Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[Dick Allen]

The Sox will play Kotsay/Jones interchangeably one a time. The Twins are counting on Hudson as a starting 2B and Pavano as a starting pitcher.

Big difference.

Hudson made the All Star team last year. You make him out to be a bum. He's not as good as Andruw Jones, a guy who strikes out all the time and has hit .207 the last 3 years or Mark Kotsay a guy who was DFA'd by Boston last year, but is loved because he had several meaningless hits for the White Sox last September? I agree, the Twins are crazy if they are counting on Pavano, but you could probably say the same thing about Freddy Garcia. I think it will be a tight race, I just hope the Sox get some more offense. They only won 8 times last year scoring less than 4 runs.

[bmags]

They only won 8 times last year scoring less than 4 runs.

 

Holy s***.

[scenario]

The Twins have enough power to play outdoors.

 

But I will be VERY interested to see how they play outside in April.

 

There won't be a colder ballpark in MLB in the first month of the season.

Edited February 9, 2010 by scenario

[macsandz]

The Twins have enough power to play outdoors.

 

But I will be VERY interested to see how the they play outside in April.

 

There won't be a colder ballpark in MLB in the first month of the season.

 

Three of the Sox series in April will be played indoors. (TB,SEA,TOR).

 

NONE of the Twins will.

[Dick Allen]

Cleveland and Minneapolis have the same average temperatures in April. Chicago and Detroit average about 2 degrees warmer. Milwaukee actually averages 2 degrees colder, but they have a dome. I think though, that may surprise people.

 

I'm sure there will be some weather related problems in Minnesota in at least some Aprils, but to think they will be shoveling out 2 feet of snow until June is wrong.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Dick Allen

[scenario]

Cleveland and Minneapolis have the same average temperatures in April. Chicago and Detroit average about 2 degrees warmer.

 

I don't know what their average temperatures are.

 

But I do alot of work in Minneapolis and I know I freeze my a** off up there in April.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

I don't know what their average temperatures are.

 

But I do alot of work in Minneapolis and I know I freeze my a** off up there in April.

And you freeze your ass off in Chicago in April, and in Detroit and Cleveland and Boston, and New York.

[scenario]

And you freeze your ass off in Chicago in April, and in Detroit and Cleveland and Boston, and New York.

 

I'm from Chicago. I went to college in Milwaukee. Minneapolis in April is colder. Hands down.

 

If you want to argue this point, are you doing it from personal experience... or do you just feel like arguing?

 

Edited February 9, 2010 by scenario

[Dick Allen]

I'm from Chicago. I went to college in Milwaukee. Minneapolis in April is colder. Hands down.

 

If you want to argue this point, are you doing it from personal experience... or do you just feel like arguing?

I'm not arguing. Just stating facts. You are arguing, telling me the facts are lies because you say so. Go to weather.com and get the average temperatures in April. Of the 3, Chicago is the warmest on average by 2 degrees over Minneapolis, and Minneapolis is warmer by 2 degrees over Milwaukee. In fact, Minneapolis is virtually the same with Cleveland. I've lived in Chicago most of my life although I went to school in a place that was colder, Iowa. Have been to Milwaukee and Minneapolis quite a bit. Personally, I don't think they should be playing many home games in these cities in April, except Milwaukee with its dome. Someone did a study on these cities over 50 years to determine miserable baseball days in April. Cleveland was at 6.5%. Chicago 4.1%. They said Minneapolis was 7.1%. The study determined if they didn't play at home before April 10, the miserable baseball days index goes down 80% in Cleveland and Chicago. 70% in Minneapolis. The Twins home opener is April 12, so that would take it down to approx. 2%.

[shakes]

I disagree. They have changed their team. It isn't Nick Punto beating you with a bunt that somehow plates 2 and gets him to third anymore. There isn't one game in the Metrodome last year you could say the reason the Sox lost was because of the strangeness of the stadium. You probably could say they were defeated before the game started several times, hopefully that will change. Who knows what will happen with Target Field. They seem to be stacking up LH power hitters, so they probably know something. The Sox don't have many of those. It may be a disadvantage.

 

 

They have changed their team drastically. As a whole, their team is probably going to be slow and powerful. The defense will take a step back.

 

Just look at the middle infielders they acquired. They are probably the slowest SS, and slowest 2b in the league. They are both still good defenders, but don't cover a whole lot of ground. A lot of balls are going to get through the holes, and a lot of balls are going to land in the OF with the corner outfielders they are planning on playing. I haven't seen enough of Span to know what he'll be like full time in CF. Speed and defense no longer come first for the Twins.

 

They are basically going to try and slug teams to death. It's kind of a total role reversal.

 

I'm sure they know how the new park will play out, and that's why they've adjusted.

 

It's hard to say what kind of effect the new park will have, but I'm sure their bats will be effected a bit in the weather. The Sox have struggled to hit in April, as have the Indians, and Tigers in the past. I expect that to happen to the Twins. They are also playing mainly day games in April(you were talking about average highs, but you forgot to mention average lows in the low 30's, hence the day games). It's a big adjustment. The Twins played almost 100 games in a dome last year. Nobody can say with any certainty how it will play out, but it will be different.

[ThunderBolt]

It's very simple. It's not about the weather, it's not about the dome. It's two things. The Twins have improved their team, we haven't. The Twins won the division last year, we didn't.

[scenario]

I'm not arguing. Just stating facts. You are arguing, telling me the facts are lies because you say so. Go to weather.com and get the average temperatures in April. Of the 3, Chicago is the warmest on average by 2 degrees over Minneapolis, and Minneapolis is warmer by 2 degrees over Milwaukee.

 

That's because they're comparing average high (daytime) temperatures... not average low (nighttime) temperatures. The low is consistently lower in Minneapolis. And when they play night games outside, that's what they're going to be dealing with.

 

For example... this week the high temperature in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis is projected to be pretty similar... all in the mid-20's.

 

The lows? Much different.

The low in Milwaukee tonight... 18.

The low in Chicago tonight... 20

The low in Minneapolis tonight... 3.

 

So... no, the facts are not lies. But this is a great example of how facts (like using data on average temperatures) can be misleading.

 

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

It's very simple. It's not about the weather, it's not about the dome. It's two things. The Twins have improved their team, we haven't. The Twins won the division last year, we didn't.

It's not 100% impossible that the Sox have improved their team. It's also not 100% impossible that the Twins played over their heads last season and the Sox played well under them.

[clyons]

The Twins have improved their team, we haven't.

 

If you want to say the Twins have improved themselves more than the White Sox that's one thing, but I don't know how you can say the White Sox haven't improved their team from last year. Our bench is much deeper and our outfield defense should be significantly improved. Jake Peavy will make more than three starts. I think DH is a huge question mark, but not enough to off set these other improvements. I don't know whether they will be enough, but to say we haven't improved seems wrong.

[Balta1701]

I don't know whether they will be enough, but to say we haven't improved seems wrong.

And if we could get a Healthy Carlos Quentin, that's adding an MVP candidate right there.

[shakes]

It's very simple. It's not about the weather, it's not about the dome. It's two things. The Twins have improved their team, we haven't. The Twins won the division last year, we didn't.

 

The controlled temperature is a huge part of the dome, so it is also about the weather.

 

I have no idea how you think the Sox haven't improved their team from last year.

 

The Twins haven't addressed their biggest weakness which is the starting pitching, and their defense may be weaker. The offense is improved, but that was a strength already.

 

Why are so many people ignoring their starting pitching? It was one of the worst staffs in the AL, and has done nothing to improve. They also lose the advantage over visiting hitters in the dome, and have question marks with their defense.

 

If the Sox had their rotatation I would be very pessimistic about their chances.

 

 

[Balta1701]

The Twins haven't addressed their biggest weakness which is the starting pitching, and their defense may be weaker. The offense is improved, but that was a strength already.

 

Why are so many people ignoring their starting pitching? It was one of the worst staffs in the AL, and has done nothing to improve. They also lose the advantage over visiting hitters in the dome, and have question marks with their defense.

Unfortunately, I can also argue against this, although this will be why they play the games. There are a number of issues one can bring up that are decent arguments for why the Twins rotation this year will be better than last year.

 

1. Injury. They lost Slowey after 90 innings last year. He's expected to be ready for ST.

 

2. Duensing, who was their best pitcher overall in the innings he pitched, was a mid-season callup last year and will be there for a full season this year. He put up their best ERA in their rotation, 3.64, but only got 84 innings.

 

3. Pavano will be there for a full year, if he stays healthy. This isn't like adding a Cy Young winner, but if he simply repeats his last season, that adds depth to their rotation that it didn't have to start last year.

 

4. The dome actually didn't help the Twins last year. Most teams put up better ERA's at home than on the road. The Twins had virtually the same ERA on the road and at home. The Twins starting rotation had one of the best ERA's in the league on the road and one of the worst ERA's in in the league at home. It's entirely possible that moving out of the dome could therefore bring benefits to the Twins rotation rather than harm.

 

These points may all be proven wrong easily by another injury or a struggling pitcher and I'm not 100% convinced by any of them. But just as there are reasons to think the Sox offense underperformed last year, one can argue that the Twins starters underperformed last year.

[Buehrlesque]

Back on to Damon for a second. Did you guys see the latest reason why, according to Boras, he should sign with the Tigers?

 

Because he likes octopus.

 

Man, this guy is looking more and more ridiculous and desperate by the day.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Unfortunately, I can also argue against this, although this will be why they play the games. There are a number of issues one can bring up that are decent arguments for why the Twins rotation this year will be better than last year.

 

1. Injury. They lost Slowey after 90 innings last year. He's expected to be ready for ST.

 

2. Duensing, who was their best pitcher overall in the innings he pitched, was a mid-season callup last year and will be there for a full season this year. He put up their best ERA in their rotation, 3.64, but only got 84 innings.

 

3. Pavano will be there for a full year, if he stays healthy. This isn't like adding a Cy Young winner, but if he simply repeats his last season, that adds depth to their rotation that it didn't have to start last year.

 

4. The dome actually didn't help the Twins last year. Most teams put up better ERA's at home than on the road. The Twins had virtually the same ERA on the road and at home. The Twins starting rotation had one of the best ERA's in the league on the road and one of the worst ERA's in in the league at home. It's entirely possible that moving out of the dome could therefore bring benefits to the Twins rotation rather than harm.

 

These points may all be proven wrong easily by another injury or a struggling pitcher and I'm not 100% convinced by any of them. But just as there are reasons to think the Sox offense underperformed last year, one can argue that the Twins starters underperformed last year.

 

 

Pavano would have had very close to a 4 ERA if it wasn't for one of his starts being disastrous. He was very solid, nobody expected him to come close to pitching like a 3rd or even 4th starter at the beginning of the year....maybe the one smart move Shapiro made was in acquiring him last offseason on the cheap.

 

The Twins have lots of "strike throwers" and that will be a huge advantage in the colder weather because not as many runs will score due to walks/runners not earning their way on base.

 

Blackburn is tough. Perkins has a great arm....and you never know what you're going to get with Liriano, although the odds of his returning to 2006 form diminish by the year. This will be his "make or break" year IMO.

 

Baker really struggled for most of the year, but he's a lot like Floyd, he has the ability to be a front-line starter, at the very least a 2.

 

So you go:

 

Baker

Blackburn

Pavano

Duensing

Slowey

Liriano/Manship/Swarzak/Perkins

 

They have quite a bit more depth at the back end than we do, although HUDSON at least profiles to eventually be better than all those guys fighting for the fifth/sixth spot for the Twins. On paper, there's certainly no ace, but I would take a lot of those pitchers at the back end over Garcia, too. We'll see what happens with Hudson, if he gets the Brandon McCarthy "managed" treatment or gets thrown into the fire from the beginning of the season.

 

 

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

The controlled temperature is a huge part of the dome, so it is also about the weather.

 

I have no idea how you think the Sox haven't improved their team from last year.

 

The Twins haven't addressed their biggest weakness which is the starting pitching, and their defense may be weaker. The offense is improved, but that was a strength already.

 

Why are so many people ignoring their starting pitching? It was one of the worst staffs in the AL, and has done nothing to improve. They also lose the advantage over visiting hitters in the dome, and have question marks with their defense.

 

If the Sox had their rotatation I would be very pessimistic about their chances.

Once again, the Sox had one of the better rotations in baseball last year, we still finished in third place. The problem was our offense. Of which, Jim Thome was our best player, and Dye was likely in the top 5 even despite a miserable second half. We have replaced players like Thome and Dye with Juan Pierre an OBP-challenged lead-off man who will maintain a better defensive advanatage then Pods, but struggle to get on-base. Next we will be counting on Alexis Rios to bounce back, Beckham not to have a a sophmore slump, Teahen to turn into the guy Billy Beane projected him to be, Konerko to fight off decline for another year, Kotsay to repeat a three week hot streak from last year, Jones to become the player he was 4 years ago, and Ramirez to stop being a space cadet and shape up for the first month of the season. If all these work out, we might have a better team. Right now, I'm smelling a whole lot of if coming off this plan.

[shakes]

Unfortunately, I can also argue against this, although this will be why they play the games. There are a number of issues one can bring up that are decent arguments for why the Twins rotation this year will be better than last year.

 

1. Injury. They lost Slowey after 90 innings last year. He's expected to be ready for ST.

 

2. Duensing, who was their best pitcher overall in the innings he pitched, was a mid-season callup last year and will be there for a full season this year. He put up their best ERA in their rotation, 3.64, but only got 84 innings.

 

3. Pavano will be there for a full year, if he stays healthy. This isn't like adding a Cy Young winner, but if he simply repeats his last season, that adds depth to their rotation that it didn't have to start last year.

 

4. The dome actually didn't help the Twins last year. Most teams put up better ERA's at home than on the road. The Twins had virtually the same ERA on the road and at home. The Twins starting rotation had one of the best ERA's in the league on the road and one of the worst ERA's in in the league at home. It's entirely possible that moving out of the dome could therefore bring benefits to the Twins rotation rather than harm.

 

These points may all be proven wrong easily by another injury or a struggling pitcher and I'm not 100% convinced by any of them. But just as there are reasons to think the Sox offense underperformed last year, one can argue that the Twins starters underperformed last year.

 

1. Slowey needs to prove he's healthy and even what he was for 150 innings in 2008. He was pretty hittable last year even in the time he was healthy.

 

2. Duensing has a lot left to improve. His peripherals were nothing special, and nothing about his last couple of years in the minors tell me anything different. I'm not all that impressed with him.

 

3. I expect very little out of Pavano. Overall, he was a below average pitcher last year, at best. I'm not confident he can repeat what he even did last year.

 

4. Is Liriano healthy, or is he just showing some flashes in winter ball? He needs to prove he can hold up for even a half season.

 

 

Every one of their starters has question marks attached to them. I think they have the worst starting rotation amongst all the contenders in baseball. They have no stoppers in that rotation for times when the bats are cold.

 

I think they would be the clear favorite, because the offense is down right scary, but I can't have any faith in a team with that pitching staff.

 

[shakes]

Once again, the Sox had one of the better rotations in baseball last year, we still finished in third place. The problem was our offense. Of which, Jim Thome was our best player, and Dye was likely in the top 5 even despite a miserable second half. We have replaced players like Thome and Dye with Juan Pierre an OBP-challenged lead-off man who will maintain a better defensive advanatage then Pods, but struggle to get on-base. Next we will be counting on Alexis Rios to bounce back, Beckham not to have a a sophmore slump, Teahen to turn into the guy Billy Beane projected him to be, Konerko to fight off decline for another year, Kotsay to repeat a three week hot streak from last year, Jones to become the player he was 4 years ago, and Ramirez to stop being a space cadet and shape up for the first month of the season. If all these work out, we might have a better team. Right now, I'm smelling a whole lot of if coming off this plan.

 

 

I'm not even arguing they don't have a lot of questions in their offense. They do. But from the opening day roster of last year, the Sox have significantly improved the pitching staff, the defense, and possibly the bullpen.

 

It just seems crazy to me that Minnesota has as many questions with their starting staff, as we do our offense, but people are already conceding the division.

 

I could take the same pessimistic view about their starters 1-5, as you just did with our lineup.

Edited February 9, 2010 by shakes

[macsandz]

Once again, the Sox had one of the better rotations in baseball last year, we still finished in third place. The problem was our offense. Of which, Jim Thome was our best player, and Dye was likely in the top 5 even despite a miserable second half. We have replaced players like Thome and Dye with Juan Pierre an OBP-challenged lead-off man who will maintain a better defensive advanatage then Pods, but struggle to get on-base. Next we will be counting on Alexis Rios to bounce back, Beckham not to have a a sophmore slump, Teahen to turn into the guy Billy Beane projected him to be, Konerko to fight off decline for another year, Kotsay to repeat a three week hot streak from last year, Jones to become the player he was 4 years ago, and Ramirez to stop being a space cadet and shape up for the first month of the season. If all these work out, we might have a better team. Right now, I'm smelling a whole lot of if coming off this plan.

 

The biggest problem for the 2009 White Sox was terrible DEFENSE.

[Balta1701]

The biggest problem for the 2009 White Sox was terrible DEFENSE.

You're asking us to pick which was the worst problem, the defense with the 2nd most errors in the AL or the offense with the 3rd fewest runs scored in the AL.

 

The only realistic choice there is death.

[macsandz]

Once again, the Sox had one of the better rotations in baseball last year, we still finished in third place. The problem was our offense. Of which, Jim Thome was our best player, and Dye was likely in the top 5 even despite a miserable second half. We have replaced players like Thome and Dye with Juan Pierre an OBP-challenged lead-off man who will maintain a better defensive advanatage then Pods, but struggle to get on-base. Next we will be counting on Alexis Rios to bounce back, Beckham not to have a a sophmore slump, Teahen to turn into the guy Billy Beane projected him to be, Konerko to fight off decline for another year, Kotsay to repeat a three week hot streak from last year, Jones to become the player he was 4 years ago, and Ramirez to stop being a space cadet and shape up for the first month of the season. If all these work out, we might have a better team. Right now, I'm smelling a whole lot of if coming off this plan.

 

 

Please tell us how a .365 OBP is OBP-challenged and a .308 AVG is struggling to get on base.