NorthSideSox72 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 10:20 AM) This is getting underplayed here but Ozzie also wants to LEADOFF Vizquel against LHP's. IF this true our offense is going to be much worse then we thought, and hell, i already don't think very much of it. Yeah that's just all kinds of stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) There have been times I have supported failure for the purpose of the greater good (ie, losing games in 2007 for a higher draft pick). If having Guillen's skewed logic of favorable pitcher/hitter matchups fails miserably, but it means he learns from it (mainly, how to read simple splits), I'll support a White Sox loss. I realize there's no guarantee this happens, but embarrassment may be warranted to help our manager understand what makes the most sense for his team. One of the worst scenarios that can happen this year is if some combination of Vizquel, Kotsay, Jones, Pierre are injured, and we just delay making a decision on them for another season. I want to exit 2010 knowing exactly where we stand with those players, with absolutely no excuses to prevent us from either retaining them or moving on. Edited March 25, 2010 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 man...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I thought the DH was our wise moment NOT GOD DAMN EVERYTHINGAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Do you guys realize that that article claims we fielded 126 different lineups in 162 games Could that really be true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 11:20 AM) Do you guys realize that that article claims we fielded 126 different lineups in 162 games Could that really be true? Yes, any slight change to the batting order counts as a new one and 21 different players saw the field for the Sox last season. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CH...ng-orders.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 12:20 PM) Do you guys realize that that article claims we fielded 126 different lineups in 162 games Could that really be true? What I think is worth noting is...I'm pretty sure that's not unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) Does every SP make it a new lineup, because we used over 10 last year. Plus NL games, so that number may be deceiving. Edited March 25, 2010 by Leonard Zelig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 11:33 AM) What I think is worth noting is...I'm pretty sure that's not unusual. Yankees: 107 Red Sox: 114 Twins: 131 Angels: 123 '05 Sox: 114 Yeah, I'm not too worried about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 10:32 AM) Yeah that's just all kinds of stupid. any lineup that starts vizquel or kotsay for any reason other than resting someone is really stupid neither one of these guys can hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 11:51 AM) any lineup that starts vizquel or kotsay for any reason other than resting someone is really stupid neither one of these guys can hit I think that's an overstatement w/r/t Kotsay. He's absoutely not a 3-hole hitter, or even a starter - but he's not incapable with the bat at a Vizquel level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 01:00 PM) I think that's an overstatement w/r/t Kotsay. He's absoutely not a 3-hole hitter, or even a starter - but he's not incapable with the bat at a Vizquel level. If nothing else, at least with Kotsay you can say "He's performed well in the bat during this Spring Training" or "He had a good hot streak to end the year last year with the bat". You can tell me how little those mean all you want...but you can't even say those about Vizquel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I fully believe Vizquel will be a valuable member of the White Sox. I think the problem within lies in the fact that he may be in the lineup as a DH and the fact that he has never DH'ed a game in his entire career. Nothing against the hitter Vizquel was 10 years ago or so - he was solid but not spectacular - but he's nothing more than a washed up mediocre singles hitter at this point in his career. If Omar Vizquel DH's one game, it will be a very sad day for all of baseball. He should be used as a backup infielder and as an injury replacement. Even if it's not desired, having Vizquel's glove in the field for 4-10 days wouldn't be the end of the world and it would be a hell of a lot better than having Nix play SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Ozzie can't be this f***in stupid, can he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 We should have known this would happen. Give him one awful offensive player, he'll play everyday. We took that to mean that he had a quota of one awful offensive position in a lineup per year. We didn't realize that if we gave him four he would put them at four positions in a day AHHHHH life is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 02:02 PM) Ozzie can't be this f***in stupid, can he? I’m going to treat that as rhetorical. I love Ozzie to death, but he’s incredibly impulsive. Too many of these impulses are hurting this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Well, he DID bat this guy in the DH spot for 135 games in 2005: vs RHP .246 .317 .441 .757 vs LHP .265 .295 .419 .714 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 01:19 PM) Well, he DID bat this guy in the DH spot for 135 games in 2005: vs RHP .246 .317 .441 .757 vs LHP .265 .295 .419 .714 I'd bet that Jones/Kotsay do better than that this year. Probably not a LOT better unless Jones is comeback player of the year, but, still better than what looks like a more or less .250/.310/.430/.740 line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 01:21 PM) I'd bet that Jones/Kotsay do better than that this year. Probably not a LOT better unless Jones is comeback player of the year, but, still better than what looks like a more or less .250/.310/.430/.740 line. And as a bonus, I think they both believe in Dinosaurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 12:27 AM) Any lineup that has Kotsay hitting 3rd and Quentin not hitting 3rd is flawed. This has more to due with what side of the plate Kotsay bats with, and Ozzies obsession with LRLRLRLR lineups. The idea that Ozzie thinking about trotting out Vizquel against lefties as the primary leadoff hitter is also all sorts of awesome. That sexy .305 OBP against lefties over the last few years should make the Erstad leadoff fiasco look like a juggernaut of offense. Its almost like he picks this crap randomly out of a hat or something. If this was really the case, then why the hell doesn't he hit Teahen third? Plus, does Ozzie know that Quentin absolutely destroys right handed pitching? For the most part, Q's struggles last year were against left handed pitchers, where he only hit .213 with a .383 SLG. Against right handers, he hit a bit better and his SLG was near .500. In the year before, it didn't even matter, but Q was still stronger against righties. Seriously, somebody get Ozzie some splits. Edited March 25, 2010 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) I looked up Kotsay's numbers as a #3 hitter. .284/.324/.403/.727 in 264 games. And I think most of that was earlier in his career, when he was actually a decent player. Edited March 25, 2010 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 The venom spewed during game threads should be very entertaining. Just think of the possibilities when Kotsay , Jones, Vizquel , Pierre, and Linebrink are all in the same game ! Going in game threads is risky business. There's where you say impulsive stuff that gets you branded an idiot. I'm gonna try to stay out of them this year but I would guess the temptation will be too big and I'll join the fray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I love gamethreads, some of my best friends are gamethreads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 02:22 PM) I love gamethreads, some of my best friends are gamethreads. Ohrly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 09:13 AM) This gets at the one area where, to me, there is simply zero argument of any kind that can be made to support Ozzie. He does L/R match-ups because he assumes all players/pitchers fit that mold, when some do not. There is no good logical reason to play Pierre more against righties than lefties - none. Ozzie is just not a stats guy, so he assumes R/L is everything. He's just plain 100% wrong on these cases, and it drives me batty that someone hasn't pulled him aside and taught him about this. All these other issues about where in the order guys hit, power vs OBP vs speed, how often you try to steal, etc. - I have opinions, we all do, but there are at least some sort of logical points that can be made from either side of the discussion. I dont even think that this has anything to do with being a stats guy or not, its just about knowing your players. Everyone knows Fields couldn't hit righties, everyone knows Linebrink cant get anybody out in the 2nd half of the season, and everyone should know Pierre hits righties and lefties equally well. And you know all that without looking at the stats, its just from being observant of the game and team over time. Thats what a manager is supposed to do, know his guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 01:35 PM) I fully believe Vizquel will be a valuable member of the White Sox. I think the problem within lies in the fact that he may be in the lineup as a DH and the fact that he has never DH'ed a game in his entire career. Nothing against the hitter Vizquel was 10 years ago or so - he was solid but not spectacular - but he's nothing more than a washed up mediocre singles hitter at this point in his career. If Omar Vizquel DH's one game, it will be a very sad day for all of baseball. He should be used as a backup infielder and as an injury replacement. Even if it's not desired, having Vizquel's glove in the field for 4-10 days wouldn't be the end of the world and it would be a hell of a lot better than having Nix play SS. Yeah exactly, hes a defensive replacement and IF back up only. Thats it. Edited March 25, 2010 by joeynach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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