knightni Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 A lot of Hip-hop artists are morally ambiguous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 William Munny... Client Eastwood's character in Unforgiven. In fact, you could probably make a case for most of the characters Clint Eastwood has played in movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Wolverine, Venom (comics version), Jean Grey/Phoenix, Hulk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Jay Leno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Humphrey Bogart's character in Casablanca. Robert Downey Jr.'s character in Iron Man. Matt Damon as Jason Bourne... real nice guy... wants to stop killing people... seriously... but 'they' won't let him dammit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Batman - he's not gun violent but he struggles with "the line." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Oh man! I do not have the balls to make a bunch of 18 year olds read Ayn Rand! I think there would be mutiny! Thank you all for your suggestions--and please keep them coming. Throughout the latter 2/3 of the semester we'll be reading and watching stuff to discuss what makes a monster, what can redeem a monster. So, we're going to be doing lots of critical thinking and playing devil's advocate. The final (class) project will to put a "monster" on trial and have a little mock trial. The Fountainhead is so much better than Atlas Shrugged though. Besides, I hear a lot of senior HS english classes have it in the curriculum (mine didn't). Roark's a pretty likable guy unlike Dagny Taggart or Hank Rearden, I think it'd be a fun exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 George W Bush Bill Clinton Ronald Reagan Richard Nixon Harry S Truman ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 QUOTE (scenario @ Feb 8, 2010 -> 06:37 PM) Humphrey Bogart's character in Casablanca. Robert Downey Jr.'s character in Iron Man. Matt Damon as Jason Bourne... real nice guy... wants to stop killing people... seriously... but 'they' won't let him dammit. I'd say no to Bogart as Rick in Casablanca. I think it was always made clear that he fought the good fight both in his earlier life and also later as the proprietor of the Cafe. He worked hard to convey the image of a tough and morally ambiguous person (ostensibly to never be hurt in love again), but his kindness to the random Bulgarian couple attempting to flee to freedom, his willingness to aid Victor Laszlo at the expense of his own happiness. etc., puts him firmly on the side of the Good Guys. Claude Rain's Captain Renault said it best: “As I suspected. . . you're a rank sentimentalist.” As an aside, I continue to rank Casablanca amog the top five American films ever made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Feb 9, 2010 -> 12:48 AM) The Fountainhead is so much better than Atlas Shrugged though. Besides, I hear a lot of senior HS english classes have it in the curriculum (mine didn't). Roark's a pretty likable guy unlike Dagny Taggart or Hank Rearden, I think it'd be a fun exercise. But you have to read all her stupid bulls*** about architecture which comes across as retarded also the sex scenes. Meursault from The Stranger. i don't even know what my argument would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 8, 2010 -> 07:51 PM) But you have to read all her stupid bulls*** about architecture which comes across as retarded also the sex scenes. Meursault from The Stranger. i don't even know what my argument would be. Your argument would be: "I read Camus. look at my Large Brain! Wanna have sex with me?" Or maybe that's my argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Ummm...i decline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Yeah. . . I wasn't really talking to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattZakrowski Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Edward Norton's character in Fight Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Patrick Bateman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Feb 8, 2010 -> 03:23 PM) Daniel Plainview. I think that character was overtly evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ Feb 8, 2010 -> 04:49 PM) Frank Castle/Punisher I think he's the definition of moral ambiguity in pop culture. Ooh, that's a very good one. I was going to say Tony Soprano or Dexter Morgan, but both have been added already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 How about reading or watching Watchmen? There are at least three characters that would make for good conversation (Ozymandias, Comedian, and Rorschach). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 9, 2010 -> 02:12 AM) Ooh, that's a very good one. I was going to say Tony Soprano or Dexter Morgan, but both have been added already. Are Dexters morals really ambiguous though? He has a code that he describes in detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Richie Roberts (Russell Crowe's character from American Gangster) Donnie Brasco/Joe Pistone Trent (Vince Vaughn in Swingers) Former governor George Ryan Captain Benjamin Willard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 8, 2010 -> 08:21 PM) Are Dexters morals really ambiguous though? He has a code that he describes in detail. He gets rid of bad people, which is a good thing. But, he does so by killing them. That can make for good discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 8, 2010 -> 08:17 PM) How about reading or watching Watchmen? There are at least three characters that would make for good conversation (Ozymandias, Comedian, and Rorschach). I like that a lot. Ozymandias would make a hell of a case study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Feb 8, 2010 -> 08:23 PM) I like that a lot. Ozymandias would make a hell of a case study. And so would Comedian (and Rorschach to a lesser extent, IMO). That book/movie would be a great topic for discussion on moral ambiguity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 8, 2010 -> 08:21 PM) Are Dexters morals really ambiguous though? He has a code that he describes in detail. The same argument could be made for several of the above, basically all of the archetypal vigilantes. But the ability to rationalize away moral dilemmas to your own satisfaction doesn't mean the rationale carries weight with society at large. The hallmark of these characters as sociopaths is going to be the personal moral relativism that allows them to behave the way they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I thought about Watchmen characters, but I thought that not many people would get the reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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