Competitors for the open bullpen slot

[Dick Allen]

I know Linebrink has had good 1st halfs in recent years. And he likely will be around. But his contract could be a big albatross going forward--esp. going into 2011, with them not being able to afford both Jenks and Putz. The sox could be looking at an ineffective Linebrink and his $5 mill. and deciding between an expensive Jenks or a risky Putz. Hudson could fill Linebrink's role at a fraction of the cost this year, and the sox could then afford both Jenks and Putz next.

 

I wouldn't part with Linebrink unless one of Hynick, Torres, or Marquez really stepped up to take the long man spot, to go along with Hudson in short relief. Santos isn't the answer and needs more time to develop as a pitcher. He's not going to get that unless he's in AAA-after being exposed to waivers. Cabrera can't solve his control problems in one spring.

They obviously have money to burn this year, so its not an albatross in 2010. Maybe it will be next year, but why get rid of him now? If he's a lock to be horrible in the second half, shouldn't the data used to provide that conclusion also conclude he should be lights out the first half? And if Jenks is too expensive and Putz too risky, why would you want both on the team in 2011? Let it play out. You can never have too many relievers who can get people out. A couple of these guys will probably be ineffective or get hurt. I think Linebrink comes up pretty big this year. His arm problem is behind him and he's coming off 2 years of less workload. I think he can stay strong the entire year. If he can throw his breaking ball for strikes, he will help immensely. I don't see it being a lock Putz returns to his 2007 form, or Jenks becomes a beast again (although his new dedication with the weight and the drinking can only be encouraging). If the Sox really needed the money to make a run at someone, I could see trying to pawn him off, but they aren't in that situation.

[Dick Allen]

I think it's a bit too soon to say that. One of the advantages of having a deep rotation and a kid like Hudson is that it gives you the chance to take a gamble on at least one spot for the pen. IF dealing Linebrink frees up money, or brings some small improvement to the team, then you do it. Especially, if Santos' newly found control is for real.

 

You don't want Santos on the mound if the Sox really need to get someone out when it counts, quite yet. He has some nice tools but it would be insane to take away the guy definitely could help the Sox in 2010 based on a spring training outing on March 5.

 

If the Sox didn't think they had a legitimate chance to win in 2010, then by all means, take your lumps and put him on the roster. You have to be bad before you are good. Santos is going to struggle somewhere this year.

[beck72]

They obviously have money to burn this year, so its not an albatross in 2010. Maybe it will be next year, but why get rid of him now? If he's a lock to be horrible in the second half, shouldn't the data used to provide that conclusion also conclude he should be lights out the first half? And if Jenks is too expensive and Putz too risky, why would you want both on the team in 2011? Let it play out. You can never have too many relievers who can get people out. A couple of these guys will probably be ineffective or get hurt. I think Linebrink comes up pretty big this year. His arm problem is behind him and he's coming off 2 years of less workload. I think he can stay strong the entire year. If he can throw his breaking ball for strikes, he will help immensely. I don't see it being a lock Putz returns to his 2007 form, or Jenks becomes a beast again (although his new dedication with the weight and the drinking can only be encouraging). If the Sox really needed the money to make a run at someone, I could see trying to pawn him off, but they aren't in that situation.

A few things:

*If a team like the Cubs are in dire need of an arm, it may be the exact time to move him. Linebrink may good in the 1st half, but overall, it's highly unlikely he'll be worth the $10 mill. owed him the next 2 years.

 

*As far as Putz/ Jenks for 2011, worst case scenario, there is a risk that both aren't sure things and the sox can only afford one if they have Linebrink on the roster. I think an in shape/ done with drinking Jenks should bounce back in 2010. And Putz seems healthy and should be decent this year. Yet if Linebrink blows again, the sox are stuck with him and would have to make a decision on either Jenks or Putz. IMO, Putz / Jenks >>> than Linebrink and either Jenks or Putz. And it gives the sox financial flexibility to add a bat

 

Right now, the Cubs may gamble on Linebrink being healthy and being effective for them in the NL. For the sox, I think it's more of a gamble to hold onto him and expect him to earn his $10 mill. Esp. if the sox think Hudson could fill Linebrink's spot. I really like Hudson this year as a Scot Shields type who go two innings to get the game into the 9th.

 

[scenario]

The decision to send Hudson to Triple-A Charlotte as a starting pitcher or keep him as a reliever "is something that goes through our minds every meeting we have," manager Ozzie Guillen said.

[ThunderBolt]

The decision to send Hudson to Triple-A Charlotte as a starting pitcher or keep him as a reliever "is something that goes through our minds every meeting we have," manager Ozzie Guillen said.

I like him in the pen as our new Brandon McCarthy. It's a nice learning curve for a young pitcher.

[beck72]

The decision to send Hudson to Triple-A Charlotte as a starting pitcher or keep him as a reliever "is something that goes through our minds every meeting we have," manager Ozzie Guillen said.

If he's one of the best pitchers in the bullpen, I think the sox have to go with him. If the starting 5 are all healthy during spring, and able to get their work in, Hudson should be in the bullpen. If there are any health questions about the 5 SP's or setbacks, then I think Hudson may start in AAA.

[soxrwhite]

Keep Hudson and Santos in the pen and get rid of Linebrink

[ScottyDo]

Keep Hudson and Santos in the pen and get rid of Linebrink

nah, keep santos in the pen until the ASB, THEN get rid of linebrink before he implodes and call up hudson. i dont know what you do with linebrink though, his salary is too high to trade and i doubt any GM would just ditch that salary and DFA him either. maybe, though.

[soxrwhite]

He could suck right from the get go. The guy scares me when ever I see him warming up. Big money and big name I don't know what Kenney can do. I guess trot him out there for a while longer and hope & pray. Something has to give with him soon though, not only is he hurting us now but he is holding others back.

[southsider2k5]

I like him in the pen as our new Brandon McCarthy. It's a nice learning curve for a young pitcher.

 

The thing is that McCarthy really feels his growth was stunted by his time in the pen. Would that happen to Hudson? Who knows.

[ThunderBolt]

The thing is that McCarthy really feels his growth was stunted by his time in the pen. Would that happen to Hudson? Who knows.

I always thought that McCarthy’s issues with this organization were more about the public statements Ozzie kept giving about him and BA, and less about his time spent in the pen. As is stands, the bullpen is the best chance for Hudson to get innings at the major league level, while letting him work with Don Cooper on a daily basis. He seems excited for the oppurtunity, hopefully he'll embrace it and flourish.

[Kyyle23]

I always thought that McCarthy’s issues with this organization were more about the public statements Ozzie kept giving about him and BA, and less about his time spent in the pen. As is stands, the bullpen is the best chance for Hudson to get innings at the major league level, while letting him work with Don Cooper on a daily basis. He seems excited for the oppurtunity, hopefully he'll embrace it and flourish.

 

McCarthy may of had Ozzie ripping him for his nightlife, but he certainly did not flourish in the pen. IIRC, he got lit up a lot. Im not saying it would happen with Hudson, every pitcher is different and reacts differently(Adam Wainwright and Johan Santana were killer in the pen), but if the Sox truly want him to be a starter in the long run, and possibly this season, there is no reason to bring him up with the club and give him minimal innings.

[Balta1701]

there is no reason to bring him up with the club and give him minimal innings.

This is also probably important enough to stress. He's 22 currently, turns 23 in May.

 

His innings the last 3 years:

 

102

92 @ ODU, 69 @ Great Falls, 161 total.

Last year, 147 between 4 levels.

 

150 innings isn't a bad place for an arm to be starting at. But...Dropping him back to 50 innings so that Ozzie can use him in the bullpen...that's a step backwards, not forwards.

[SouthsideDon48]

I'm curious to know what everyone's projections of Hudson as a major league starter would be.

[ThunderBolt]

I'm curious to know what everyone's projections of Hudson as a major league starter would be.

One of baseball prospectus' comps was Matt Garza. I could see that kind of learning curve, coupled with eventually solid results.

[southsider2k5]

That would be the best homegrown pitcher here since Mark Buehrle.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

This is also probably important enough to stress. He's 22 currently, turns 23 in May.

 

His innings the last 3 years:

 

102

92 @ ODU, 69 @ Great Falls, 161 total.

Last year, 147 between 4 levels.

 

150 innings isn't a bad place for an arm to be starting at. But...Dropping him back to 50 innings so that Ozzie can use him in the bullpen...that's a step backwards, not forwards.

 

Great point. I'd also like to refrain from treating him the way the Yankees have with Joba Chamberlain. If you feel Hudson can be a solid starting pitcher for years to come, don't rush him for the sake of putting him in the pen. Let him remain a starting pitcher in AAA as insurance if one of our starters goes down.

[Jordan4life_2007]

One of baseball prospectus' comps was Matt Garza. I could see that kind of learning curve, coupled with eventually solid results.

 

I'll take that in a heartbeat.

 

That would be the best homegrown pitcher here since Mark Buehrle.

 

It's amazing that you have to go back that far.

[scenario]

Link

 

The competition for the final spot in the bullpen could be sorted out somewhat Tuesday, as the first round of cuts are expected.

[NorthSideSox72]

Link

 

The competition for the final spot in the bullpen could be sorted out somewhat Tuesday, as the first round of cuts are expected.

I think Dolsi, Cabrera and possibly Threets have made bad enough showings (early) that they may now be out of the picture. Williams has the LOOGY job unless he looks awful. The last spot in the pen will come down to Santos or Hudson, and I'd bet they want Hudson getting more innings, and they keep Santos.

 

[Kalapse]

I think Dolsi, Cabrera and possibly Threets have made bad enough showings (early) that they may now be out of the picture. Williams has the LOOGY job unless he looks awful. The last spot in the pen will come down to Santos or Hudson, and I'd bet they want Hudson getting more innings, and they keep Santos.

This is shaping up to be one of the more boring spring trainings in recent memory, the roster is basically set so we have no interesting roster battles left to watch. All that's left is getting a sneak peek at the young talent in the system before they start getting cut, the next month is going to be excruciating.

[NorthSideSox72]

This is shaping up to be one of the more boring spring trainings in recent memory, the roster is basically set so we have no interesting roster battles left to watch. All that's left is getting a sneak peek at the young talent in the system before they start getting cut, the next month is going to be excruciating.

I think if Williams looks really bad, then the LOOGY job gets interesting, with Threets and maybe even Leesman in play. But that seems unlikely.

 

The final righty spot... I think there are still three guys in play - Santos, Hudson and Torres. That might be interesting in the next week or two, possibly.

 

The bench? Assuming we are carrying 7 in the pen, then three guys are set: Castro, Jones/Kotsay, Vizquel. That does leave one open slot for Nix, Retherford, De Aza or someone else, if I am not mistaken.

 

ETA: Lillibridge may have an outside shot too, or possibly Gartrell.

 

[Kalapse]

I think if Williams looks really bad, then the LOOGY job gets interesting, with Threets and maybe even Leesman in play. But that seems unlikely.

 

The final righty spot... I think there are still three guys in play - Santos, Hudson and Torres. That might be interesting in the next week or two, possibly.

 

The bench? Assuming we are carrying 7 in the pen, then three guys are set: Castro, Jones/Kotsay, Vizquel. That does leave one open slot for Nix, Retherford, De Aza or someone else, if I am not mistaken.

That final bench spot is almost undoubtedly going to Nix, both of their DH's are capable of playing the outfield, the only bench player capable of playing the infield is Vizquel and he's 42, Nix is out of options and Retherford isn't even on the 40 man roster. Nix did enough last year to earn himself a spot on this year's roster given his competition and they're not going to open him up to waivers in order to carry a 24 years old who's never hit above AA in Retherford. The only think working in De Aza's favor is his great speed and I think the coaching staff sees Nix/Vizquel as an acceptable pinch running combo or at least enough so to not require a bench job be allocated to a player who's sole purpose would be such.

 

I don't think Hudson is making the team, he'll go down and get consistent innings in AAA as he should. So that last spot is between Santos and Torres in my mind and I think Santos has already shown enough that they wouldn't want to open him up to waivers either (even though there's a 89% chance he'd clear), he'd have to blow up to fall behind the incredibly underwhelming Torres (good god is his arsenal banal).

 

Even so, a battle for the final 2 spots in the bullpen (roles that are often influx during the season anyway) aren't exactly what I would call interesting.

[soxrwhite]

I think Dolsi, Cabrera and possibly Threets have made bad enough showings (early) that they may now be out of the picture. Williams has the LOOGY job unless he looks awful. The last spot in the pen will come down to Santos or Hudson, and I'd bet they want Hudson getting more innings, and they keep Santos.

 

 

Yep, I think you hit it just right.

[NorthSideSox72]

That final bench spot is almost undoubtedly going to Nix, both of their DH's are capable of playing the outfield, the only bench player capable of playing the infield is Vizquel and he's 42, Nix is out of options and Retherford isn't even on the 40 man roster. Nix did enough last year to earn himself a spot on this year's roster given his competition and they're not going to open him up to waivers in order to carry a 24 years old who's never hit above AA in Retherford. The only think working in De Aza's favor is his great speed and I think the coaching staff sees Nix/Vizquel as an acceptable pinch running combo or at least enough so to not require a bench job be allocated to a player who's sole purpose would be such.

 

I don't think Hudson is making the team, he'll go down and get consistent innings in AAA as he should. So that last spot is between Santos and Torres in my mind and I think Santos has already shown enough that they wouldn't want to open him up to waivers either (even though there's a 89% chance he'd clear), he'd have to blow up to fall behind the incredibly underwhelming Torres (good god is his arsenal banal).

 

Even so, a battle for the final 2 spots in the bullpen (roles that are often influx during the season anyway) aren't exactly what I would call interesting.

You think there is a 99% chance that Santos clears waivers? I think someone would pick him. He's got a nice set of tools and has shown some promise, to go with that sexy fastball velocity.