Mr. Wedmesday Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I've always seen Teahen as mediocre talent who happened to have great games against the Sox. I never like trades for "Sox-killers", as they tend to keep on killing the Sox by under-performing. I'm not worried about his ST performance--I'm worried that even if he matches his career bests this season he will still be nothing more than OK. Rios has been a major disappointment, but if he can even approach his career stats he will be a huge asset for this club. Teahen doesn't have the same kind of upside. Having said that, we paid too much for both of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 We paid too much for Teahen? I hope you didn't mean in terms of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Peavy got lit up today, gets me thinking about how nice it would be to have ol' CR/AP back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I'm not a big Teahen guy, but I don't care how he hits in ST. I guess I'll grow impatient fast if he has a horrific April. I just hope he cuts down on his Ks this year and draws more walks somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (11and1 @ Mar 22, 2010 -> 09:55 PM) I've always seen Teahen as mediocre talent who happened to have great games against the Sox. I never like trades for "Sox-killers", as they tend to keep on killing the Sox by under-performing. I'm not worried about his ST performance--I'm worried that even if he matches his career bests this season he will still be nothing more than OK. Rios has been a major disappointment, but if he can even approach his career stats he will be a huge asset for this club. Teahen doesn't have the same kind of upside. Having said that, we paid too much for both of them... Not if they play to their reasonable capabilities. They will earn their salaries if that's the case. QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 22, 2010 -> 11:43 PM) Peavy got lit up today, gets me thinking about how nice it would be to have ol' CR/AP back I'm assuming you don't really mean that. By the way, Peavy got 'lit up" because he was throwing fastballs almost exclusively today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 12:43 AM) Peavy got lit up today, gets me thinking about how nice it would be to have ol' CR/AP back Oh, I hope that's sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 22, 2010 -> 11:43 PM) Peavy got lit up today, gets me thinking about how nice it would be to have ol' CR/AP back Congrats on winning the premature panic award for 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 20, 2010 -> 09:30 PM) that is a huge stretch. No it's not ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (11and1 @ Mar 22, 2010 -> 10:55 PM) I've always seen Teahen as mediocre talent who happened to have great games against the Sox. Teahen doesn't have the same kind of upside. Having said that, we paid too much for both of them... The thing is Mark Teahen isn’t a mediocre talent. Mark Teahen is a great talent who has played mediocre at the major league level. He’s given brief flashes of potential for the Royals, but he was in a terrible situation there. Now, he’s in an organization that not only believes in him and is willing to give him a chance, but has shown a commitment to this faith by giving him a three-year deal. White Sox fans should be willing to do the same. Teahen has the kind of upside that Chris Getz doesn't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 10:22 AM) The thing is Mark Teahen isn’t a mediocre talent. Mark Teahen is a great talent who has played mediocre at the major league level. He’s given brief flashes of potential for the Royals, but he was in a terrible situation there. Now, he’s in an organization that not only believes in him and is willing to give him a chance, but has shown a commitment to this faith by giving him a three-year deal. White Sox fans should be willing to do the same. Teahen has the kind of upside that Chris Getz doesn't have. At one point he was the next Jason Giambi, of course the club that supposedly believed this ended up trading him for a 30 year old Octavio Dotel so who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 11:33 AM) At one point he was the next Jason Giambi, of course the club that supposedly believed this ended up trading him for a 30 year old Octavio Dotel so who knows. This was back when Eric Chavez looked like he might be relevant for another decade, and when the A’s would insert pitchers into the Closer’s spot to inflate their value and then trade them for high-upside prospects the year after. I imagine both these factors and the expected rewards made Teahen irrelevant to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 10:45 AM) This was back when Eric Chavez looked like he might be relevant for another decade, and when the A’s would insert pitchers into the Closer’s spot to inflate their value and then trade them for high-upside prospects the year after. I imagine both these factors and the expected rewards made Teahen irrelevant to them. I don't see how the next Jason Giambi could be irrelevant to anyone, you can always find a spot for a guy like that. The A's also did no such thing with their closers, their plan was to acquire them in their final year before free agency then let them walk and pocket the compensation picks, much like they do with many of their stars. In 2002 alone they had 6 compensation picks 2 of which were for Jason Isringhausen (Ben Fritz, Stephen Obenchain), they got Swisher, Blanton and Teahen in exchange for Giambi and Damon via comp picks that year. The only closer that was traded for spects was Billy Taylor for Jason Isringhausen in 1999. (and Izzy already had 300+ IP in the majors when he was dealt for so he wasn't really a prospect) Traded for Isringhausen, let him walk and took the picks. Traded for Koch, traded him for Foulke after a year, let Foulke walk and took the picks. (the key was to keep the closers for only a year before they broke down due to overuse) Traded for Dotel with 2 years left until free agency and shockingly he broke down early into his 2nd year, let him walk in free agency and got nothing in return Things changed when beane broke his own rule and took Huston Street in the first round. Street was eventually traded for a veteran hitter in his final year before free agency who was eventually flipped for a high upside spect who in return was flipped shortly after for another high upside spect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 12:05 PM) I don't see how the next Jason Giambi could be irrelevant to anyone, you can always find a spot for a guy like that. The only closer that was traded for spects was Billy Taylor for Jason Isringhausen in 1999. (and Izzy already had 300+ IP in the majors when he was dealt for so he wasn't really a prospect) Traded for Isringhausen, let him walk and took the picks. Traded for Koch, traded him for Foulke after a year, let Foulke walk and took the picks. (the key was to keep the closers for only a year before they broke down due to overuse) Traded for Dotel with 2 years left until free agency and shockingly he broke down early into his 2nd year, let him walk in free agency and got nothing in return Things changed when beane broke his own rule and took Huston Street in the first round. Street was eventually traded for a veteran hitter in his final year before free agency who was eventually flipped for a high upside spect who in return was flipped shortly after for another high upside spect. This was exactly what i meant. They got closers, who they inflated like stocks, and then traded for other assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wedmesday Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 10:22 AM) The thing is Mark Teahen isn’t a mediocre talent. Mark Teahen is a great talent who has played mediocre at the major league level. OK, so Teahen is a great minor league talent. Go Charlotte! Since I'm only concerned with how he can help the White Sox win in 2010, and since we're discussing his struggles as a member of the Sox, my original observation stands: He will need a career year at the major league level to become an average major league player. That's also why I think we paid too much. As for his upside, I was comparing it to Alex Rios, not Chris Getz. Like Teahen's minor league greatness, how Getz performs is not relevant-- unless we are playing the Royals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (11and1 @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 03:01 PM) OK, so Teahen is a great minor league talent. Go Charlotte! Since I'm only concerned with how he can help the White Sox win in 2010, and since we're discussing his struggles as a member of the Sox, my original observation stands: He will need a career year at the major league level to become an average major league player. That's also why I think we paid too much. As for his upside, I was comparing it to Alex Rios, not Chris Getz. Like Teahen's minor league greatness, how Getz performs is not relevant-- unless we are playing the Royals. Its relevant because you said we overpaid. You think that Getz and Fields was overpaying for Teahen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (11and1 @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 04:01 PM) OK, so Teahen is a great minor league talent. Go Charlotte! Since I'm only concerned with how he can help the White Sox win in 2010, and since we're discussing his struggles as a member of the Sox, my original observation stands: He will need a career year at the major league level to become an average major league player. That's also why I think we paid too much. As for his upside, I was comparing it to Alex Rios, not Chris Getz. Like Teahen's minor league greatness, how Getz performs is not relevant-- unless we are playing the Royals. Paid too much as in Chris Getz and Josh Fields are so immensely more valuable? And yes, Getz's production would be relevant if you are comparing the "cost" of what it took to obtain Teahen. Every year here, no matter what, like clockwork, someone becomes demonized/idolized based off of 30 ST at bats. Love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 03:06 PM) Its relevant because you said we overpaid. You think that Getz and Fields was overpaying for Teahen? I would agree if he meant the contract extension given to Teahen was overpaying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (11and1 @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 03:01 PM) OK, so Teahen is a great minor league talent. Go Charlotte! Since I'm only concerned with how he can help the White Sox win in 2010, and since we're discussing his struggles as a member of the Sox, my original observation stands: He will need a career year at the major league level to become an average major league player. That's also why I think we paid too much. As for his upside, I was comparing it to Alex Rios, not Chris Getz. Like Teahen's minor league greatness, how Getz performs is not relevant-- unless we are playing the Royals. Over the past 3 seasons Teahen has averaged a .270/.330/.407/.737 line. Last year the average AL 3B hit .269/.338/.423/.762, I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility for Mark in 2010, that'd be a pretty decent projection for him IMO. I'm worried about his defense more than anything. And if he puts up career best numbers in 2010 he'll be one of our best hitters considering he'd have to top the .290/.357/.517/.874 line he posted in 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (11and1 @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 04:01 PM) Getz performs is not relevant-- unless we are playing the Royals. It's entirely relevant. Your premise was that we overpaid for Mark Teahen, whom you called a mediocre talent. Well, we paid Chris Getz and Josh Fields. One of whom (Getz) is the very definition of mediocre talent, and the other guy is burdened by an overwhelming inability to hit a fastball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 The giambi comparison was an unfair and unrealistic (yes, at the time even) one to live up to for teahan... especially at the time. Giambi was nothing short of ridiculous for a 3-4 year stretch, his last .1000 ops+ year was in 2002, the year teahan was drafted. Nothing shocks me anymore with the athletics. Mainly they are all about the hype, and having people buy into the unwarranted hype. Now don't get me wrong they produce major league talent, but rarely, if ever (past decade), do they end up panning out to the level that they were supposed to reach. The athletics organization aggravates me to no end, and it does not help that wite would suck off billy beane if given the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeFabregas Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (knightni @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 03:40 AM) Oh, I hope that's sarcasm. As long as people are over-reacting to spring stats--Aaron Poreda has 7 walks and 3 strikeouts in 2.1 innings this spring. Clayton Richard's WHIP is hovering around 2. Russell has decent numbers (diamond in the rough!). I already forgot Dexter Carter's name. Yayyy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (qwerty @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 05:24 PM) The giambi comparison was an unfair and unrealistic (yes, at the time even) one to live up to for teahan... especially at the time. Giambi was nothing short of ridiculous for a 3-4 year stretch, his last .1000 ops+ year was in 2002, the year teahan was drafted. Nothing shocks me anymore with the athletics. Mainly they are all about the hype, and having people buy into the unwarranted hype. Now don't get me wrong they produce major league talent, but rarely, if ever (past decade), do they end up panning out to the level that they were supposed to reach. The athletics organization aggravates me to no end, and it does not help that wite would suck off billy beane if given the chance. I think the Giambi comparison was unfair because it failed to factor in the part that the addition of steroids played in Giambi's development. According to his testimony Giambi started taking roids around 2000-2001. Prior to this time period, he averaged around 26 homeruns and 74 RBI's. This is notable becasue this statline seems well within Teahen's reach. I think Mark Teahen really could be the the kind of player Jason Giambi was, he has a similiar build, and similiar numbers, the important factor here is that it's Jason Giambi before the roids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 05:49 PM) According to his testimony Giambi started taking roids around 2000-2001. I don't believe this for a millisecond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 06:02 PM) I don't believe this for a millisecond. Agreed, I'd pin it around late 1996-98. You can tell just by looking at pictures of the guy. Edited March 23, 2010 by Thunderbolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 06:05 PM) Agreed, I'd pin it around late 1998-99. You can tell just by looking at pictures of the guy. I'd bet he started even before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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