Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[gatnom]

Are the Twins really the favorite on a home grass field? That has been a team made for the Metrodome confines for years. Maybe it will translate onto grass, but I'll have to see it first to believe it.

 

I'll have to see the Twins completely suck on grass to believe that too. I know we always got killed there, but everybody seems to have this point of view that the Metrodome was this magic place that only helped the Twins and hurt their opponents.

Edited February 8, 2010 by gatnom

[DirtySox]

Are the Twins really the favorite on a home grass field? That has been a team made for the Metrodome confines for years. Maybe it will translate onto grass, but I'll have to see it first to believe it.

 

What needs to translate? The team as currently constructed is full of thunder, which is conducive to the new park. They don't need to slap hit their way to small ball wins.

[daggins]

The Twins are definitely not a scrappy slap-hitting offense anymore (I kind of doubt they ever were). The middle of their lineup is pretty beastly. Morneau/Mauer/Kubel/Cuddyer/Thome is an awful lot of power. With that in mind, I fail to see how the grass is going to make their offense worse.

 

I am not sure how the outfield defense will be affected by the grass but I can only imagine, given what i've heard about playing on turf, that it should improve marginally or be static.

 

Imagine the irony of a Twins team being blasted by their fanbase for being station to station base cloggers.

[joeynach]

Are we in trouble? Yes, we certainly could be. The Twins have a better offense on paper than us, a better bullpen on paper than us, and a better defense on paper than us. The Sox have better starting pitching on paper than the Twins.

 

Would signing Damon change that? Well, it wouldn't change the bullpen, it would probably make the defense worse if anything. Would it be an upgrade with the bats? Yes. How much of an upgrade? That, I don't know. While he's still a good player, Damon last year put up career numbers in a ballpark almost perfectly tailored to his skill set, and he's still going to be a 36 year old this year. His speed isn't much to write home about any more.

 

Is he an upgrade over Kotsay against RHP? Last year he put up an .889 OPS against them, so probably, although Kotsay put up solid numbers in his 2 month stint with the Sox. Is he an upgrade over Jones against LHP? Last year, he put up a .776 OPS against LHP, so probably not.

 

Signing Damon would be, IMO, a small to moderate improvement with the bats. Is it a game-changer? No. Is the Twins signing Hudson a game-changer? No. One line drive off a pitcher's elbow or an odd step by Mauer running to 1b and the season totally changes.

 

You're sick of talking football, I'm sick of being angry about our DH situation, so I'm just going to live with it and hope either Jones and Kotsay step up big time or KW can make a move midseason to fill that hole.

 

Off paper the twins have one crucial aspect this year, their new ballpark. From all projections its going to play small, perhaps such as Citzens Bank. The twins tend to struggle a bit in outdoor stadiums that play small becuase they are very few opportunities to take advantage of slap and run, let the ball roll to the wall, type plays. It should be interesting to see how they adjust. They have plenty of power in their 3/4/5 combo, but outside of that they dont have supporting players with decent pop like we do. Outside of our Konerko/Quentin/Rios/Jones we have supporting cast such as Tehean, Alexi, Bechkam, and AJ that can all easily pop 15 HRs, the twins dont.

[Dick Allen]

I don't think signing Damon would be to negate anything Minnesota does. It makes the White Sox a better team.

[joeynach]

I don't think signing Damon would be to negate anything Minnesota does. It makes the White Sox a better team.

 

Of course it does..damon would probably be good for .285/20/80 in our lineup and ballpark. Which really isnt that far off from what Thome did last year with 23 HR and 88 RBI.

[longshot7]

No, the Twins were already the favorites to win the central, Hudson just increases the chances.

 

Just like Vizquel improves ours. Give me a break.

 

They're the favorites (and they should be) because of Mauer & Morneau, not because of OC.

[macsandz]

I'll have to see the Twins completely suck on grass to believe that too. I know we always got killed there, but everybody seems to have this point of view that the Metrodome was this magic place that only helped the Twins and hurt their opponents.

The Twins have been a terrible road team the past few years. Their new park is essentially gonna be a road park for them for at least next season or two.

That is a huge factor not enough people are considering here...

[Dick Allen]

The Twins have been a terrible road team the past few years. Their new park is essentially gonna be a road park for them for at least next season or two.

That is a huge factor not enough people are considering here...

I disagree. They have changed their team. It isn't Nick Punto beating you with a bunt that somehow plates 2 and gets him to third anymore. There isn't one game in the Metrodome last year you could say the reason the Sox lost was because of the strangeness of the stadium. You probably could say they were defeated before the game started several times, hopefully that will change. Who knows what will happen with Target Field. They seem to be stacking up LH power hitters, so they probably know something. The Sox don't have many of those. It may be a disadvantage.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Dick Allen

[macsandz]

I disagree. They have changed their team. It isn't Nick Punto beating you with a bunt that somehow plates 2 and gets him to third anymore. There isn't one game in the Metrodome last year you could say the reason the Sox lost was because of the strangeness of the stadium. You probably could say they were defeated before the game started several times, hopefully that will change. Who knows what will happen with Target Field. They seem to be stacking up LH power hitters, so they probably know something. The Sox don't have many of those. It may be a disadvantage.

 

You can't disagree with fact. The Twins have been a terrible road team for years. The Twins dome advantage is obvious and well established. Ask Detroit about that Game 163.

[Dick Allen]

You can't disagree with fact. The Twins have been a terrible road team for years. The Twins dome advantage is obvious and well established. Ask Detroit about that Game 163.

But that doesn't mean Target Field is a road game for them. Most teams are more successful at home. Its not always the park. I think adding seasoned pros and limiting playing time for guys like Punto will only help them on the road and in their new park.

 

BTW they were better on the road than the White Sox in 2006,2007 and 2009. They were 1/2 game worse than the White Sox in 2008.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Dick Allen

[macsandz]

But that doesn't mean Target Field is a road game for them. Most teams are more successful at home. Its not always the park. I think adding seasoned pros and limiting playing time for guys like Punto will only help them on the road and in their new park.

 

You have GOT to admit moving out of a dome and into an open ball park in what is the climate of Canada is gonna have an effect on a team.

"Seasoned Pros" is another name for old and declining which Thome, Hudson and Pavano are. Nick Punto is the starting 3B. If it's not him it's Harris, who is even worse.

[macsandz]

 

 

"BTW they were better on the road than the White Sox in 2006,2007 and 2009. They were 1/2 game worse than the White Sox in 2008."

 

So?

 

[Dick Allen]

"BTW they were better on the road than the White Sox in 2006,2007 and 2009. They were 1/2 game worse than the White Sox in 2008."

 

So?

You said they were a horrible road team. They won more road games than any other AL Central team last year. As a matter of fact, over the past 4 years only the Tigers have won more road games in the AL Central than Minnesota. As long as you have Mauer and Morneau in their primes, you have a pretty decent shot, especially considering they have other talent. If the Sox had another legit starter who could hit, I would give them a slight nod. As for Minneapolis being like Canada, its really not much different from Chicago from April through October, and if it is an ice box, like you suggest, wouldn't playing in it regularly give you an advantage over those who don't?

[Dick Allen]

You have GOT to admit moving out of a dome and into an open ball park in what is the climate of Canada is gonna have an effect on a team.

"Seasoned Pros" is another name for old and declining which Thome, Hudson and Pavano are. Nick Punto is the starting 3B. If it's not him it's Harris, who is even worse.

We love a team that appears to be going with an Andruw Jones/Mark Kotsay tandem DH. Giving another roster grief for depending on declining players would be like Cub fans laughing at guys in pink polos with their collars up.

[iamshack]

I agree it will be interesting to see how they adjust to their new park. I think both of you guys are making valid points, one of which is they will be unfamiliar with the park; the other is that they have steadily been changing their roster to favor more of a slugging approach.

 

The Yankees struggled a bit in the first year in their new park, before going on a tear there and winning 36 of their last 42 or something (IIRC).

 

It'll be interesting to see how much remains of the Twins' fundamental approach now that more members of their lineup will be in "slugging mode."

[gatnom]

You have GOT to admit moving out of a dome and into an open ball park in what is the climate of Canada is gonna have an effect on a team.

"Seasoned Pros" is another name for old and declining which Thome, Hudson and Pavano are. Nick Punto is the starting 3B. If it's not him it's Harris, who is even worse.

 

The visiting team does happen to play on the same field as the Twins.

[ThunderBolt]

Just like Vizquel improves ours. Give me a break.

 

They're the favorites (and they should be) because of Mauer & Morneau, not because of OC.

Are you really trying to equate Omar Visquel and Orlando Hudson? That discussion might have had meaning a decade ago, but it's ludicrous at this point to argue that Visquel will have even a 1/4th of the impact that Orlando Hudson will have starting EVERYDAY for the Twins. Hudson is twice the offensive player then Visquel ever was, and ever will be.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Thunderbolt

[macsandz]

You said they were a horrible road team. They won more road games than any other AL Central team last year. As a matter of fact, over the past 4 years only the Tigers have won more road games in the AL Central than Minnesota. As long as you have Mauer and Morneau in their primes, you have a pretty decent shot, especially considering they have other talent. If the Sox had another legit starter who could hit, I would give them a slight nod. As for Minneapolis being like Canada, its really not much different from Chicago from April through October, and if it is an ice box, like you suggest, wouldn't playing in it regularly give you an advantage over those who don't?

 

I live in Chicago, but work out of Minnesota several weeks a year. If you think a city that is 410 miles north is not a lot more frigid, you are seriously crazy.

 

I think the Twins will suffer the adjustment of losing their home advantage. I also think that the fact that they are a poor road team will also factor into a weak record next season.

MIN no longer has an extreme home field advantage with the turf, the blind ceiling and the noise factor. A team whose home indoor stadium that gave them that edge will suffer an adjustment period to both the outdoor climate and the new stadium itself.

 

How the Sox and Tigers played on the road has nothing to do with the fact that the Twins consistently struggled away from the advantages of the Dome they no longer have. They no longer have the

comfort of home that other teams have to offset the road struggles the way they have in the past.

 

Not having at least 20 games with a controlled a climate when other rivals couldn't in April/May also should factor into a slow start.

 

 

 

[macsandz]

We love a team that appears to be going with an Andruw Jones/Mark Kotsay tandem DH. Giving another roster grief for depending on declining players would be like Cub fans laughing at guys in pink polos with their collars up.

 

The Sox will play Kotsay/Jones interchangeably one a time. The Twins are counting on Hudson as a starting 2B and Pavano as a starting pitcher.

Big difference.

[macsandz]

I agree it will be interesting to see how they adjust to their new park. I think both of you guys are making valid points, one of which is they will be unfamiliar with the park; the other is that they have steadily been changing their roster to favor more of a slugging approach.

 

The Yankees struggled a bit in the first year in their new park, before going on a tear there and winning 36 of their last 42 or something (IIRC).

 

It'll be interesting to see how much remains of the Twins' fundamental approach now that more members of their lineup will be in "slugging mode."

\

 

Moving across the street in NY is a lot easier than leaving a Dome and adjusting your approach to a totally different outdoor environment.

[ThunderBolt]

The Sox will play Kotsay/Jones interchangeably one a time. The Twins are counting on Hudson as a starting 2B and Pavano as a starting pitcher.

Big difference.

They were counting on players with a hell of a lot less talent then Hudson and Pavano to win the division last year.

[iamshack]

\

 

Moving across the street in NY is a lot easier than leaving a Dome and adjusting your approach to a totally different outdoor environment.

I agree, but it's not like they have never played baseball outdoors before.

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

I agree, but it's not like they have never played baseball outdoors before.

Not to mention that Mauer grew up playing outside in Minny, Mauer in Canada, Thome in Illinois, and Cuddyer in Virgina. None of these guys will freeze to death with a little fresh air.

[Dick Allen]

I live in Chicago, but work out of Minnesota several weeks a year. If you think a city that is 410 miles north is not a lot more frigid, you are seriously crazy.

 

I think the Twins will suffer the adjustment of losing their home advantage. I also think that the fact that they are a poor road team will also factor into a weak record next season.

MIN no longer has an extreme home field advantage with the turf, the blind ceiling and the noise factor. A team whose home indoor stadium that gave them that edge will suffer an adjustment period to both the outdoor climate and the new stadium itself.

 

How the Sox and Tigers played on the road has nothing to do with the fact that the Twins consistently struggled away from the advantages of the Dome they no longer have. They no longer have the

comfort of home that other teams have to offset the road struggles the way they have in the past.

 

Not having at least 20 games with a controlled a climate when other rivals couldn't in April/May also should factor into a slow start.

From the Weather channel

AVG high temps.

city apr may june july aug sep oct

min 57 70 79 83 80 71 58

chi 59 70 80 84 83 76 64

 

Its a little chillier, but not the Arctic in January. If the Twins win more games on the road than the other teams, which they have, they don't have to win as many at home, but if the weather is as big of factor as you say it is (it isn't) then they would have an advantage there as well. BTW, Minneapolis is not 410 miles N of Chicago. It may be 410 miles away but its pretty far west.