How do you feel about the Designated Hitter?

[Quin]

Minorities

 

Well played, well played.

 

But since we're adding to the list, might as well had 2-man rotations.

[knightni]

Bring back the spit ball!

[Kalapse]

Get rid of hit. I might not like watching pitchers hit, but having them in the lineups makes things far more interesting from a strategic stand-point and its the way baseball should be played.

 

im a fan of the DH, and theres one arguement from non-DH enthusiasts that drives me nuts...and its the "the DH takes the managers strategy out of the game...you can't double switch in the AL"

 

Please ...like the double switch is something so difficult that a guy who has dedicated his life to baseball can't understand? IMO the prevalence of the double switch takes LESS managerial wit/instinct than in the AL rules. The double switch move is so obvious you can derive a basic algorithm for it, and it makes pitching changes SIGNIFICANTLY easier. Its easy to take a guy out in the 6th when he's at 94 pitches and due up first the next inning. The situation helps make the decision for the manager. In the AL, you have to know your pitchers better and have a better feel for when a guy is done and when he isn't.

I believe this is a terrific counterpoint to that argument.

[witesoxfan]

You can also include pre-game strategy, being lineup making. There's a science behind it, but it's not exactly, and actually determining who is going to DH is, you know, a big deal.

[Soxfest]

I love the DH.............Nothing is more boring than the 7-8-9 of most all NL lineups!

[hogan873]

I voted to get rid of it, but I wouldn't mind seeing it added to the NL. If both leagues were the same (in regards to pitchers hitting or not), one would have to wonder if there would be more interleague play.

[Sox It To Em]

I'll be the first to agree that the strategy argument in favor of no-DH is often overstated, but I like how pinch-hitting and the bench play a much greater role in the NL than in the AL (teams managed by Ozzie Guillen notwithstanding). It's a purer form of baseball. On the other hand, there are plenty of arguments in favor of the DH, chiefly that it protects pitchers from injury and prolongs careers. I enjoy both forms of baseball and think they both deserve to exist, so I prefer the current setup. I like the fact that there is a meaningful difference between the two leagues.

 

[JPN366]

I prefer the DH, but how about making it optional? Say the Brewers and the Cubs play. Milwaukee decides to use the DH with Prince Fielder, but the Cubs have Zambrano pitching, so they don't. Let the individual teams decide what to do game by game.

[Balta1701]

I prefer the DH, but how about making it optional? Say the Brewers and the Cubs play. Milwaukee decides to use the DH with Prince Fielder, but the Cubs have Zambrano pitching, so they don't. Let the individual teams decide what to do game by game.

As was noted earlier in this thread...Zambrano with the bat is basically the equivalent of Wilson Betemit. Career .639 OPS. The only pitcher in MLB that anyone would have hit by choice is Micah Owings, and he's basically been the last 2 years the equivalent of what we're praying we get out of our DH slot this year, which is "mediocre but not awful".

[JPN366]

As was noted earlier in this thread...Zambrano with the bat is basically the equivalent of Wilson Betemit. Career .639 OPS. The only pitcher in MLB that anyone would have hit by choice is Micah Owings, and he's basically been the last 2 years the equivalent of what we're praying we get out of our DH slot this year, which is "mediocre but not awful".

 

Just giving an example. Game to game, teams could choose whether or not to use the DH based on whether the pitcher is a decent hitter or not.

[Kalapse]

I prefer the DH, but how about making it optional? Say the Brewers and the Cubs play. Milwaukee decides to use the DH with Prince Fielder, but the Cubs have Zambrano pitching, so they don't. Let the individual teams decide what to do game by game.

Aside from 2008 Carlos Zambrano has been a well below replacement level hitter and he's about as good as it gets (sans Micah Owings) when it comes to offensive production from a SP. If you have even a decent major league hitter on your bench (Xavier Nady for example) you're going with the bench player over the SP 100 times out of 100. And that's even before taking injury risk into account *cough* jakepeavy *cough*. The 2 best offensive pitchers over the past 10 years are Brandon Backe and Mike Hampton (the only starters sans Owings with 50+ PA and a .700+ OPS) and they're also two of the biggest injury risks you're ever gonna see. No sane manager would allow either to hit and open themselves up to additional risk of injury when they could just pencil Jeff Keppinger or Darin Erstad into the lineup.

 

And no Carlos Zambrano pinch hitting in the 7th inning or Jason Marquis pinch running in the 10th isn't the same thing. That's late in a close game using National League rules where position players start to get scarce so you use one of your athletic pitchers for a half inning rather than burning a position player that you may need for extended innings later on in the game.

[Balta1701]

Just giving an example. Game to game, teams could choose whether or not to use the DH based on whether the pitcher is a decent hitter or not.

Basically, the only time the pitcher would ever hit would be Owings in your model. That's my point. A backup IF produces more offense than 99% of the league's pitchers.

[JPN366]

Just saying it should be optional game to game for each team. They would just have to declare DH or no DH before the game started.

[Kalapse]

Just saying it should be optional game to game for each team. They would just have to declare DH or no DH before the game started.

And every team aside from the Reds 20 times a season would declare DH every time.

[JPN366]

Basically, the only time the pitcher would ever hit would be Owings in your model. That's my point. A backup IF produces more offense than 99% of the league's pitchers.

 

I know. But, if you wanted to use matchups and pinch hitters or just use the DH, you'd have the option. It would be a way of using strategy.

[earthshiner]

Just saying it should be optional game to game for each team. They would just have to declare DH or no DH before the game started.

I think it is technically optional

[Kalapse]

I think it is technically optional

That's actually true and a reason why his scenario makes little sense. The DH in the AL is technically optional yet you never saw the Indians forfeit the designated hitter and allow CC Sabathia to hit for "matchup" purposes because even though he has the 6th highest OPS and 4th highest AVG of any SP over the past 10 years (min 50 PA) he's still a well below replacement level hitter, oh and an enormous man who could easily injury himself running the bases or swinging a bat.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I prefer the DH, but how about making it optional? Say the Brewers and the Cubs play. Milwaukee decides to use the DH with Prince Fielder, but the Cubs have Zambrano pitching, so they don't. Let the individual teams decide what to do game by game.

Is it how the system is now in the AL? Pretty sure AL pitchers have hit in AL games somewhat recently, though that was due to managerial error rather than them actually being capable hitters.

 

EDIT: OK, yeah I was right. Matt Garza hit against us in 2007. Hipolito Pichardo in 2000. There's been a few more too, pretty sure.

 

EDIT2: Twins have actually done it a lot recently...once each of the past 3 seasons due to Redmond getting hurt. Yankees forfeited their DH in the playoffs last year, as did Oakland in a regular season game. As for starting a game with the pitcher in the line-up, the Rays did it last year due to a Joe Maddon blunder.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Buehrle>Wood

[Kalapse]

Is it how the system is now in the AL? Pretty sure AL pitchers have hit in AL games somewhat recently, though that was due to managerial error rather than them actually being capable hitters.

 

EDIT: OK, yeah I was right. MAtt Garza hit against us in 2007. Hipolito Pichardo in 2000. There's been a few more too, pretty sure.

Andy Sonanstine hit 3rd vs CLE last season due to a f***up by Dave Martinez. He actually went 1 for 3 with a double and an RBI.

 

And Garza ended up hitting because Mike Redmond got hurt very early in that game and the backup catcher (Joe Mauer) was the starting DH so they were forced to forfeit the designated hitter for the remainder of the game when Mauer took over catching duties. Even without a DH the Twins still pummeled up something like 12-0.

[EvilMonkey]

I would rather not see my pitchers, who get paid millions to throw the ball well, try and hit, perhaps break a finger on an inside fastball, or pull a hammy while trying to go from first to third. Mark Prior was never the same after his infield collision, which wouldn't have happened had there been a DH. I just have no desire to watch a pitcher bunt because that is the only way he can put bat on ball.

[JoeBatterz]

 

I really like it as is, but I would not mind if they added it to the NL as well.