Teahen's struggles...

[qwerty]

I think the Giambi comparison was unfair because it failed to factor in the part that the addition of steroids played in Giambi's development. According to his testimony Giambi started taking roids around 2000-2001. Prior to this time period, he averaged around 26 homeruns and 74 RBI's. This is notable becasue this statline seems well within Teahen's reach. I think Mark Teahen really could be the the kind of player Jason Giambi was, he has a similiar build, and similiar numbers, the important factor here is that it's Jason Giambi before the roids.

 

If teahen can put up a 132 wRC+(1996-1999 supposed pre giambi steroid use) i would be stoked. I can see that being his high side for a fluke year, but to do it on a consistent basis, i'm not convinced, as nothing suggests such. Teahen pretty much is what he is, a below average hitter who had the ability to put up a couple slightly above average seasons here and there.

 

I don't believe this for a millisecond.

 

I agree, though it is of course a possibility. Everyone has to start at some point. Even barry bonds.

[witesoxfan]

The giambi comparison was an unfair and unrealistic (yes, at the time even) one to live up to for teahan... especially at the time. Giambi was nothing short of ridiculous for a 3-4 year stretch, his last .1000 ops+ year was in 2002, the year teahan was drafted.

 

Nothing shocks me anymore with the athletics. Mainly they are all about the hype, and having people buy into the unwarranted hype. Now don't get me wrong they produce major league talent, but rarely, if ever (past decade), do they end up panning out to the level that they were supposed to reach. The athletics organization aggravates me to no end, and it does not help that wite would suck off billy beane if given the chance.

 

He's the best in the game at getting value in trades, whether it's actual prospects or pick compensation (looking at the return he got for Dan Haren is still amazing, even knowing how good Haren has been for the DBacks). However, he's made more than his fair share of mistakes, and, in hindsight, trading for Matt Holliday was one of those. He acquired Holliday in hopes that his addition would help boost the offense into contention, and if not, then he'd either trade him or get picks. He accomplished that, but in the process lost Huston Street, who is still a great reliever, and Carlos Gonzalez, who, if nothing else, looks like he's going to be an absolute monster against RHP and could potentially be a very good full-time starter too (.800 OPS against LHP last year, though it was only 68 PA's and he struck out 1/4 of the time he faced them). That trade actually set them back by 2 years at the very least, and it could be more too.

 

I'd say "we'll see how his plan to go with a defense-oriented team will play out," but it already has been played out in Tampa and Seattle. Tampa, in 2008, actually had a couple of good offensive players in Longoria and Pena and had a good lineup in general, and Seattle last year had the same two good hitters, but had no other offensive depth to speak of. Oakland does not have a good offense, and will either need to get big years out of a few of their hitters, or do what they can to get Gonzalez or a similar type of bat into their lineup, because it will likely leave them around .500, give or take, otherwise.

[elrockinMT]

I'd bet he started even before that.

 

 

Babe Ruth had the best idea. Be drunk all the time. Wonder what the guy could have done sober

[joeynach]

I think the Giambi comparison was unfair because it failed to factor in the part that the addition of steroids played in Giambi's development. According to his testimony Giambi started taking roids around 2000-2001. Prior to this time period, he averaged around 26 homeruns and 74 RBI's. This is notable becasue this statline seems well within Teahen's reach. I think Mark Teahen really could be the the kind of player Jason Giambi was, he has a similiar build, and similiar numbers, the important factor here is that it's Jason Giambi before the roids.

 

Listen at the end of the day the white sox are going to be similar offensive production from Teahen as they did from Crede. So in terms of production that the team is used to getting from their 3B their wont be that much difference, expect for defense of course.

 

Crede 162 game average: .254/.304/.444/.748............26 HR, 29 2B, 86 RBI........Salary: $5M+ per year

Teahen 162 game average: .269/.331/.419/.749............14 HR, 35 2B, 70 RBI........Salary: $4.6M per year (2010-2012 avg)

 

In fact when you break this down, offensively they are almost the same in terms of production. When all is said and done their OPS is identical. What crede lacks in batting average and OPB he makes up for in HR and RBI, and what Teahen lacks in power he makes up for with better BA, OBP, and thus doubles. Of course all things being equal you would rather have Crede because of the defense, but looking at offense alone I would consider his contribution to the offense to be be either the same as Crede's or slightly better since Tehean does bring some speed (averages 10 SB per year), and his place in the lineup is more in-tune with his higher OBP and doubles rate.

 

P.S. Oh and lets not forget to mention Teahen is not a looming injury every time he takes the field.

Edited March 24, 2010 by joeynach

[ScottyDo]

Listen at the end of the day the white sox are going to be similar offensive production from Teahen as they did from Crede. So in terms of production that the team is used to getting from their 3B their wont be that much difference, expect for defense of course.

 

Crede 162 game average: .254/.304/.444/.748............26 HR, 29 2B, 86 RBI........Salary: $5M+ per year

Teahen 162 game average: .269/.331/.419/.749............14 HR, 35 2B, 70 RBI........Salary: $4.6M per year (2010-2012 avg)

 

In fact when you break this down, offensively they are almost the same in terms of production. When all is said and done their OPS is identical. What crede lacks in batting average and OPB he makes up for in HR and RBI, and what Teahen lacks in power he makes up for with better BA, OBP, and thus doubles. Of course all things being equal you would rather have Crede because of the defense, but looking at offense alone I would consider his contribution to the offense to be be either the same as Crede's or slightly better since Tehean does bring some speed (averages 10 SB per year), and his place in the lineup is more in-tune with his higher OBP and doubles rate.

 

P.S. Oh and lets not forget to mention Teahen is not a looming injury every time he takes the field.

Well, Crede played in the Cell almost all his career whereas Teahen played in Kauffman. I'm too lazy to look up OPS+ (a park-adjusted stat, yes?). Anybody got that offhand?

[Dick Allen]

Listen at the end of the day the white sox are going to be similar offensive production from Teahen as they did from Crede. So in terms of production that the team is used to getting from their 3B their wont be that much difference, expect for defense of course.

 

Crede 162 game average: .254/.304/.444/.748............26 HR, 29 2B, 86 RBI........Salary: $5M+ per year

Teahen 162 game average: .269/.331/.419/.749............14 HR, 35 2B, 70 RBI........Salary: $4.6M per year (2010-2012 avg)

 

In fact when you break this down, offensively they are almost the same in terms of production. When all is said and done their OPS is identical. What crede lacks in batting average and OPB he makes up for in HR and RBI, and what Teahen lacks in power he makes up for with better BA, OBP, and thus doubles. Of course all things being equal you would rather have Crede because of the defense, but looking at offense alone I would consider his contribution to the offense to be be either the same as Crede's or slightly better since Tehean does bring some speed (averages 10 SB per year), and his place in the lineup is more in-tune with his higher OBP and doubles rate.

 

P.S. Oh and lets not forget to mention Teahen is not a looming injury every time he takes the field.

Crede was pretty banged up for the most part when determining his averages, and throw out 2006 and the 2005 playoffs, even with his outstanding defense, he was a Soxtalk whipping boy. If Teahan is similar offensively, its pretty much a given he's nowhere close defensively, he's not going to be a very popular guy around here. Maybe he shows the ability most scouts thought he had this year. It will be interesting to see how he does with a little more attention on him in a bigger city with more media, a higher profile team, etc. playing in games that really matter beginning opening day. Face it, in KC, the season was over before it started. Who cares what he does in spring training, as long as it doesn't screw with his head to begin the season. After seeing what I've seen over and over, the Cactus and Grapefruit League All Star Teams over the years have very little resemblance to All Star teams in July and even less resemblance to Silver Slugger winners and other award winners at the end of the year.

[joeynach]

Well, Crede played in the Cell almost all his career whereas Teahen played in Kauffman. I'm too lazy to look up OPS+ (a park-adjusted stat, yes?). Anybody got that offhand?

 

Is that something u get from the Bill James handbook.

[joeynach]

Crede was pretty banged up for the most part when determining his averages, and throw out 2006 and the 2005 playoffs, even with his outstanding defense, he was a Soxtalk whipping boy. If Teahan is similar offensively, its pretty much a given he's nowhere close defensively, he's not going to be a very popular guy around here. Maybe he shows the ability most scouts thought he had this year. It will be interesting to see how he does with a little more attention on him in a bigger city with more media, a higher profile team, etc. playing in games that really matter beginning opening day. Face it, in KC, the season was over before it started. Who cares what he does in spring training, as long as it doesn't screw with his head to begin the season. After seeing what I've seen over and over, the Cactus and Grapefruit League All Star Teams over the years have very little resemblance to All Star teams in July and even less resemblance to Silver Slugger winners and other award winners at the end of the year.

 

I understand what u are trying to say, but to me if you can play you can play. I dont necessarily buy into all those factors. If Teahen's got game then hes got game and it will show up at any level any day of the week in any city...period. And I hope he does.

[Kalapse]

Is that something u get from the Bill James handbook.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/credejo01.shtml

 

9th column from the right. Remember: baseball-reference.com is your best baseball friend

[Mr. Wedmesday]

I would agree if he meant the contract extension given to Teahen was overpaying.

 

 

It was indeed the extension we gave him to which I was referring.

 

 

[chisoxfan09]

ST or not, the Sox have been mired in major offensive suckage the last 2 games. At least Teahen got 1 of the four hits. Sorry the run scored was un-earned and I can't put those nightmare lack of effort/offense 10 shutouts out of my head from last year. Especially to AAA rejects.

[Kalapse]

Crede was pretty banged up for the most part when determining his averages

If you only count the 4 years in which Crede played close to a full season ('03-'06) and Teahen's last 3 years (taking out his seemingly anomalous '06 campaign) they have the exact same OPS+ (95). Of course then I'm counting Crede's '06 performance which was far and away his best offensive season so I'm not really being fair to Mark, so Crede's '03-'05 OPS+ is 90 and Teahen's '07-'09 OPS+ is 95. So in conclusion; I have no idea.

[Kalapse]

ST or not, the Sox have been mired in major offensive suckage the last 2 games. At least Teahen got 1 of the four hits. Sorry the run scored was un-earned and I can't put those nightmare lack of effort/offense 10 shutouts out of my head from last year. Especially to AAA rejects.

Didn't the regulars score 3 runs off Gil Meche in 3 innings yesterday before being pulled for minor leaguers in the 6th?

[Mr. Wedmesday]

Paid too much as in Chris Getz and Josh Fields are so immensely more valuable? And yes, Getz's production would be relevant if you are comparing the "cost" of what it took to obtain Teahen.

 

Every year here, no matter what, like clockwork, someone becomes demonized/idolized based off of 30 ST at bats. Love it.

 

 

As I said elsewhere, I was referring to the extension Teahen received after the trade.

 

Don't see how my comments on Teahen's disappointing spring, nor my response to the assertion that he's a great "minor league" player, in any way "demonizes" him.

 

All I said was I think he's been mediocre as a major league player.

 

Maybe that makes him a mediocre demon....bottom line is he needs to be at least solid for this team to succeed.

No one will be happier than me if he lights it up starting April 5th.

[Mr. Wedmesday]

ST or not, the Sox have been mired in major offensive suckage the last 2 games. At least Teahen got 1 of the four hits. Sorry the run scored was un-earned and I can't put those nightmare lack of effort/offense 10 shutouts out of my head from last year. Especially to AAA rejects.

^^^^

 

+1.

[chisoxfan09]

Didn't the regulars score 3 runs off Gil Meche in 3 innings yesterday before being pulled for minor leaguers in the 6th?

 

OK maybe in panic mode but they blew quite a few opportunities as well.

[lostfan]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/credejo01.shtml

 

9th column from the right. Remember: baseball-reference.com is your best baseball friend

B-R is awesome

[lostfan]

Oh and I am fairly confident the poster with the earlier comment about Peavy getting lit up and wanting CR/AP back was being sarcastic/facetious.

[Kalapse]

Oh and I am fairly confident the poster with the earlier comment about Peavy getting lit up and wanting CR/AP back was being sarcastic/facetious.

He was.

[joeynach]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/credejo01.shtml

 

9th column from the right. Remember: baseball-reference.com is your best baseball friend

 

True dat love that site. Especially the player comparisons.

[jenksycat]

He was.

 

I agree

[Dick Allen]

If you only count the 4 years in which Crede played close to a full season ('03-'06) and Teahen's last 3 years (taking out his seemingly anomalous '06 campaign) they have the exact same OPS+ (95). Of course then I'm counting Crede's '06 performance which was far and away his best offensive season so I'm not really being fair to Mark, so Crede's '03-'05 OPS+ is 90 and Teahen's '07-'09 OPS+ is 95. So in conclusion; I have no idea.

Most couldn't wait for Crede to be replaced by Josh Fields, who ironically was part of the package for Teahen, and a guy no one even mentions when they talk about that trade. If Teahen plays like he played at KC, he will not be very popular.

[Balta1701]

2/4 with a HR today for Mark.

[Balta1701]

Ha! Jimmy Johns is a sponsor now! YAY!

[greg775]

Teahen will be one of the more interesting stories of the season. He really started to suck in KC.

The ol change of scenery thing; will he reach greatest with the Sox or have major suckage?

Can't wait to get it going to see how MT, Rios, Jones and Omar fare as Sox. Mentally I'm giving Rios a clean slate throwing out last year completely.

Edited March 24, 2010 by greg775