Competitors for the open bullpen slot

[Kalapse]

You think there is a 99% chance that Santos clears waivers? I think someone would pick him. He's got a nice set of tools and has shown some promise, to go with that sexy fastball velocity.

89%

 

There are a lot of guys out there just like him, there will be 5-10 guys cut between now and the end of spring with awesome stuff and considerable upside but a total lack of command or understanding of pitching in general. And if he is cut it'll be very late in camp - probably the few days - lowering the odds of him being claimed, I think that 11% is enough to make Santos a lock to make this club though.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think Dolsi, Cabrera and possibly Threets have made bad enough showings (early) that they may now be out of the picture. Williams has the LOOGY job unless he looks awful. The last spot in the pen will come down to Santos or Hudson, and I'd bet they want Hudson getting more innings, and they keep Santos.

 

Not to mention that this will give Hudson a chance to prove that last year's dominance wasn't a fluke. Therefore increasing his already pretty solid trade value. Best case scenario would definitely be Santos flourishing (or at least pitching well) this spring and Hudson in the minors.

[thedoctor]

Not to mention that this will give Hudson a chance to prove that last year's dominance wasn't a fluke. Therefore increasing his already pretty solid trade value. Best case scenario would definitely be Santos flourishing (or at least pitching well) this spring and Hudson in the minors.

 

this is a great point. i am not sure how hudson can enhance his value by pitching limited innings in relief and his value to someone else is as much of the part of the equation as his value to the white sox is.

[Balta1701]

this is a great point. i am not sure how hudson can enhance his value by pitching limited innings in relief

Well...if he came out and pulled off something like the 1204 ERA+ that Joba Chamberlain pulled off in 24 innings in 2007...

[JPN366]

I think Randy Williams was cut. He's no longer on the roster on MLB.com and if you search him, he doesn't have a team listed next to his name.

[southsider2k5]

I think Randy Williams was cut. He's no longer on the roster on MLB.com and if you search him, he doesn't have a team listed next to his name.

 

Eh, that could mean MLB just screwed up too. It doesn't make sense that that favorite for the job would be gone before St Pats day.

[JPN366]

Eh, that could mean MLB just screwed up too. It doesn't make sense that that favorite for the job would be gone before St Pats day.

 

I know, just mentioning it in case it's true.

[SoxAce]

I think Dolsi, Cabrera and possibly Threets have made bad enough showings (early) that they may now be out of the picture. Williams has the LOOGY job unless he looks awful. The last spot in the pen will come down to Santos or Hudson, and I'd bet they want Hudson getting more innings, and they keep Santos.

 

Actually Threets has not pitched bad at all (he only ER was inherited by Santos) We'll see how his control is, as that has always been his bug-a-boo. I like him much more than Williams though. I still think Santos would win it regardless cause of politics unless he had a 8 era or something.

[scenario]

Hudson throwing well, but Guillen wants him to begin season as starter in Triple A.

Sox manager wants him ready to step in if hole develops in rotation

Edited March 11, 2010 by scenario

[earthshiner]

I think Randy Williams was cut. He's no longer on the roster on MLB.com and if you search him, he doesn't have a team listed next to his name.

he pitched today

[bighurt4life]

Im not sure if Santos is ready to hold down a spot in the bigs just yet, he does have a great FB but really nothing else. I watched him pitch a couple of innings so far and all he seems to have is a pretty weak slider to go with an explosive FB that he can't control yet. Big time arm or not, he isn't a mlb quality reliever yet.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Hudson throwing well, but Guillen wants him to begin season as starter in Triple A.

Sox manager wants him ready to step in if hole develops in rotation

 

Good. I completely agree with this.

[Balta1701]

Hudson throwing well, but Guillen wants him to begin season as starter in Triple A.

Sox manager wants him ready to step in if hole develops in rotation

Excellent news!

[southsider2k5]

Hudson throwing well, but Guillen wants him to begin season as starter in Triple A.

Sox manager wants him ready to step in if hole develops in rotation

 

That is 100% perfect. I am glad to see the team doing the right thing.

[Balta1701]

That is 100% perfect. I am glad to see the team doing the right thing.

I was worried we'd rotate him in at DH.

 

Not in green.

[NorthSideSox72]

With Santos looking good, everyone seems to be of the mind that the pen will look like this:

 

Jenks

Putz

Thornton

Pena

Linebrink

Williams

Santos

 

Anyone else notice what's missing here?

 

[Balta1701]

Anyone else notice what's missing here?

Are you thinking of long relief?

[NorthSideSox72]

Are you thinking of long relief?

Yes. How many of those guys have any kind of history of going more than an inning with any regularity? Who is going to eat innings when a starter falters? As good as the Sox starting staff is, those situations will still come up on occasion.

 

[Balta1701]

Yes. How many of those guys have any kind of history of going more than an inning with any regularity? Who is going to eat innings when a starter falters? As good as the Sox starting staff is, those situations will still come up on occasion.

If we had a 6 man bullpen, I'd be more concerned about that. A 7 man pen can last longer. Guys are going to be used less often anyway.

[ScottyDo]

Are you thinking of long relief?

A couple of years back, when we were talking about the long relief spot and Nick Massett, some people said we didn't need a long reliever. I countered with something like, "what if buehrle goes out on opening day, puts up 2 2/3 innings with 7ER and someone needs to eat the rest of the innings?" Then, Buehrle proceeded to put up the exact stats I suggested and Massett came in for long relief and actually did quite well. Now, clearly, I lucked into the stats and Massett didn't end up being anything special, but the point remains the same: we NEED someone in the pen that can go 3-5 innings if necessary. Without someone like that, you could very well shoot the entire bullpen in the foot. I'm starting to think we should just give up on the love affair with Santos, no matter how live his fastball is, and stick with Mr. Pedestrian, Torres.

[Balta1701]

A couple of years back, when we were talking about the long relief spot and Nick Massett, some people said we didn't need a long reliever. I countered with something like, "what if buehrle goes out on opening day, puts up 2 2/3 innings with 7ER and someone needs to eat the rest of the innings?" Then, Buehrle proceeded to put up the exact stats I suggested and Massett came in for long relief and actually did quite well. Now, clearly, I lucked into the stats and Massett didn't end up being anything special, but the point remains the same: we NEED someone in the pen that can go 3-5 innings if necessary. Without someone like that, you could very well shoot the entire bullpen in the foot. I'm starting to think we should just give up on the love affair with Santos, no matter how live his fastball is, and stick with Mr. Pedestrian, Torres.

My counter-example is going to be 2005. For most of that season we got by with a 6 man bullpen and no one who could go more than 2.1 innings. Hermanson, Politte, Cotts, Marte, Vizcaino, and a rotating spot that went between Takatsu, Jenks, Adkins, etc.

 

We lost exactly 1 game that season because we ran out of arms and Viz's arm turned to jelly after 2.1 innings in extras, and that was with a 6 man pen.

 

A 7 man pen can manage broken-up games as long as your starters don't regularly give those games to the pen. The White Sox starting pitching has been in the top 5 in baseball in innings pitched every single year since 2003, and they're literally 6 deep this year (After checking,t that's a fairly remarkable feat, I can't find another team that has been in the top 5 more than 2 years in a row). If Santos can come in and give us 1 solid inning a lot of times this year, he's worth more to us than carrying Torres as a reliever for now, unless there's a huge issue with someone.

[GoSox05]

Carrasco who was long relief last year only pitched 4 or more innings twice and once was a start.

 

He pitched 3 innings on eight occasions.

 

 

I would rather leave Hudson and Torres in the minors, so they can start and be ready for spot starts.

[southsider2k5]

With Santos looking good, everyone seems to be of the mind that the pen will look like this:

 

Jenks

Putz

Thornton

Pena

Linebrink

Williams

Santos

 

Anyone else notice what's missing here?

 

If we had young starters, I would be more worried about it. Right now only Garcia is a guy that you might have to worry about not giving you 5 to 6 innings.

[NorthSideSox72]

My counter-example is going to be 2005. For most of that season we got by with a 6 man bullpen and no one who could go more than 2.1 innings. Hermanson, Politte, Cotts, Marte, Vizcaino, and a rotating spot that went between Takatsu, Jenks, Adkins, etc.

 

We lost exactly 1 game that season because we ran out of arms and Viz's arm turned to jelly after 2.1 innings in extras, and that was with a 6 man pen.

 

A 7 man pen can manage broken-up games as long as your starters don't regularly give those games to the pen. The White Sox starting pitching has been in the top 5 in baseball in innings pitched every single year since 2003, and they're literally 6 deep this year (After checking,t that's a fairly remarkable feat, I can't find another team that has been in the top 5 more than 2 years in a row). If Santos can come in and give us 1 solid inning a lot of times this year, he's worth more to us than carrying Torres as a reliever for now, unless there's a huge issue with someone.

Vizcaino went 2 innings on many occasions, McCarthy threw long from the pen a few times, Hermanson did it a few times - which of the current guys can even do that, except on rare occasion? Pena did it twice last year.

 

I think you are pushing your luck if you don't have a guy that can go 2-3 innings with some regularity. The 2005 team did in fact have that, spread out over a few pitchers. Sure, none of them were 3-5 inning guys except McCarthy, but they had a few who went 2 innings with some regularity as a group.

 

I'm not saying its the end of the world - but I do think its an important consideration.

[Springfield Soxfan]

Cabrera with a terrible outing today, he has no chance of making the opening day roster.