Garfien: Sox made serious play for Halladay

[BaseballNick]

OK. So they went after a big fish. That's good to see. The question now is, what big fishes will be available during the season? Assuming the usual suspects are out of the playoff race, and I defer to y'all in this forum, what players do the Sox have a legit shot at, knowing they were close to signing Halladay?

 

I'm sure we'll hear plenty more about Adrian Gonzalez, but I think Adam Dunn is a more realistic target.

[Quin]

...I am sad now.

 

Also, everyone saying we'd give up Danks, Floyd, or Beckham think about it...

 

Kyle Drabek, Travisl D'Arnaud, and Michael Taylor (who became Brett Wallace)

 

Hudson is one of the top SP prospects in the bigs, he could match Drabek.

Flowers matches D'Arnaud

Danks/Mitchell matches (or, if Mitchell, trumps) Taylor and Viciedo could match Wallace.

 

 

[fathom]

...I am sad now.

 

Also, everyone saying we'd give up Danks, Floyd, or Beckham think about it...

 

Kyle Drabek, Travisl D'Arnaud, and Michael Taylor (who became Brett Wallace)

 

Hudson is one of the top SP prospects in the bigs, he could match Drabek.

Flowers matches D'Arnaud

Danks/Mitchell matches (or, if Mitchell, trumps) Taylor and Viciedo could match Wallace.

 

The Sox guys aren't nearly as highly rated as the ones you're trying to compare them to.

[2nd_city_saint787]

And they'd still only score 1-2 runs per game.

 

 

 

posts like this are starting to erk the hell out of me, i may just leave soxtalk till a couple weeks into the season ya know when were scorin runs and all you people wake up and smell the coffee.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

...I am sad now.

 

Also, everyone saying we'd give up Danks, Floyd, or Beckham think about it...

 

Kyle Drabek, Travisl D'Arnaud, and Michael Taylor (who became Brett Wallace)

 

Hudson is one of the top SP prospects in the bigs, he could match Drabek.

Flowers matches D'Arnaud

Danks/Mitchell matches (or, if Mitchell, trumps) Taylor and Viciedo could match Wallace.

 

I would say Hudson is NOT anywhere near Drabek.

[gatnom]

This has got to be one of the silliest questions I've ever heard. Do we really need a Cy Young award winner in his prime?

 

Pitching always trumps hitting. This is why there are so many ridiculous contracts paid to pitchers and not as many for hitters.

 

The Sox' pitching was ranked second last year in ERA (and tied for first if you like ERA+), and the team finished below .500. Pitching may trump hitting, but with the skill of this pitching staff, we are getting to the point of diminishing returns.

[iamshack]

Well, to be fair, we don't know where the Jays rated our guys versus the Phillies' guys. I don't think the FO of many baseball teams go off of prospect lists inasmuch as what their own guys say.

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

posts like this are starting to erk the hell out of me, i may just leave soxtalk till a couple weeks into the season ya know when were scorin runs and all you people wake up and smell the coffee.

Go ahead. Chances are you won't be coming back till around the trade deadline.

[chw42]

This has got to be one of the silliest questions I've ever heard. Do we really need a Cy Young award winner in his prime?

 

Pitching always trumps hitting. This is why there are so many ridiculous contracts paid to pitchers and not as many for hitters.

 

But we were pretty much set in the rotation already, our hitting was not. Thus, hitting was our top priority to improve. I'd much rather have a great hitter than Halladay if I was in our current situation.

Edited February 23, 2010 by chw42

[Quin]

I would say Hudson is NOT anywhere near Drabek.

 

Why not? They've both dominated throughout the minors through AA, but Hudson did a little better at each stop, and they are both the same age. Plus, Hudson is MLB ready, Drabek may need another year.

 

 

I'm just going off statistics by the way, since I haven't seen Drabek pitch.

[fathom]

Why not? They've both dominated throughout the minors through AA, but Hudson did a little better at each stop, and they are both the same age. Plus, Hudson is MLB ready, Drabek may need another year.

 

 

I'm just going off statistics by the way, since I haven't seen Drabek pitch.

 

Drabek is rated higher according to every scouting service you will find, I'm pretty sure. Scouts don't really care what type of numbers people put up, especially college pitchers that are in A ball. Taylor's also a significantly higher rated prospect than Danks/Mitchell.

Edited February 23, 2010 by fathom

[witesoxfan]

posts like this are starting to erk the hell out of me, i may just leave soxtalk till a couple weeks into the season ya know when were scorin runs and all you people wake up and smell the coffee.

 

Plain and simply, this is not a good offense. They'll score a few runs, because there's still some power and some good hitters in the lineup, but I think the only slam dunk for a hitter that is going to have a good season is Beckham. Pierzynski and Konerko are both a year older, Quentin, Ramirez, and Teahen were all mediocre last year, Rios is coming off of a horrendous season, Pierre has never been a great hitter to begin with, and I don't think anyone knows what can be expected out of Kotsay and Jones at this point.

 

As of this moment, there's a lot that can go right with this squad, but there's a lot that can go wrong. With the rotation they have, I'd say they can't lose 90 games, and as such, I think the worst they can probably do is 74 wins, and I'd say the absolute best is around 100 wins (and thats with virtually everything going according to plan). I'm expecting anywhere between 84-88 wins with the current roster.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Why not? They've both dominated throughout the minors through AA, but Hudson did a little better at each stop, and they are both the same age. Plus, Hudson is MLB ready, Drabek may need another year.

 

 

I'm just going off statistics by the way, since I haven't seen Drabek pitch.

 

I agree statistically they are comparable, but just going by scouts and rankings and such. I have not seen Drabek pitch either, but they speak VERY highly of him.

[Crash73]

Plain and simply, this is not a good offense. They'll score a few runs, because there's still some power and some good hitters in the lineup, but I think the only slam dunk for a hitter that is going to have a good season is Beckham. Pierzynski and Konerko are both a year older, Quentin, Ramirez, and Teahen were all mediocre last year, Rios is coming off of a horrendous season, Pierre has never been a great hitter to begin with, and I don't think anyone knows what can be expected out of Kotsay and Jones at this point.

 

As of this moment, there's a lot that can go right with this squad, but there's a lot that can go wrong. With the rotation they have, I'd say they can't lose 90 games, and as such, I think the worst they can probably do is 74 wins, and I'd say the absolute best is around 100 wins (and thats with virtually everything going according to plan). I'm expecting anywhere between 84-88 wins with the current roster.

 

I agree with you completely. However, I think, given the current rotation and the knowledge that pitching propelled the Sox to a title, KW will have a itchy trigger finger this year. If the bats don't come around, a move will be made relatively quickly.

[Quin]

Drabek is rated higher according to every scouting service you will find, I'm pretty sure. Scouts don't really care what type of numbers people put up, especially college pitchers that are in A ball. Taylor's also a significantly higher rated prospect than Danks/Mitchell.

 

Wasn't that what Klaw said?

 

He completely dominated AA ball, and I mean really dominated.

 

I agree statistically they are comparable, but just going by scouts and rankings and such. I have not seen Drabek pitch either, but they speak VERY highly of him.

 

I don't go with the prospect lists, considering most of their tops end up busting. Wasn't Jay Bruce supposed to be an MVP by now? Or David Price being one of the best young pitchers in the game? All that matters was what Toronto thought of our prospects, and for all we know, it could have been highly.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I don't go with the prospect lists, considering most of their tops end up busting. Wasn't Jay Bruce supposed to be an MVP by now? Or David Price being one of the best young pitchers in the game? All that matters was what Toronto thought of our prospects, and for all we know, it could have been highly.

 

 

Regardless of whether they pan out or not, they still all hold value while they are top prospects.

[whitesoxfan101]

I disagree. Flowers/Hudson/Jordan Danks could net a LOT of players in this league.

 

Well, I agree Flowers/Hudson/Jordan Danks could net a lot of players, and throw Jared Mitchell in that mix as well. And if the very realistic scenario occurs in which the Sox are only 2 or 3 out of 1st in July, but 11th or 12th in the AL in runs, you may see those guys put to good use to acquire a big time bat.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

It makes me think if we had a deal lined up for Halladay, if we could then have a deal lined up for Adrian Gonzalez too. I doubt he would cost more than Halladay.

[Quin]

It makes me think if we had a deal lined up for Halladay, if we could then have a deal lined up for Adrian Gonzalez too. I doubt he would cost more than Halladay.

 

It's AGons contract that makes him costlier.

[Princess Dye]

Gonzalez's contract makes him of premium value (even beyond his talent)...but then again we're a few months away from him being 1.5 year rental, in some eyes.

 

If he was traded right now, he'd be appealing to more teams, in that right now everyone is in a pennant chase, so to speak. Therefore, more offers.

 

I'm surprised SD didnt see right now as the time to get the mother lode. It may be good for us that they wait, actually. Right now they'd get tons upon tons.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Princess Dye

[iamshack]

Gonzalez's contract makes him of premium value (even beyond his talent)...but then again we're a few months away from him being 1.5 year rental, in some eyes.

 

If he was traded right now, he'd be appealing to more teams, in that right now everyone is in a pennant chase, so to speak. Therefore, more offers.

 

I'm surprised SD didnt see right now as the time to get the mother lode. It may be good for us that they wait, actually. Right now they'd get tons upon tons.

I don't think that is necessarily true. Keep in mind that the sense of urgency is much less from the suitors at this point in time. So while there are more suitors now, the quality of offers might increase towards the break when the sense of urgency increases.

[Quin]

I don't think that is necessarily true. Keep in mind that the sense of urgency is much less from the suitors at this point in time. So while there are more suitors now, the quality of offers might increase towards the break when the sense of urgency increases.

 

It could also make some teams, like the Sox, agree to higher price tags.

[joeynach]

Well, to be fair, we don't know where the Jays rated our guys versus the Phillies' guys. I don't think the FO of many baseball teams go off of prospect lists inasmuch as what their own guys say.

 

Do you think the Jays brass just wanted to trade him out the AL.

[iamshack]

It could also make some teams, like the Sox, agree to higher price tags.

Very much so.

[Princess Dye]

I don't think that is necessarily true. Keep in mind that the sense of urgency is much less from the suitors at this point in time. So while there are more suitors now, the quality of offers might increase towards the break when the sense of urgency increases.

 

 

Of course, if you are contending at a trade deadline...then chances are you arent looking for a 1B/DH because that was probably already in place during your nice run. Contenders tend to spend their prospects at the deadline on more pitching.

 

Although with all the instability with DHes these days, I suppose that's not necessarily always true. Or makes the point of more-suitors-now MORE true. Hm.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Princess Dye