up on The Coach, Tom Landry, lol?

 

It's hit or miss during the offseason, I'll agree with that. Some players consider themselves full-time members of the organization and will bend over backwards to take a phone call, go to the hospital to visit a kid with a terminal illness or fulfill a personal request. Just look at the example of some of the squad (like Beckham) showing up early for ST.

 

I do think it's kind of akward to ask players to do this, especially when the players and agents always argue the owners are making so much profit, the mentality is that why should I sacrifice if my owner isn't willing to do so? I'm sure none of the players or agents will ever be privy to the actual, up to the minute financial position of the White Sox organization. It's fluid. One week we're hearing $4 million is available, the next that we're giving Damon more than that (plus money deferred), it's pretty hard to know who is telling the truth. Then you have the argument that Damon wasn't/isn't an "impact" player and that's the reason they pulled out of the negotiations, etc.

 

If this happened quietly, behind the scenes...during the heat of the pennant race, I would be surprised if JR went to one of the players like Konerko or Buehrle that they wouldn't at least think about trying to restructure their contract (deferring money) to bring in someone who could help the team in the present. A lot of the players like Paulie, Mark, Thome (last year, when he was making $12-13 million) and AJ have been around long enough that they know JR would take care of them down the line if he promised to do so. Now, asking someone like Rios, I wouldn't go near that with a 10 foot pole, he's already sensitive/touchy about his contract and performance last year. Same thing with Jenks.

 

The fact remains that maybe some of those guys don't really like Damon that much, and wouldn't care whether he got an extra $1-2 million or not, coming off the contract he had in NY, and also the way he handled negotiations, overestimating his market value.

 

If they were bringing back Juan Uribe, there's definitely a group of players who all would have figured out a way to get it done financially if JR approached them and said the team was at the breaking point in terms of payroll. (Although I doubt that will ever happen).

[Big Hurtin]

And by strap it down I am referring to Boner from Growing Pains. I have kidnapped him. Carry on.

 

Are you going to whack him?

[knightni]

Whack a Boner...?

[Big Hurtin]

Whack a Boner...?

 

Yeah, like rub him out.

[Dick Allen]

Am I an expert because I once hung up on The Coach, Tom Landry, lol?

 

It's hit or miss during the offseason, I'll agree with that. Some players consider themselves full-time members of the organization and will bend over backwards to take a phone call, go to the hospital to visit a kid with a terminal illness or fulfill a personal request. Just look at the example of some of the squad (like Beckham) showing up early for ST.

 

I do think it's kind of akward to ask players to do this, especially when the players and agents always argue the owners are making so much profit, the mentality is that why should I sacrifice if my owner isn't willing to do so? I'm sure none of the players or agents will ever be privy to the actual, up to the minute financial position of the White Sox organization. It's fluid. One week we're hearing $4 million is available, the next that we're giving Damon more than that (plus money deferred), it's pretty hard to know who is telling the truth. Then you have the argument that Damon wasn't/isn't an "impact" player and that's the reason they pulled out of the negotiations, etc.

 

If this happened quietly, behind the scenes...during the heat of the pennant race, I would be surprised if JR went to one of the players like Konerko or Buehrle that they wouldn't at least think about trying to restructure their contract (deferring money) to bring in someone who could help the team in the present. A lot of the players like Paulie, Mark, Thome (last year, when he was making $12-13 million) and AJ have been around long enough that they know JR would take care of them down the line if he promised to do so. Now, asking someone like Rios, I wouldn't go near that with a 10 foot pole, he's already sensitive/touchy about his contract and performance last year. Same thing with Jenks.

 

The fact remains that maybe some of those guys don't really like Damon that much, and wouldn't care whether he got an extra $1-2 million or not, coming off the contract he had in NY, and also the way he handled negotiations, overestimating his market value.

 

If they were bringing back Juan Uribe, there's definitely a group of players who all would have figured out a way to get it done financially if JR approached them and said the team was at the breaking point in terms of payroll. (Although I doubt that will ever happen).

 

Yeah, I think asking them would be akward. Now if they volunteered.............................................