Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[WCSox]

Am I an expert because I once hung up on The Coach, Tom Landry, lol?

 

???

 

[iamshack]

Yeah, I think asking them would be akward. Now if they volunteered.............................................

I can agree with that.

 

The entire reason I brought up the concept is because Peavy said in the press that he wanted Damon on his team, because he is a winner.

 

I think if Jake is going to start proclaiming through the press who he wants on his team, than maybe he should be willing to not take up 15-20% of the payroll himself.

[wsgdf_2]

I think if Jake is going to start proclaiming through the press who he wants on his team, than maybe he should be willing to not take up 15-20% of the payroll himself.

 

 

I'd love it if my company hired a kick ass new programmer to help me get my work done better and faster... but I ain't paying for him.

 

You really want to ask that of the newest guy on the team... the huge acquisition who agreed to waive a no trade clause to come here... the guy who's actually worth his contract to overpay for another guy?

 

No.

 

 

[caulfield12]

???

 

 

I used to run an NFL football player's non-profit foundation in 1995 and 1996.

 

We put on a charity basketball game, golf tournament and dinner, so, as the Program Director, I was lucky enough to deal with Coach Landry, Ditka, Schottenheimer, Dan Reeves, Hootie and the Blowfish, Garrison Heart, Rodney Hampton, Robert Porcher, Shannon Sharpe, etc.

 

Well, Deion Sanders was a pain (we had to get first class tickets for his wife, Deion Jr and Deiondra, from Ft. Myers to Augusta, limo service, etc.). The basketball game was the NFL All-Stars against the Dallas Cowboys. And this was Michael Irvin's first public appearance after his drug problems, the event was early 1996, can't remember the exact date. But there must have been 50+ media requests.

 

The one individual I left that experience having a great amount of respect for was Herschel Walker. He volunteered his own time to be the keynote speaker and didn't even accept a free hotel room, if I remember correctly. I think he was still getting paid by the New Jersey Generals at the time, one of the best contracts ever for a professional athlete.

 

But Coach Landry, he had that sort of "gravelly" voice, like Vincent Price from the Thriller video, you just knew instantly who it was as soon as you picked up the phone.

 

The other interesting celebrity I met was almost a baby, lol. She would later go on to win American Idol, Jordan Sparks. I rode to a game in the Meadowlands with Jordan, her mom (Philippi Sparks, the former CB for the Giants, is her father) and my boss' wife.

Edited February 23, 2010 by caulfield12

[iamshack]

I'd love it if my company hired a kick ass new programmer to help me get my work done better and faster... but I ain't paying for him.

 

You really want to ask that of the newest guy on the team... the huge acquisition who agreed to waive a no trade clause to come here... the guy who's actually worth his contract to overpay for another guy?

 

No.

The difference is you don't go to the press and make your bosses look bad for not hiring the programmer, do you?

 

And yes, I would say "hey Jake, if you really want to win this badly, well, here is where and why we came up short. Now I'm doing the best I can here, but I have some financial constraints I have to adhere to and we couldn't match up because Boras and Damon won't take deferred money."

 

Maybe then he'll respond in a more suitable fashion in the press, or put his money where his mouth is.

[Ranger]

That is all very relevant and great, Mr. Rongey.

 

But guess what? Posters here don't have to work for the Score or be at the ballpark to hear and know things either. And yet you treat many of their opinions as irrelevant or inaccurate because they don't hold some publicly-known position.

 

How do you know what I know? How do you know who I know? I know current players and ex-players, and I know people who know other celebrities and entertainers, and I happen to know that it is quite simple to get in touch with many of them simply by calling their cellphone. Especially when the call is coming from one of their bosses or someone who completely and utterly controls the fate of their current employment situation.

 

No, I don't treat their opinions that way because they don't have a well-known position, shack, but I know when to defer to somebody that does know whether or not something is true because of their job or connections. I would never questiona an attorney on the process of law, nor would I question a doctor on procedure? I may have an opinion of the way I think something runs, but I don't know that. And if I think something is done one way when it's actually done a completely different way, who am I to be stubborn in my opinion? Especially if my opinion is wrong?

 

Some things are not debatable. Some things are either true or they're not. And just because a lot of people may think one thing is true, does not make it fact. Like I said, if I am guessing, I will tell you that I'm guessing. If I know something to be true, I will tell you that as well. What I presented to you here is fact, and it is not debatable. It is fact that players are often times hard to reach (cell phones or not) It is fact that it is nearly logistically impossible to decide on a player to ask to renegotiate, get ahold of that player, work out the renegotiation with the agent, and then come to terms with the other player you're trying to sign, all within a matter of days. Not only is it almost impossible because of time contraints, but it's also almost impossible because of the awkward nature of approaching that player to ask him to do that. These are humansa and it is a business This is not opinion, it's fact. There is no other way to present it.

 

Debating a player's talent is one thing, but there is not a debate when it comes to whether or not something can actually be proven to be true. It is not opinion that, often times, players are tough for the GM to get a hold of. It is an absolute fact. Players do not operate the way regular people do, and they often operate on their own time. While the GM is technically their boss, they don't fear their boss like the average person fears his/hers because they know they're getting paid regardless.

 

 

I can agree with that.

 

The entire reason I brought up the concept is because Peavy said in the press that he wanted Damon on his team, because he is a winner.

 

I think if Jake is going to start proclaiming through the press who he wants on his team, than maybe he should be willing to not take up 15-20% of the payroll himself.

 

Good Lord. Isn't this what I've been saying? The only way it works is if a player volunteers. The GM is not going to go around asking his players which one wants to volunteer.

 

[caulfield12]

And the players that the owners/GM have the most power over...the first/second/third year players, most of those guys are just starting out in the game and aren't in the type of financial position to commit to something like that. Not to mention the players' union would have a field day if it came out that owners were trying to do something like that with their pre-arb players.

 

Maybe only Viciedo or Gordon Beckham would have the ability to help out the team in that way. I wouldn't be shocked if Beckham did offer to help if there was some type of "handshake" agreement to give him an extension after this year (into his first year of FA), with some of the money deferred to create more "present" dollars to sign players in 2011 or 2012.

 

Can you imagine KW asking Orlando Cabrera or Swisher in 2008 to do this? I'd love to hear THAT conversation, frankly.

[iamshack]

Well, I did graduate from law school, and yet you feel perfectly knowledgeable enough to decide that adding an addendum to a player's contract would take too much time to make this realistically possible, even though I can tell you from experience that it could be drafted in 30 minutes or less.

 

I can also tell you that we all heard and read how quickly the acquisition of Jake Peavy occurred right before the deadline, so apparently things can be done in a prompt fashion when the parties are interested.

 

I can also tell you that most of our American-based players seem to respond to phone calls from their agents and/or GMs when such calls are made (at least this is what I read in the press). It seems to be when a player is home in South America or the Caribbean, where cell service might be substandard or non-existent that these issues of "losing" a player seem to occur most (again, from what I read in the press). Obviously, if you are privy to knowledge that our American-based players do not seem to want to answer their phones, then I cannot challenge you on that. However, I have never heard/read of this being the case before, and in fact, have heard/read of the opposite being the case.

 

 

[wsgdf_2]

The difference is you don't go to the press and make your bosses look bad for not hiring the programmer, do you?

 

And yes, I would say "hey Jake, if you really want to win this badly, well, here is where and why we came up short. Now I'm doing the best I can here, but I have some financial constraints I have to adhere to and we couldn't match up because Boras and Damon won't take deferred money."

 

Maybe then he'll respond in a more suitable fashion in the press, or put his money where his mouth is.

 

 

What's wrong with Peavy saying he wanted him on the team?

 

Hell, AJs been making a public freaking spectacle of wanting him on the team.

 

 

[Ranger]

I used to run an NFL football player's non-profit foundation in 1995 and 1996.

 

We put on a charity basketball game, golf tournament and dinner, so, as the Program Director, I was lucky enough to deal with Coach Landry, Ditka, Schottenheimer, Dan Reeves, Hootie and the Blowfish, Garrison Heart, Rodney Hampton, Robert Porcher, Shannon Sharpe, etc.

 

Well, Deion Sanders was a pain (we had to get first class tickets for his wife, Deion Jr and Deiondra, from Ft. Myers to Augusta, limo service, etc.). The basketball game was the NFL All-Stars against the Dallas Cowboys. And this was Michael Irvin's first public appearance after his drug problems, the event was early 1996, can't remember the exact date. But there must have been 50+ media requests.

 

The one individual I left that experience having a great amount of respect for was Herschel Walker. He volunteered his own time to be the keynote speaker and didn't even accept a free hotel room, if I remember correctly. I think he was still getting paid by the New Jersey Generals at the time, one of the best contracts ever for a professional athlete.

 

But Coach Landry, he had that sort of "gravelly" voice, like Vincent Price from the Thriller video, you just knew instantly who it was as soon as you picked up the phone.

 

Let me give an quick NFL example: I ran a charity event (our agency ran it and it was mostly my event) about 9 years ago for a former Rams and recent Bears lineman (just think pancakes). His charity was one of the two that received the proceeds. And by his charity, I mean his name was on the foundation. For a solid week-and-a-half leading up to the event, we could not get ahold of him (and, yes, he had a perfectly capable cell phone). The girl who ran his charity could never get ahold of him and he would never call her back. And this was his charity. The thing was, it was nothing in particular that kept him from calling back. He just didn't call back. He wasn't busy, he wasn't out of town. He was just unreachable. He was just operating on his own time, which isn't good because he insisted on having the final say on a few different issues. Now, he was an incredibly nice person, he just had a different watch than the rest of us.

[iamshack]

What's wrong with Peavy saying he wanted him on the team?

 

Hell, AJs been making a public freaking spectacle of wanting him on the team.

No, actually, AJ has been described as not being comfortable with all the talk of him and Damon being friends, and actually stated "I don't know where he'll sign, I just know it isn't going to be here."

 

Those are quite different things.

[knightni]

If the media asked Peavy about his opinion of Damon, he said that he liked him and he was a winner (his history with Boston and NYY). Every MLB player respects guys who have consitantly won. That's why Jeter gets so many "props" from his peers.

 

I think that people are looking into the quote too much.

[Ranger]

Well, I did graduate from law school, and yet you feel perfectly knowledgeable enough to decide that adding an addendum to a player's contract would take too much time to make this realistically possible, even though I can tell you from experience that it could be drafted in 30 minutes or less.

 

I can also tell you that we all heard and read how quickly the acquisition of Jake Peavy occurred right before the deadline, so apparently things can be done in a prompt fashion when the parties are interested.

 

I can also tell you that most of our American-based players seem to respond to phone calls from their agents and/or GMs when such calls are made (at least this is what I read in the press). It seems to be when a player is home in South America or the Caribbean, where cell service might be substandard or non-existent that these issues of "losing" a player seem to occur most (again, from what I read in the press). Obviously, if you are privy to knowledge that our American-based players do not seem to want to answer their phones, then I cannot challenge you on that. However, I have never heard/read of this being the case before, and in fact, have heard/read of the opposite being the case.

 

 

Well, why would you hear about that? What point would it be for the GM to come out during the winter and say, "jsut thought you'd like to know, but I can't get ahold of ________." You have heard maybe a couple of examples of Kenny talking to a player during the offseason and you just assume that it is easy for all of them to be reached. Sure, some guys are easy to get ahold of. Other guys are not. Sometimes the easy guys are even hard to reach. And yes, sometimes deals do get done very quickly, but even you should know that's not normal.

 

While you went to law school and understand the drafting of an addendum can be done quickly, that doesn't mean that getting all parties to agree on an addendum would be as quick. Sure, the actual drafting of it may take little time, but that's once the parties have agreed. That's the part that usually takes a while.

 

On a side note, what's interesting to me is how you fought me on this idea that it wasn't a realistic option to ask a player to renegotiate, yet you've since admitted that it would be nearly impossible to do.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Yeah Ranger, that's how it is.

 

My guy was VERY hands-on, that was part of the problem, because sometimes we were at cross-purposes. However, I'd much prefer working with any ahtlete who is personally invested into something in the charitable realm, rather than a player who just puts their name on something out of obligation or because the team requires community involvement. (This was the case with the KC Chiefs, and one of the really outstanding athletes I had a chance to work with there, just briefly, was named Pellom McDaniels--I see now that he has become as Assistant Professor of History at the University of Missouri at Kansas City, not the most likely post-career for an NFL football player!). Unfortunately, it's the journeymen players (who are most often involved in really worthwhile projects) who hang around the league 3-4-5 years but when their time is up, they're really shut out and it's much harder to accomplish anything on their behalf.

 

When I was working for the Augusta GreenJackets, I tried to put together a celebrity home-run hitting contest. I had Garrison Hearst and Bert Emmanuel (he played some college BB at Rice University, and drafted by the Pirates) very interested, but they had to defer because their agents were worried they might get hurt and their NFL contracts could be voided. I remember Bert even took one of my phone calls when he was in the shower, lol. Many of the players were surprisingly accessible, some were deliberately evasive or would commit to do something and then keep changing their mind on a weekly basis.

 

Some of the best athletes are the ones you would think would be the most difficult. It's just like getting a job in sports...everyone assumes the most competition is for a job with an NFL or MLB team, so they try to get minor league jobs or internships. What ends up happening is that the competition is stiffer at that level than for the minor leaguers.

 

I guess I'll always regret turning down the Red Sox (I hated them, and it was "only" an internship with $200 per month stipend) and taking a minor league job instead. But that's life. One of my dorm-mates at the University of Iowa ended up getting a radio job with the Astros (Brett Dolan) andI was really shocked, because I know how much competition there is...you just have to be in the right place at the right time, cliched as that is.

Edited February 23, 2010 by caulfield12

[wsgdf_2]

No, actually, AJ has been described as not being comfortable with all the talk of him and Damon being friends, and actually stated "I don't know where he'll sign, I just know it isn't going to be here."

 

Those are quite different things.

 

That was after it was known the Sox were out of the running.

 

There was nothing wrong with what Peavy said.

[caulfield12]

Well, why would you hear about that? What point would it be for the GM to come out during the winter and say, "jsut thought you'd like to know, but I can't get ahold of ________." You have heard maybe a couple of examples of Kenny talking to a player during the offseason and you just assume that it is easy for all of them to be reached. Sure, some guys are easy to get ahold of. Other guys are not. Sometimes the easy guys are even hard to reach. And yes, sometimes deals do get done very quickly, but even you should know that's not normal.

 

While you went to law school and understand the drafting of an addendum can be done quickly, that doesn't mean that getting all parties to agree on an addendum would be as quick. Sure, the actual drafting of it may take little time, but that's once the parties have agreed. That's the part that usually takes a while.

 

On a side note, what's interesting to me is how you fought me on this idea that it wasn't a realistic option to ask a player to renegotiate, yet you've since admitted that it would be nearly impossible to do.

 

An example would be how difficult it was getting information about Juan Uribe when he had his incident in the DR a couple of years ago. He was out of touch for quite awhile. A lot of times the agents don't even know where their players are....and inevitably it seems there are visa problems with getting players back to the US for spring training from the Caribbean.

[iamshack]

Well, why would you hear about that? What point would it be for the GM to come out during the winter and say, "jsut thought you'd like to know, but I can't get ahold of ________." You have heard maybe a couple of examples of Kenny talking to a player during the offseason and you just assume that it is easy for all of them to be reached. Sure, some guys are easy to get ahold of. Other guys are not. Sometimes the easy guys are even hard to reach. And yes, sometimes deals do get done very quickly, but even you should know that's not normal.

 

While you went to law school and understand the drafting of an addendum can be done quickly, that doesn't mean that getting all parties to agree on an addendum would be as quick. Sure, the actual drafting of it may take little time, but that's once the parties have agreed. That's the part that usually takes a while.

 

On a side note, what's interesting to me is how you fought me on this idea that it wasn't a realistic option to ask a player to renegotiate, yet you've since admitted that it would be nearly impossible to do.

Well, I often hear about GMs not being able to find Latin American players in the offseason. Why do I hear that but not the same about American players? I swear, sometimes you think I get all my information from Entourage or something.

 

Believe it or not, Mr. Rongey, I also took Negotiations as well as Mediations. I also worked for the Mayor's Office as well as a very successful law firm, where I did take part in negotiations and mediations. I am very well aware that sometimes it is difficult to get parties to come to agreements. And if that would have been the case, then perhaps you are correct in saying that it would have been unrealistic. I tend to think that for a guy who already has made millions, has a guaranteed contract for another $75 million or so, that he would probably not have a huge problem with deferring $2-3 million over the course of a few years. But hey, that is just my opinion.

 

As for your side note, I don't really see where I have admitted that it would have been nearly impossible to do. And if you go back and read the original post I made, you'll see I didn't come out and say "LET'S GET ONE OF OUR VETERANS TO RENEGOTIATE!"

I said

If it was really about $2 million we needed to defer somehow, I would have hoped that one of our veterans would have been willing to restructure for the sake of winning.

 

I never said it was a simple process. I never said it was something that Kenny should pressured someone to do. I never said it was commonplace.

 

My implication was that if it really was about the availability of the money, and I truly don't believe it was, then I would hope we would get creative enough to make it happen.

 

What do you guys care more about, winning? Or doing something "awkward"? What do you think Kenny cares more about?

Edited February 23, 2010 by iamshack

[caulfield12]

Is James Cameron a White Sox fan, lol?

 

Maybe he would be willing to give Johnny Damon an extra $1-2 million.

[ThunderBolt]

Can we kill this thread already? We're going nowehere, and Damon's not on the Sox.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Is James Cameron a White Sox fan, lol?

 

Maybe he would be willing to give Johnny Damon an extra $1-2 million.

 

I always thought about that. Like if I was Bill Gates, and was a big sports fan. I would be like "Here ya go, take this $2M and get this guy". I mean, Gates makes millions of dollars a week. I wonder if there are any rules against this.

[Ranger]

Yeah Ranger, that's how it is.

 

My guy was VERY hands-on, that was part of the problem, because sometimes we were at cross-purposes. However, I'd much prefer working with any ahtlete who is personally invested into something in the charitable realm, rather than a player who just puts their name on something out of obligation or because the team requires community involvement. (This was the case with the KC Chiefs, and one of the really outstanding athletes I had a chance to work with there, just briefly, was named Pellom McDaniels--I see now that he has become as Assistant Professor of History at the University of Missouri at Kansas City, not the most likely post-career for an NFL football player!). Unfortunately, it's the journeymen players (who are most often involved in really worthwhile projects) who hang around the league 3-4-5 years but when their time is up, they're really shut out and it's much harder to accomplish anything on their behalf.

 

When I was working for the Augusta GreenJackets, I tried to put together a celebrity home-run hitting contest. I had Garrison Hearst and Bert Emmanuel (he played some college BB at Rice University, and drafted by the Pirates) very interested, but they had to defer because their agents were worried they might get hurt and their NFL contracts could be voided. I remember Bert even took one of my phone calls when he was in the shower, lol. Many of the players were surprisingly accessible, some were deliberately evasive or would commit to do something and then keep changing their mind on a weekly basis.

 

Some of the best athletes are the ones you would think would be the most difficult. It's just like getting a job in sports...everyone assumes the most competition is for a job with an NFL or MLB team, so they try to get minor league jobs or internships. What ends up happening is that the competition is stiffer at that level than for the minor leaguers.

 

I guess I'll always regret turning down the Red Sox (I hated them, and it was "only" an internship with $200 per month stipend) and taking a minor league job instead. But that's life. One of my dorm-mates at the University of Iowa ended up getting a radio job with the Astros (Brett Dolan) andI was really shocked, because I know how much competition there is...you just have to be in the right place at the right time, cliched as that is.

 

This was the strange problem with our guy who wanted to be in on the decisions but didn't feel like getting back to anyone in a timely matter.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

I always thought about that. Like if I was Bill Gates, and was a big sports fan. I would be like "Here ya go, take this $2M and get this guy". I mean, Gates makes millions of dollars a week. I wonder if there are any rules against this.

 

I imagine you have to be a significant shareholder to do something like that.

[greg775]

My problem is your neverending pessimism regarding anything that has to do with the Sox players, and conversely your optimism about players walking out the door. My problem is that Rios had a bad year last year, admittedly from Rios and everyone within the White Sox and Blue Jays organizations, yet he isnt allowed to have a bad year because.....well just because. Rios is young, he has been an all star already, his defense is superior to everyone on the team, and he get a fresh start.

 

You ask me what my problem is, after you just buried Rios just like you have buried so many players? What is your problem? I am not allowed to inject a little sarcasm? Why do I have to listen to you wax poetic about how Thome will kill us, and Dye will hit us hard, and oh-my-god this(pick one) ex white sox player is on the Royals so he is going to want to kill us everytime he plays us, dear lord the season is over.

 

I really don't know too much what you are talking about.

You mention my pessimism and burying our players.

When I think of these guys I have positive thoughts. Do you want me to praise them on here? I will:

I have positive thoughts of Lexi, Beckham, Paulie in the infield (I have negative thoughts about Teahen; I am neutral about Nix and Kotsay, leaning toward being negative toward Omar).

I have positive feelings about CQ in the outfield, negative thoughts about Rios and Pierre. I'm willing to wait and see on Rios and Pierre this season. It's not like I want them to suck.

I have positive feelings about AJP; negative about Castro.

I have positive feeligs toward Mark, Peavy, Danks Floyd and Freddy; positive feelings toward Bobby and Thornton and Hudson; negative toward Linebrink, Randy Williams and any ex Royals relievers still on the roster.

I like Oz and KW.

 

Yes, I love the guys who departed: Dye, Crede, Thome, Pods. I am not a big fan of Getz, Fields or Brian Anderson.

I like most of our players and am rooting for them all out of the gates this season.

I didn't read your sarcasm, sorry about that.

[chetkincaid]

I can feel the positivity in this thread...

[caulfield12]

I am positive about Greg's renewed positivism...