Where now?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

No speed? What are you talking about? You might wanna look a little closer.

 

Besides Pierre, who else on our team is a speed threat?

Edited February 21, 2010 by JoeCoolMan24

[caulfield12]

We are faster than last year, but it's not like we are an NL team yet either...like the mid to late 80's Cardinals.

 

Rios will get his steals, and Ramirez hopefully can pick it up in this area, too.

 

We've subtracted the lumbering Dye and Thome...although Thome was a good baserunner, just not fast.

 

Teahen is a good baserunner but not fast, Beckham and Q (healthy) have good/decent speed.

 

It remains to be seen how much A. Jones, Kotsay and Vizquel have, but they're all at least "capable" in that area, along with Nix.

 

Then you have Konerko, who's obviously slow and AJ, who's deceptively good in this area but not fast, either.

Edited February 21, 2010 by caulfield12

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

We are faster than last year, but it's not like we are an NL team yet either...like the mid to late 80's Cardinals.

 

Rios will get his steals, and Ramirez hopefully can pick it up in this area, too.

 

We've subtracted the lumbering Dye and Thome...although Thome was a good baserunner, just not fast.

 

Teahen is a good baserunner but not fast, Beckham and Q (healthy) have good/decent speed.

 

It remains to be seen how much A. Jones, Kotsay and Vizquel have, but they're all at least "capable" in that area, along with Nix.

 

Then you have Konerko, who's obviously slow and AJ, who's deceptively good in this area but not fast, either.

 

I am not denying we are a faster team, but that does not mean we have speed threats. Instead of having lumbering "base cloggers", we have a much higher average speed. However, outside of Pierre, we don't have any guys who are going to late game pinch runners to steal a base, this is why having De Aza might help add his weapon to this team.

[chunk23]

I am not denying we are a faster team, but that does not mean we have speed threats. Instead of having lumbering "base cloggers", we have a much higher average speed. However, outside of Pierre, we don't have any guys who are going to late game pinch runners to steal a base, this is why having De Aza might help add his weapon to this team.

 

 

Speed doesn't matter if you don't get on base. This team is not built to get on base.

[caulfield12]

I am not denying we are a faster team, but that does not mean we have speed threats. Instead of having lumbering "base cloggers", we have a much higher average speed. However, outside of Pierre, we don't have any guys who are going to late game pinch runners to steal a base, this is why having De Aza might help add his weapon to this team.

 

But that 2005 team didn't have more than one primary base-stealing threat in Pods, either.

 

We had players like Iguchi and Willie Harris who were capable of stealing a bag, but that was a clearly slower team than this one.

 

As mentioned, OBP matters more than speed, otherwise you would see Renaldo Nehemiah and 4X100 track team enjoying careers in baseball...in football, speed and athleticism can get you a job, in baseball, not so much (see Jordan, Michael).

 

FWIW, Rios and Pierre are solid base-stealing threats. The jury remains out on Alexei's ability to hone and master the art of basestealing. Willie Harris was very fast, but he never figured out the nuances. In fact, even at his age, I think Vizquel might end up being a better basestealer (on craftiness alone) than Willie Harris.

[greg775]

I just don't think it will happen, although they don't seem nearly as content with the rotating pile of crap at DH as they were a couple of months ago, which is a good sign.

 

The rotating pile of crap line made me laugh. Good stuff.

[SoxAce]

I can't wait to see Beckham turned into captain bunting because Ozzie wants to completely recreate the Marlins 2003 lineup.

 

One of the main reasons I want Beckham lower in the order myself. I don't care if he's 3, 5 or 6 (which Ozzie said he wanted him in the 6 spot anyway) I don't want to see a man with his talent (not to mention before last season, never bunted in his entire life playing baseball) ask to bunt (which Ozzie will do) and pretty much waste an out from a run producer.

[3E8]

Please tell us how this team as a collective is "lacking power".

 

Eight of the nine hitters in the Sox lineup are capable of hitting 15+ HRS.

 

Minnesota can't claim that.

 

Detroit can't claim that.

 

Whenever you're ready...

Number of hitters "capable" of hitting 15+ home runs is not a good way to measure team power. First, "capable" doesn't really provide a sense of likelihood. Several of the players you're including average under or just around the 15 HR mark. A team like the Twins may have a smaller group of guys who have hit 15 HRs at a point in their career, yet that group could still out-HR our larger group. These are also two teams who had below AL average power output last year.

 

And the position traditionally reserved for the team bat with the most power, we have chosen to chalk in an inadequacy platoon. Kotsay is a singles-hitter who as a lefty could get the lion's share of DH ABs at this point. Jones clearly has a powerful bat and was no doubt one of the 8 hitters you're speaking of, but his recent performance doesn't inspire much confidence

Edited February 21, 2010 by 3E8

[SoxAce]

Hmmm...

 

Pierre 40-60 (if he gets his usual 600+ PA, since he is starting again)

Beckham 15-20

Rios 20-30

Alexei 15-20 (he's improved his discipline as well as his stealing ability so I expect that to continue)

Nix 5-15 (depending on playing time)

Teahen 5-10 (though he's capable of 15)

Konerko 0-2 (he's on a 2 year SB streak.. you gotta think he'll swipe at least 1 this year )

Pierzynski 0-1 (he's on a 4 year streak)

Quentin 5-10 (assuming he can stay off the DL, and Ozzie feels comfortable in him running)

Kotsay 0-4 (depending on PT, and is older)

Jones 0-5 (not in his prime anymore, but Jones can still swipe em at will)

Castro 0-0 (he will NEVER steal a bag regardless of PT)

 

Not counting De Aza, Flowers etc.. since who knows what will happen in ST from now (someone beating out someone else for a spot, someone getting released/traded, injuries, etc.. etc...)

 

I don't think stolen bases or "steal threats" will be an issue with this team.

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

Please tell us how this team as a collective is "lacking power".

 

Eight of the nine hitters in the Sox lineup are capable of hitting 15+ HRS.

 

Minnesota can't claim that.

 

Detroit can't claim that.

 

Whenever you're ready...

I was bored so for s***s and giggles I decided to average the Bill James, Marcel and CHONES projections for the 2010 White Sox players and see where the statistical consensus was for us to land in homeruns and runs. The results:

HR’s : 170

Runs: 692

My Conclusion: For those of you were hoping that this organization would be forced to give up the majority of it's prospects come trade deadline, you're about to get your wish!!! Also, if you were wondering about your, "Eight of the nine hitters in the Sox lineup are capable of hitting 15+ HRS". prediction, Bucket-Of-Suck. If we factor in the platoon as one hybrid player (Albeit, an awful one) we get 6 of the 9 starters projected to hit 15+ homers.

The Breakdown:

AJ- HR:13-R:58

Konerko 26-69

Beckham- 17-76

Teahen-14-69

Ramirez-17-70

Q-25-75

Rios-17-77

Pierre-2-59

Kotsay- 5-31

Jones-15-45

Castro-9-22

Nix-10-41

Vizquel-2-28

 

[macsandz]

Number of hitters "capable" of hitting 15+ home runs is not a good way to measure team power. First, "capable" doesn't really provide a sense of likelihood. Several of the players you're including average under or just around the 15 HR mark. A team like the Twins may have a smaller group of guys who have hit 15 HRs at a point in their career, yet that group could still out-HR our larger group. These are also two teams who had below AL average power output last year.

 

And the position traditionally reserved for the team bat with the most power, we have chosen to chalk in an inadequacy platoon. Kotsay is a singles-hitter who as a lefty could get the lion's share of DH ABs at this point. Jones clearly has a powerful bat and was no doubt one of the 8 hitters you're speaking of, but his recent performance doesn't inspire much confidence

 

I'm confused....

You said "Capable doesn't provide a sense of likelihood?" But then went on tho say that several of those players have averaged close to 15HRs. It seems to me that the fact that you pointed out the players average 15 HRS would at the very least indicate a capability to do so...no? (AJ, Teahen, Beckham)

 

The remaning few that don't avg 15hrs in the Sox lineup actually average more for their careers (PK, CQ, Alexei, Rios, Jones)

 

So the fact that Jones hit 17 Hrs in 281 ABs doesn't inspire power confidence? That would be 34 Hrs for 562 at-bats.

Jones hit 8 fewer HRs than Jermaine Dye last season in over 200 fewer ABs.

Edited February 21, 2010 by bucket-of-suck

[3E8]

I'm confused....

You said "Capable doesn't provide a sense of likelihood?" But then went on tho say that several of those players have averaged close to 15HRs. It seems to me that the fact that you pointed out the players average 15 HRS would at the very least indicate a capability to do so...no? (AJ, Teahen, Beckham)

You're missing the point. A player who hit 15 HRs 1 out of 5 seasons could be considered capable to hit 15 HRs, just as a player who hit 15 HRs 5 out of 5 seasons could also be considered capable. But the likelihood of each of them reaching the mark is notably different. I'm pointing out that several of your 8 average just at or below 15 HRs/season, which means capable is better translated to somewhat likely, but nothing to really count on

 

 

So the fact that Jones hit 17 Hrs in 281 ABs doesn't inspire power confidence? That would be 34 Hrs for 562 at-bats.

Jones hit 8 fewer HRs than Jermaine Dye last season in over 200 fewer ABs.

I said Jones clearly has a powerful bat. And it's nice that you just blindly extrapolated his partial season stats from last year, but part of being able to do that means he needs to stay healthy. Which he hasn't been able to do the previous two seasons. His batting average is less than .220 over his last 1000 ABs. These are the red flags which do not inspire confidence, and are part of the reason we were able to sign Jones for basically the league minimum

[simba43]

I'm confused....

You said "Capable doesn't provide a sense of likelihood?" But then went on tho say that several of those players have averaged close to 15HRs. It seems to me that the fact that you pointed out the players average 15 HRS would at the very least indicate a capability to do so...no? (AJ, Teahen, Beckham)

 

The remaning few that don't avg 15hrs in the Sox lineup actually average more for their careers (PK, CQ, Alexei, Rios, Jones)

 

So the fact that Jones hit 17 Hrs in 281 ABs doesn't inspire power confidence? That would be 34 Hrs for 562 at-bats.

Jones hit 8 fewer HRs than Jermaine Dye last season in over 200 fewer ABs.

twins lineup but not there batting order

span 8 to 12 hrs cf

hudson 12 to 15 2nd

mauer 20 to 25 c

morneiu 30 to 35 1st

cuddeyer 25 to 30 rf

kubel 25 to 30 lf dh ?

hardy 15 to 20 ss

young 12 to 15 lf dh ?

thome 12 to 20 dh depending on abs

tolbert 12 to 15 3rd ? i think he is playing 3rd

 

 

well you may be right that they don't have 8 guys who will hit 15 hrs but possibly 10? but i dought that . but they do have 5 guys im sure will hit 20 to 30 and that the sox don't have. the twins im sure will hit 30 to 35 more hrs then the sox depending on injuries and how there new stadium plays . but for me i rather have there lineup over ours anyday and twice on sunday .

[Lillian]

Number of hitters "capable" of hitting 15+ home runs is not a good way to measure team power. First, "capable" doesn't really provide a sense of likelihood. Several of the players you're including average under or just around the 15 HR mark. A team like the Twins may have a smaller group of guys who have hit 15 HRs at a point in their career, yet that group could still out-HR our larger group. These are also two teams who had below AL average power output last year.

 

And the position traditionally reserved for the team bat with the most power, we have chosen to chalk in an inadequacy platoon. Kotsay is a singles-hitter who as a lefty could get the lion's share of DH ABs at this point. Jones clearly has a powerful bat and was no doubt one of the 8 hitters you're speaking of, but his recent performance doesn't inspire much confidence

 

If Jones is performing up to management's expectations, there would be no reason to platoon him. His career stats indicate that he has always been able to hit righties about as well as lefties. His power presence would favor him over Kotsay, even vs righties. Kotsay is better served as a bench player. Now if Jones is not performing then we really have a problem.

[caulfield12]

twins lineup but not there batting order

span 8 to 12 hrs cf

hudson 12 to 15 2nd

mauer 20 to 25 c

morneiu 30 to 35 1st

cuddeyer 25 to 30 rf

kubel 25 to 30 lf dh ?

hardy 15 to 20 ss

young 12 to 15 lf dh ?

thome 12 to 20 dh depending on abs

tolbert 12 to 15 3rd ? i think he is playing 3rd

 

 

well you may be right that they don't have 8 guys who will hit 15 hrs but possibly 10? but i dought that . but they do have 5 guys im sure will hit 20 to 30 and that the sox don't have. the twins im sure will hit 30 to 35 more hrs then the sox depending on injuries and how there new stadium plays . but for me i rather have there lineup over ours anyday and twice on sunday .

 

 

There's no way Tolbert will get that many homers.

 

You should run Punto or Brendan Harris for 3B, they are the most likely....probably Harris, he has more experience at third, Punto at SS and 2B.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Here's something interesting from the Tribune:

 

Extra innings: The Sox reported their highest advanced ticket sales since 2006 -- the season after their World Series title

[southsider2k5]

Sign Leslie Anderson and hope he's the 2010 version of Tadahito Iguchi?

 

I don't think Anderson is going to be able to be signed for this season. Getting the citizenship stuff straight takes a while.

[SkokieSox]

Im with you there, i want someone for the 2 hole so we can move Beckham to the 3 spot.

 

I wouldn't move Quentin out of the three hole

[knightni]

If he's healthy, Felipe Lopez might be a great option.

 

He has played every position, has decent speed, and can hit for average.

[southsider2k5]

If he's healthy, Felipe Lopez might be a great option.

 

He has played every position, has decent speed, and can hit for average.

 

I'd rather have him than Blalock. He is a better fit for the team philosophy.

[macsandz]

twins lineup but not there batting order

span 8 to 12 hrs cf

hudson 12 to 15 2nd

mauer 20 to 25 c

morneiu 30 to 35 1st

cuddeyer 25 to 30 rf

kubel 25 to 30 lf dh ?

hardy 15 to 20 ss

young 12 to 15 lf dh ?

thome 12 to 20 dh depending on abs

tolbert 12 to 15 3rd ? i think he is playing 3rd

 

 

well you may be right that they don't have 8 guys who will hit 15 hrs but possibly 10? but i dought that . but they do have 5 guys im sure will hit 20 to 30 and that the sox don't have. the twins im sure will hit 30 to 35 more hrs then the sox depending on injuries and how there new stadium plays . but for me i rather have there lineup over ours anyday and twice on sunday .

 

 

A rotation of Punto/Harris is the 3B and they are NOT gonna hit 15Hrs together.

Span has never hit more then 8 HRs in a full season.

 

The Twins have more power potential in fewer guys, which means if one of those sluggers like Morneau gets injured (again) their power really falls off.

 

[macsandz]

You're missing the point. A player who hit 15 HRs 1 out of 5 seasons could be considered capable to hit 15 HRs, just as a player who hit 15 HRs 5 out of 5 seasons could also be considered capable. But the likelihood of each of them reaching the mark is notably different. I'm pointing out that several of your 8 average just at or below 15 HRs/season, which means capable is better translated to somewhat likely, but nothing to really count on

 

 

 

I said Jones clearly has a powerful bat. And it's nice that you just blindly extrapolated his partial season stats from last year, but part of being able to do that means he needs to stay healthy. Which he hasn't been able to do the previous two seasons. His batting average is less than .220 over his last 1000 ABs. These are the red flags which do not inspire confidence, and are part of the reason we were able to sign Jones for basically the league minimum

 

How did I "blindly extrapolate partial season stats"? The numbers I listed were full season production as it included every at-bat.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If Kotsay and Jones really suck hard early on, and if we can't make a deal, I'd rather just move Quentin to DH to rest him and call up D2 so we can go with defense while working on acquiring a DH (or another position player who would push someone else to DH). Realistically I can see Jones/Kotsay producing something like a .255/.325/.410/.735 line combined, but not a whole lot better than that. Hopefully Jones shocks the world and stops sucking.

[whitesoxfan101]

Here's something interesting from the Tribune:

 

Extra innings: The Sox reported their highest advanced ticket sales since 2006 -- the season after their World Series title

 

Great news. Things like this make it more likely we'll make a move this summer on the trade market if something is needed. Plus, The Cell looks a lot better with people in it.

Edited February 21, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[jphat007]

What did Kotsay's splits vs righties look like last year?