Thoughts of AJP batting 5th?

[Princess Dye]

Sounds like Ozzie's going to try this. From what I've picked up from quotes the last debate left is the 5th spot. At least versus righties. AJ or Kotsay.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

AJ > Kotsay so this should be pretty easy.

[earthshiner]

seems like the best option with this lineup. Unless Teahen shows he can do it

[jphat007]

He hit like .300 last year and only knocked in 49 in 504 ABs. That's what I think of it.

[Princess Dye]

He hit like .300 last year and only knocked in 49 in 504 ABs. That's what I think of it.

 

How do you get an RBI when no one's on base? I dont know that your overall thinking is wrong, but citing solely a total # of RBIs doesnt prove much of anything. That #'s contingent on what people in front of you are doing.

[jphat007]

How do you get an RBI when no one's on base? I dont know that your overall thinking is wrong, but citing solely a total # of RBIs doesnt prove much of anything. That #'s contingent on what people in front of you are doing.

 

True. I guess I should've also added that he hit .250 with RISP. It was his nex to worst split next to bases loaded. RISP w/2 out was worse at .240 as well. He's not good at driving runs in.

Edited March 18, 2010 by jphat007

[RockRaines]

True. I guess I should've also added that he hit .250 with RISP. It was his nex to worst split next to bases loaded. RISP w/2 out was worse at .240 as well. He's not good at driving runs in.

He's a .284 hitter with RISP for his career so he isnt that bad at all.

 

 

I do prefer him hitting 6th however.

[SoxAce]

seems like the best option with this lineup. Unless Teahen shows he can do it

 

Ya Teahen potential wise (other than Jones though were talking LH stick here) is the best option, but since he's starting off slow, he'll probably bat lower. I would slightly prefer Kotsay over AJ if given the choice since Kotsay has the higher OBP (and over his career), not to mention he doesn't fall in love in getting too homer happy, and he can do more of the "little things." (moving guys over, better at sac. flies, etc..)

 

Both do not excite me as they will both be GIDP alot in that spot unfortunately. (Konerko and AJ back to back.. not a good idea, A.J. grounded into more DPs than Konerko did last season as well) Ideally though, both would be hitting much lower in a lineup.

Edited March 18, 2010 by SoxAce

[jphat007]

He's a .284 hitter with RISP for his career so he isnt that bad at all.

 

 

I do prefer him hitting 6th however.

 

.250 exactly the last three years.

[jphat007]

Ya Teahen potential wise (other than Jones though were talking LH stick here) is the best option, but since he's starting off slow, he'll probably bat lower. I would slightly prefer Kotsay over AJ if given the choice since Kotsay has the higher OBP (and over his career), not to mention he doesn't fall in love in getting too homer happy, and he can do more of the "little things." (moving guys over, better at sac. flies, etc..)

 

Both do not excite me as they will both be GIDP alot in that spot unfortunately. (Konerko and AJ back to back.. not a good idea, A.J. grounded into more DPs than Konerko did last season as well) Ideally though, both would be hitting much lower in a lineup.

 

I think it should be either Kotsay/Jones. Kotsay has hit pretty well with RISP the last three years even though he has been injured/s***ty for some of the time.

[witesoxfan]

It's actually been statistically proven that RISP splits are generally impossible to predict from year to year. There are a select few players who actually are better with runners on base (Jose Valentin was one of those guys), and a select few who are worse (can't think of anyone specifically right now) but overall it varies from year to year. In 2005, Pierzynski hit .257, and put up the following splits...

 

.236/.305/.425/.730 with RISP (118 PAs)

.228/.267/.365/.632 with no one on base (277 PAs)

.294/.361/.492/.853 with runners on base (220 PAs)

 

This means that, for whatever reason, Pierzynski was fantastic at getting base hits when there was a runner on first base.

 

If you look at his 2006 season, he hit .290 in all of those situations.

In 2007, he couldn't hit with men on base period, but hit just fine with no one on.

 

Do you see a pattern in any of this? Because I don't.

 

It's foolish to look at Pierzynski's numbers with RISP and use that as a reason for him not hitting 5th. If you want to say someone else is better suited for the role, that's fine. It's not because they can hit better with RISP and Pierzynski can't, because you just flat out cannot predict that from year to year.

 

[Princess Dye]

It comes down to the debate about 'clutchness'... is it a real thing? 670 the Score, despite their shortcomings, do a good job of challenging people with this. i.e. their scenario from a few weeks ago: "Would you want Joe Mauer, who has never been to a World Series, with the last at-bat in a WS Game 7? Or Craig Counsell, who has done it?"

 

Mauer, obviously. Because if there is such a thing as a 'clutch guy'-- it doesnt even matter. Because in the clutch, every team should want its best hitter, ideally, to be at the plate.

 

And of course many people will disagree with this. But is clutchness a thing proven to actually exist? I dont believe it has been. There have been guys who are surprisingly good in clutch situations, but there's a difference between that and saying that 'clutchness' is a trait that really exists and repeats over and over.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Princess Dye

[Soxfest]

5th is too high 6th or 7th more like it!

[Melissa1334]

It comes down to the debate about 'clutchness'... is it a real thing? 670 the Score, despite their shortcomings, do a good job of challenging people with this. i.e. their scenario from a few weeks ago: "Would you want Joe Mauer, who has never been to a World Series, with the last at-bat in a WS Game 7? Or Craig Counsell, who has done it?"

 

Mauer, obviously. Because if there is such a thing as a 'clutch guy'-- it doesnt even matter. Because in the clutch, every team should want its best hitter, ideally, to be at the plate.

 

And of course many people will disagree with this. But is clutchness a thing proven to actually exist? I dont believe it has been. There have been guys who are surprisingly good in clutch situations, but there's a difference between that and saying that 'clutchness' is a trait that really exists and repeats over and over.

well counsell is kind of a bad example. how about mauer over jeter ?

[Princess Dye]

well counsell is kind of a bad example. how about mauer over jeter ?

 

But if that example is thought to be more suitable to you, yr still believing that there's a thing called clutchness. It can be any example of a proven Game 7 clutch guy versus a guy who is better but has not been there.

[Balta1701]

Here's the big problem.

 

Guys in the everyday starting lineup you might think would put up an .800 OPS or better.

 

Beckham

Konerko

Rios

Quentin (1.000? Come on baby).

Maybe throw Jones, Ramirez onto there if Jones stays healthy and if Ramirez remembers what a curve ball is before June.

 

Guys who's best OPS in the last few years hangs out around .750-.760

Pierzynski

Teahen

Pierre

Kotsay

 

All of the pop in this lineup is RH.

 

If Teahen can't push himself towards .800, I see no other option other than Pierzynski, but that's the reason some of us wanted a better LH bat brought in.

[ThunderBolt]

In a perfect world i'd do

Rios

Beckham

Q

Konerko

Jones

Teahen

Ramirez

A.J

Pierre

Not going to happen. So, i figure AJ hitting 5th is better then 2nd.

[joeynach]

He's a .284 hitter with RISP for his career so he isnt that bad at all.

 

 

I do prefer him hitting 6th however.

 

I prefer AJ batting 6th as well. I think our 5th batter should probably be Rios if he returns to normal hitting form. Rios should be able to provide more power (around 25 or so) as well as opportunities for extra base hits and gap shots. For the sake for righty lefty combo I think it would go

 

Pierre/Beckham/CQ/Konerko/Rios/AJ/Jones/Tehean/Alexi

 

[elrockinMT]

He hit like .300 last year and only knocked in 49 in 504 ABs. That's what I think of it.

 

 

He's a contact man and can get on base

[knightni]

Until they get a better lefty power bat, I'm not against it. A.J.'s always been a solid guy when it comes to hitting for average.

[SoxAce]

I prefer AJ batting 6th as well. I think our 5th batter should probably be Rios if he returns to normal hitting form. Rios should be able to provide more power (around 25 or so) as well as opportunities for extra base hits and gap shots. For the sake for righty lefty combo I think it would go

 

Pierre/Beckham/CQ/Konerko/Rios/AJ/Jones/Tehean/Alexi

 

That would be my lineup as well. Hopefully Teahen rakes so he can bat 6th and put the OBP challenged (though solid average) A.J. to the 8th spot. This is assuming too that Jones takes over full time at DH. With Kotsay, I'm sure Ozzie would tweak the lower half a bit. I also wonder what happened with Ozzie's supposed plan to bat Beckham lower as well. I don't think I've seen him bat lower all spring, minus the days off with Vizquel hitting at the 2 spot.

[chw42]

I'd like neither.

[chw42]

In a perfect world i'd do

Rios

Beckham

Q

Konerko

Jones

Teahen

Ramirez

A.J

Pierre

Not going to happen. So, i figure AJ hitting 5th is better then 2nd.

 

The problem with this is that Rios' OBP won't be that much higher than Pierre's. Both are similar in terms of speed (considering that Pierre will get CS more). You'd be wasting Rios' .450 SLG in the leadoff spot when we need that in the 5th or 6th hole.

Edited March 18, 2010 by chw42

[Heads22]

It comes down to the debate about 'clutchness'... is it a real thing? 670 the Score, despite their shortcomings, do a good job of challenging people with this. i.e. their scenario from a few weeks ago: "Would you want Joe Mauer, who has never been to a World Series, with the last at-bat in a WS Game 7? Or Craig Counsell, who has done it?"

 

Mauer, obviously. Because if there is such a thing as a 'clutch guy'-- it doesnt even matter. Because in the clutch, every team should want its best hitter, ideally, to be at the plate.

 

And of course many people will disagree with this. But is clutchness a thing proven to actually exist? I dont believe it has been. There have been guys who are surprisingly good in clutch situations, but there's a difference between that and saying that 'clutchness' is a trait that really exists and repeats over and over.

 

Besides, you'd want Crede.

[joeynach]

The problem with this is that Rios' OBP won't be that much higher than Pierre's. Both are similar in terms of speed (considering that Pierre will get CS more). You'd be wasting Rios' .450 SLG in the leadoff spot when we need that in the 5th or 6th hole.

 

The Rios acquisition just looks like he was targeted to be the #5 hitter. A guy thats got mid 20 HR pop, can drive in 85+ runs, hit for extra base hits, and when doing performing normally will hit .280-.285. That seems like a perfect hitter behind CQ and Konerko to me to provide consistent run production. The key word is consistent, something that hes got trouble with.