Official 2010-11 NFL Thread

[Harry Chappas]

Is there really a correct answer with those group of guys? Just stick Olin in the middle and flip a coin for the other spots

 

With an O-Line though you need to stick with something and hope it gells. At some point the evaluation process needs to end.

[Balta1701]

With an O-Line though you need to stick with something and hope it gells. At some point the evaluation process needs to end.

Turns out Garza isn't getting "benched", this is an injury-move.

Bears coach Lovie Smith said guard Roberto Garza will undergo arthroscopic knee surgery and miss Sunday's game against Seattle.

 

It is unclear how long Garza will be sidelined, but he battled through knee pains the last few weeks.

 

With Garza out, Chris Williams is expected to take over as the starting left guard. Williams, who started the season at left tackle, returned to practice Wednesday off a hamstring strain.

 

Smith also said Charles Tillman has a calf injury. The veteran cornerback sat out Wednesday's practice.

[lostfan]

My first reaction to Williams at LG was WTF. Omiyale has been better at LT than he was at LG but that's virtually saying nothing, but of the two, you pick Omiyale to play LT because he was so unbelievably bad when he was tried at that position you don't even consider the thought. It might actually be a pretty good thing with Williams on the inside because he is big, and his athleticism comes in handy when pulling and things like that. Plus he played some guard at Vanderbilt.

 

Still, when you spend the 14th pick on a lineman you pretty much expect him to be your franchise LT, you don't pick guards that early, so hopefully he is only playing out of necessity and not because the coaches have concluded he can't play LT.

[Soxbadger]

Still, when you spend the 14th pick on a lineman you pretty much expect him to be your franchise LT,

 

 

If you pick a LT in the top 1 or 2 you expect them to be a franchise player.

 

If you pick a LT at 14 and they are the 3rd lineman taken in the draft, you are just hoping for a guy who is solid. Unfortunately Clady and Long went before Williams, but I never was a big Williams fan. Thought he could potentially be solid but never expected him to be a franchise LT.

[lostfan]

If you pick a LT in the top 1 or 2 you expect them to be a franchise player.

 

If you pick a LT at 14 and they are the 3rd lineman taken in the draft, you are just hoping for a guy who is solid. Unfortunately Clady and Long went before Williams, but I never was a big Williams fan. Thought he could potentially be solid but never expected him to be a franchise LT.

If you use a first rounder in the top half on anybody, ever, you expect them at a minimum to be a starter for the next 5-10 years and possibly a Pro Bowler. Less than that is a bust.

 

That particular draft was loaded with OL, relative to other drafts.

Edited October 14, 2010 by lostfan

[Soxbadger]

I guess when I hear "franchise player" I consider it to mean one of the best players on the team. I think guys like Ogden and Pace. I would consider a guy "solid" if he started for 5 years.

 

Might just be difference on how we are using the words.

[knightni]

Bust = Raiders making Gallery a Guard.

[T R U]

Bust = Raiders making Gallery a Guard.

 

meh, its hard to call a pretty good player a bust.. at least he has contributed to their team unlike Jamarcus Russell.. now THAT was a bust..

[T R U]

I guess when I hear "franchise player" I consider it to mean one of the best players on the team. I think guys like Ogden and Pace. I would consider a guy "solid" if he started for 5 years.

 

Might just be difference on how we are using the words.

 

Well Left Tackle, Quarterback, and Cornerback are really the only "franchise player" positions in terms of where you need a cornerstone guy.. however, ide say that anyone taken in round 1 needs to at bare minimum be a solid contributor to your team for the length of his contract..

 

Anything less, and its a bust

[Soxbadger]

Id agree that if they arent solid, they are a bust.

 

I just am saying that if you are taken 14th overall, and not even the top player at your position, your no guarantee as a franchise player. And I think you can have a franchise player at LB etc, just depends on the team and the scheme.

[T R U]

Id agree that if they arent solid, they are a bust.

 

I just am saying that if you are taken 14th overall, and not even the top player at your position, your no guarantee as a franchise player. And I think you can have a franchise player at LB etc, just depends on the team and the scheme.

 

You can have a franchise player anywhere, I was just saying that the main ones that a team is trying to get are those three positions.. like Adrian Peterson is a franchise RB, but teams aren't dying for RBs like they are the QB, LT, and CB positions..

 

And yes, you are right.. if you are taken 14th overall and not the best player at your position on your team you are not a franchise player..

 

[Balta1701]

Here's the problem with labeling a guy as a bust because he's not a dominant player out of the 14th slot in the draft. Even the top 10 picks have a legitimate "out of football within 5 years" bust rate of above 30%. Pick a draft from a few years ago, go back, and see the kind of guys there.

 

Yes, in every draft you'll find an Adrian Peterson and a Jake Long in the top 10, that's why those picks are highly valued, but you can't ignore the fact that even if you wind up with the #1 pick, there's a pretty darn good shot that you'll be overpaying a guy who won't be your best player at that position in 3 years.

 

So you want to land a star when you draft at #14. You're correct in hoping so. But any team that wins on every pick in their first round for 3-4 years in a row is a Super Bowl caliber team.

 

If a guy taken at #14 winds up as a solid starter at some position, I think you count that as a win. The number of legitimate stars taken at #14 in the past decade or so that I saw after looking was 1: Revis by the Jets. I saw a number of good players, like Shockey, Bunkley, Tommie Harris, and some number of failures too: Kenyatta Walker, Michael Haynes. You want to wind up getting the Revis, but drafting at 14, there has been 1 of him in the last decade.

 

BTW, the Bears have drafted at #14 3 times in the past decade. That might bias my sample, and that's really weird.

[Kyyle23]

BTW, the Bears have drafted at #14 3 times in the past decade. That might bias my sample, and that's really weird.

 

You have to keep in mind the Haynes pick was a trade down to the Jets, so it isnt like they earned the 14 pick that year. they traded the 4th pick(Dwayne Robertson to the Jets) for it and 22nd pick(grossman)

[lostfan]

I guess when I hear "franchise player" I consider it to mean one of the best players on the team. I think guys like Ogden and Pace. I would consider a guy "solid" if he started for 5 years.

 

Might just be difference on how we are using the words.

Yeah probably. When I say "franchise" I mean you are "the guy" at that position and one of the better players at that position in the league, but not necessarily top 5-caliber.

[lostfan]

Here's the problem with labeling a guy as a bust because he's not a dominant player out of the 14th slot in the draft. Even the top 10 picks have a legitimate "out of football within 5 years" bust rate of above 30%. Pick a draft from a few years ago, go back, and see the kind of guys there.

 

Yes, in every draft you'll find an Adrian Peterson and a Jake Long in the top 10, that's why those picks are highly valued, but you can't ignore the fact that even if you wind up with the #1 pick, there's a pretty darn good shot that you'll be overpaying a guy who won't be your best player at that position in 3 years.

 

So you want to land a star when you draft at #14. You're correct in hoping so. But any team that wins on every pick in their first round for 3-4 years in a row is a Super Bowl caliber team.

 

If a guy taken at #14 winds up as a solid starter at some position, I think you count that as a win. The number of legitimate stars taken at #14 in the past decade or so that I saw after looking was 1: Revis by the Jets. I saw a number of good players, like Shockey, Bunkley, Tommie Harris, and some number of failures too: Kenyatta Walker, Michael Haynes. You want to wind up getting the Revis, but drafting at 14, there has been 1 of him in the last decade.

 

BTW, the Bears have drafted at #14 3 times in the past decade. That might bias my sample, and that's really weird.

This is more or less saying the same thing as "the chances of taking a bust are 1 in 3" or "every team occasionally drafts busts in the first round" which is still a true statement, but even if the Colts pick a WR in the first and he never amounts to s*** in the NFL, he's still a bust and the Colts probably want that pick back.

[lostfan]

Cutler is lying when he says this was his first concussion, he's had like 4 of them before. He said something to the effect that he doesn't remember parts of the 2nd quarter of the Giants game.

[T R U]

[knightni]

I think that I'm going to be making a new animated .gif soon...

[Balta1701]

The Ball! His Groin! It works on so many levels!

[knightni]

The Ball! His Groin! It works on so many levels!

That's brilliant. I'm going to combine Hans Moleman's clip with Favre's.

[daa84]

[knightni]

I found it.

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

That is Godly.

[southsider2k5]

True awesomeness. Hopefully it is a part of his Hall of Fame highlights.

[Balta1701]

Barney's movie had heart, but football in the groin had a football in the groin.