Competitors for the open bullpen slot

[scenario]

An excerpt of a training camp update from the Trib's Mark Gonzalez...

 

White Sox update: Cabrera presents a puzzle

 

Sunny and dry weather allowed the White Sox's pitchers and catchers to perform all their work outside. Much attention was given to pitchers Daniel Cabrera.

 

Cabrera, at 6-foot-9 and 260 pounds, is an enigma to the Sox. Cabrera throws 97 mph. But he's been plagued by wildness, as evidenced by his 51 walks in 42 innings with Washington and Arizona last season.

 

"I want him to worry about one pitch - fastball right in the middle of the plate and then take care of the rest,'' manager Ozzie Guillen said. "I don't see why this kid with that kind of arm is bouncing around all over the place.

 

"Maybe too much coaching. Trying to be perfect. Too much stuff. Here, our philosophy is throw as hard as you can, try to hit the middle of the plate and go for it.''

 

Cabrera is a non-roster invitee competing with the likes of Sergio Santos and Freddy Dolsi for the final spot in the bullpen

Edited February 24, 2010 by NorthSideSox72

[chw42]

If Cabrera is throwing 97 again, I want him on this team.

[DGSOXFan14]

I love the approach we are taking with him. Basically, just start all over and learn the basics and use your strengths to help propel you to the bigs again. I for one am a huge fan of his signing and am definitely looking forward to what he can prove and show us all. His attitude should go a long way in the eyes of the Sox, if he can come in here and want to learn everything he can and be coached, I have no doubt he can do big things for us in the future.

 

[Vote4Pedro]

maybe coop can fix his accuracy

[scenario]

Santos making huge strides on the mound (mlb.com article)

 

I'm anxious to hear about Sergio Santos' development this spring. If they can harness him in a little, he could be really really interesting. He was rated as having the second best fastball in the Arizona Fall League... only behind Strasburg.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2010 by scenario

[RockRaines]

Want to know whats funny? Thats is almost the exact opposite of Coop's approach, he has even had guys take MPH off their pitches for more control and bite. He generally wants the pitcher to have a free and repeatable motion, which i think he will be working on with Cabrera.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If Cabrera is throwing 97 again, I want him on this team.

 

MacDougal 2.0

[caulfield12]

What the heck is the deal with our "relief" pitching philosophy?

 

MacDougal, Masset, Sisco and Aardsma were coached to try to pitch more than throw...to very mixed results. The same thing with Jon Adkins. Maybe it's simply that if you have 2-3 pitches, you can get away with the loss of velocity...but if you don't have velocity OR movement in the pen, you'll get murdered with predominantly one pitch (see Joel Zumaya). Finally, they just gave up with MacDougal and went back to the throw it at the middle of the plate and let natural movement work to your advantage strategy, due to the failure of everything else to work with him.

 

Looking forward to the competition with Dolsi, Santos, Cabrera, Nunez....who emerges and makes it out of camp. Those are very nice arms (especially the first 3), when they're healthy. Santeliz, too.

 

I think the odds are definitely in favor of Hudson starting in the minors instead of working as the long man unless he just dominates, and there's always the possibility with Garcia of injury at any moment.

 

Also feels like Omogrosso has fallen off the map after looking very good in ST last year.

Edited February 24, 2010 by caulfield12

[elrockinMT]

If Cabrera is throwing 97 again, I want him on this team.

 

 

Unless he is wild and can't get people out

[caulfield12]

I sincerely doubt that 97 number has any current meaning.

 

I would be really shocked if he was throwing that hard so early in ST, let alone at any point in the season...after all those injuries. I think 89-93 ends up being much more likely.

[Dick Allen]

Cabrera has a slightly better chance of helping the White Sox this year than I do.

[Dick Allen]

I sincerely doubt that 97 number has any current meaning.

 

I would be really shocked if he was throwing that hard so early in ST, let alone at any point in the season...after all those injuries. I think 89-93 ends up being much more likely.

I think the past 10 years the only White Sox pitcher who was considered to be a flamethrower I ever saw that actually threw as hard as advertised was Jenks, although Clayton Richard may qualify as he threw pretty hard but it really wasn't advertised all that much.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Dick Allen

[ThunderBolt]

I think the past 10 years the only White Sox pitcher who was considered to be a flamethrower I ever saw that actually threw as hard as advertised was Jenks, although Clayton Richard may qualify as he threw pretty hard but it really wasn't advertised all that much.

I recall how excited we were for the vaunted Poreda fastball. He averaged, what? 93, at the big league level?

[nitetrain8601]

If it's between him and Hudson, I want Hudson to get the long spot much like the development of Haren, Santana and Buehrle. I'm a huge Daniel Cabrera fan, but I know Coop's philosophy with him would be to take a few ticks off the fastball for control.

[caulfield12]

I don't have the averages in front of me, but it felt like Poreda was at 91-94 most of the time.

 

That was the biggest shock, beginning in spring training last year. That Clayton Richard, even as a starter, was throwing consistently and for a much longer duration at 92-95 and sometimes a tick higher depending on the gun. Before the season, Richard was billed as a loogy or fifth starter but almost nobody talked about his stuff...whereas Poreda had the "hype" surrounding his fastball from the time he was drafted.

 

I think Nathan Jones, when he pitches for the White Sox, will end up in the low 90's somehow as well.

 

The list goes on and on...Felix Diaz, Adkins, Aaron Myette, Lorenzo Barcelo (although he was injured), Rob Purvis, Royce Ring, Broadway, McCulloch, Sean Tracey, etc. I don't have any understanding how Matt Ginter was ever as hyped as he was, not only in college but also coming up through the minors.

 

I guess Danny Wright, when he first came up (before the injury)....had some very nice stuff. But nothing like Jason Bere ten years prior.

Edited February 24, 2010 by caulfield12

[scenario]

Poreda is high 90's out of the windup and low 90's out of the stretch.

 

The reason you remember the low 90's is the game situations he was brought into resulted in him pitching out of the stretch.

[Rooftop Shots]

Let me guess. Is this another one of KW's guys on a list that he states "He's been on our radar and we've been wanting him for a long time now." One thing I agree with, we've had plenty of "rocket-ballers " in the recent past who threw hard, but either had no movement, or was all over the place. 97' is nice on the gun...............but unless there is control with movement........what good is it?

We've been down that road before with near 100mph guys who got shelled or walked the Bugs Bunny bases loaded cartoon!

[Quin]

I recall how excited we were for the vaunted Poreda fastball. He averaged, what? 93, at the big league level?

 

At the Dodgers 13 inning game, he was overpowering the Dodgers players.

 

If they trade for Gonzalez, I'd try and include some throw ins to get Poreda back. I think he could be a good lefty out the pen.

[Kalapse]

At the Dodgers 13 inning game, he was overpowering the Dodgers players.

 

If they trade for Gonzalez, I'd try and include some throw ins to get Poreda back. I think he could be a good lefty out the pen.

Looking at PitchFX data; Poreda threw 13 fastballs in that game (no runners reached base on him so I assume they were all from the windup), the average velocity on his fastball was 92.35 MPH with a max speed of 93.6.

 

For reference: Jenks and Thornton were both clocked at about 95/96 (avg/max) in that same game.

[Quin]

Looking at PitchFX data; Poreda threw 13 fastballs in that game (no runners reached base on him so I assume they were all from the windup), the average velocity on his fastball was 92.35 MPH with a max speed of 93.6.

 

For reference: Jenks and Thornton were both clocked at about 95/96 (avg/max) in that same game.

 

Eh, I was going by eye, because most people were gone at that point so I went and sat around the plate.

 

Maybe the Dodgers were just tired by that point.

[whitesoxfan101]

I have an irrational fear of putting Dan Hudson in the long relief spot after the Brandon McCarthy experiment in 2006. I'm not sure if i'm a big fan of Cabrera being on the team either though.

[greg775]

Cabrera has a slightly better chance of helping the White Sox this year than I do.

 

I'd agree.

If he couldn't throw strikes as a starter, I don't like his odds any better as a reliever.

I wonder if they can teach him to just throw out of the stretch and try to develop some control. Isn't he a clone of MacDougal?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Isn't he a clone of MacDougal?

 

Yes.

 

MacDougal 2.0

 

[SoxAce]

Santos making huge strides on the mound (mlb.com article)

 

I'm anxious to hear about Sergio Santos' development this spring. If they can harness him in a little, he could be really really interesting. He was rated as having the second best fastball in the Arizona Fall League... only behind Strasburg.

 

Well.. he's out of options. So the sox are going to give him every opportunity to make the big club, because they like him alot. I wouldn't be surprised if it was another Masset/Wassermann situation as far as Masset making it cause of the no options reason. We'll see who pitches well in ST. (ala the "Wassermann" guy)

[witesoxfan]

I can think of about 4 or 5 other pitchers I'd rather see make the major league roster over Daniel Cabrera. Cabrera has to prove himself in the minors before he even merits consideration. All this talk about Cabrera is simply spring training fluff.