Wood's 20 K's vs Buehrle's perfect game

[Jordan4life_2007]

http://www.312sports.com/component/content...wood-or-buehrle

 

Just came across this article from a few days ago. Pretty good read. All bias aside and I have to easily go with Wood's. I've seen that game 3 times since it happened and I come away more impressed each time. His curve that day was something to behold.

[Quin]

One game had 0 baserunners, so that is the one I go with.

 

And even though the perfect game had The Catch, that was not a good defensive team out there. Every time a ball got thrown to first, I saw Josh Fields life ending after dropping a ball.

[southsider2k5]

There have been something like 15 perfect games and one 20 strikeout game in baseball history. You can make a pretty good case for Wood.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

There have been something like 15 perfect games and one 20 strikeout game in baseball history. You can make a pretty good case for Wood.

 

18 perfectos, and 4 20-K games.

 

I go with Wood's though. I would rather throw a perfect game vs. striking out 20, but if we are comparing Buehrle's perfect game to Woods, I go with Woods. Wood only allowed 2 baserunners, and did not allow a run. Both resulted in a win. Buehrle allowed 2 less baserunners, but Wood struck out what, 12 more batters?

[Kalapse]

There have been something like 15 perfect games and one 20 strikeout game in baseball history. You can make a pretty good case for Wood.

Actually, there have been 5 20+ K games, 4 of them in 9 innings (the other was 16 IP), 2 by Clemens, 1 by Wood and 1 by Johnson.

 

Wood's outing was exponentially more impressive than Buehrle's. Not only did Wood K 20 in that game but the only baserunner came off a fairly routine groundball to third that Kevin Orie couldn't corral, it really should have been an error. Not only that but he had to go through Craig Biggio, Derek Bell, Moises Alou and Jeff Bagwell to get it done. It's arguably the most dominant performance in baseball history.

[Cali]

They were both pretty incredible... Wasn't Woods only hit giving up a questionable call? Like it could have been an error?

 

No doubt both guys were in complete control. Getting 20 of 27 outs by the strike out and not allowing one baserunner, both pretty equal on the scale of pitching dominance...

[Jordan4life_2007]

Actually, there have been 5 20+ K games, 4 of them in 9 innings (the other was 16 IP), 2 by Clemens, 1 by Wood and 1 by Johnson.

 

Wood's outing was exponentially more impressive than Buehrle's. Not only did Wood K 20 in that game but the only baserunner came off a fairly routine groundball to third that Kevin Orie couldn't corral, it really should have been an error. Not only that but he had to go through Craig Biggio, Derek Bell, Moises Alou and Jeff Bagwell to get it done. It's arguably the most dominant performance in baseball history.

 

He hit a batter too. Can't remember who.

 

They were both pretty incredible... Wasn't Woods only hit giving up a questionable call? Like it could have been an error?

 

No doubt both guys were in complete control. Getting 20 of 27 outs by the strike out and not allowing one baserunner, both pretty equal on the scale of pitching dominance...

 

I disagree. For a guy like Mark to throw a perfect game, so many things (like the Wise catch) have to fall in place. Wood was just blowing guys away one after the other.

[Kalapse]

He hit a batter too. Can't remember who.

Yeah, shockingly it was Biggio.

[Real]

What's more rare? Throwing a no-hitter AND perfect game, or a 20K game?

[GoSox05]

They replayed that Wood game on tv not to long ago. His stuff that day was insane.

 

I actually think Buehrle was more impressive in his no hit game than his perfect game.

[TitoMB345]

What about Mark's No Hitter + Mark's Perfect against Wood's 20 Ks?

[SoxAce]

Actually, there have been 5 20+ K games, 4 of them in 9 innings (the other was 16 IP), 2 by Clemens, 1 by Wood and 1 by Johnson.

 

Wood's outing was exponentially more impressive than Buehrle's. Not only did Wood K 20 in that game but the only baserunner came off a fairly routine groundball to third that Kevin Orie couldn't corral, it really should have been an error. Not only that but he had to go through Craig Biggio, Derek Bell, Moises Alou and Jeff Bagwell to get it done. It's arguably the most dominant performance in baseball history.

 

Yea Wood easily should have had a no-hitter. I was stunned that wasn't an error. I would still say Buehrle's perfect game was much more impressive though. It's a freaking perfect game for christ sake. If it wasn't for the catch, Buehrle actually had every other hitter not hit (or no ball was really hit hard at all) him well that whole game. TB's offense was one of the best as well. Someone mentioned Buehrle's no-hitter against Texas. That was impressive too with Texas' offense. (they had Tex at that time too) But Mark needed alot of help defensively that game.

Edited March 28, 2010 by SoxAce

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

What's more rare? Throwing a no-hitter AND perfect game, or a 20K game?

 

I think you mean throwing 2 no-hitters and a perfect game (since a perfect games counts as a no-hitter too).

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yea Wood easily should have had a perfect game if he didn't hit Biggio too. I was stunned that wasn't an error (to at least keep the no-hitter) but called a hit.

 

He hit a batter. Should have been a no-hitter though.

[Pants Rowland]

I really don't care one way or another, but why is it a strikeout is better than a groundout? As impressive as Wood was that day, he did allow 2 baserunners, one of which he hit. I have also heard from a Cub fan friend that was there that day that Orie's non-play was definitely a hit. I'm not saying that makes it less impressive than the perfecto, but I think we sometimes miss the bigger picture when it comes to smart soft tossing pitchers.

 

If a pitcher is fearless enough to throw it in a spot just attractive enough to swing at it, but off just enough that the hitter fails to square it up, is it any less impressive than a guy who can't be touched? Wood's outing may be more of a physical feat, but Buehrle's intelligence as a pitcher is what made him equally as unhittable (if not untouchable) that day and has him consistently throwing 200 innings every year. Wood's long time need to throw the ball through the catcher seriously curtailed what could have been an unbelievable career. So hats off to him for the 20 strikeouts, but remember, ground balls can be just as good and are more democratic, too.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Pants Rowland

[chw42]

Pfft, I struck out 21 guys with Peavy in a video game, it's so easy.

 

But if you try and pitch a perfect game...forget about it.

 

In all honesty though, Wood's game was more rare.

 

But the accomplishment of a perfect game is far more challenging than striking out 20 guys. There are so many more restrictions in a perfect game. You're not restricted by anything when you strike out a bunch of guys. You can give up a hit there, hit there, run here, run there. Nothing counts against you.

[SoxAce]

I really don't care one way or another, but why is it a strikeout is better than a groundout? As impressive as Wood was that day, he did allow 2 baserunners, one of which he hit. I have also heard from a Cub fan friend that was there that day that Orie's non-play was definitely a hit. I'm not saying that makes it less impressive than the perfecto, but I think we sometimes miss the bigger picture when it comes to smart soft tossing pitchers.

 

If a pitcher is fearless enough to throw it in a spot just attractive enough to swing at it, but off just enough that the hitter fails to square it up, is it any less impressive than a guy who can't be touched. Wood's outing may be more of a physical feat, but Buehrle's intelligence as a pitcher is what made him equally as unhittable (if not untouchable) that day and has him consistently throwing 200 innings every year.

 

It's just unbelievable and I agree with this 100%. Buehrle does not have no hit stuff at all like Wood did at that time or a Verlander, Clemens, Johnson, etc.. etc.. and the man has pitched 2 of them. (1 perfect game) I believe it was Olney or Meyer who wrote an article on Buehrle's perfect game/no hitter compared to the others and he said that was the most impressive no-hitter in recent memory cause Buehrle is the guy you would least expect to do it not to mention TB had one of the best offenses that year.

Edited March 28, 2010 by SoxAce

[Drew]

I'd have to go with Wood, simply because it takes a certain type of pitcher who can strike out 20 out of 27 hitters. While a perfect game involves and relies upon the efforts of the seven men behind the pitcher and the one in front of him and a precarious feat at that, three strikes on 20 out of 27 hitters is a monumental individual effort.

 

Buehrle is not the type of pitcher who can strike out 20 hitters. It takes a Clemens, a Johnson, or a Wood—before he injured himself with poor mechanics and an inability or unwillingness to listen to any coaching that could have helped him stay healthy. As much as I like and admire Mark Buehrle, he's not the type of pitcher who can get three strikes on 20 major league hitters in 9 innings.

[Kalapse]

Yea Wood easily should have had a no-hitter. I was stunned that wasn't an error. I would still say Buehrle's perfect game was much more impressive though. It's a freaking perfect game for christ sake. If it wasn't for the catch, Buehrle actually had every other hitter not hit (or no ball was really hit hard at all) him well that whole game. TB's offense was one of the best as well. Someone mentioned Buehrle's no-hitter against Texas. That was impressive too with Texas' offense. (they had Tex at that time too) But Mark needed alot of help defensively that game.

That Astros team finished with the highest runs/game and OPS+ in the NL in '98 and the only baserunners were a guy who was hit 285 times in his career doing what he does best and a pretty weak grounder to third. Only 8 times did the Astros put the ball in play that day, that's f***ing dominance.

[SoxAce]

That Astros team finished with the highest runs/game and OPS+ in the NL in '98 and the only baserunners were a guy who was hit 285 times in his career doing what he does best and a pretty weak grounder to third. Only 8 times did the Astros put the ball in play that day, that's f***ing dominance.

 

And the Rays had the #5 ranked offense in the AL (7th overall in the majors) not to mention their worst lineup they averaged 5.22 runs per game (guys like Bartlett, etc.. had career years too) TB team had seven 0 run games all season (Astros six) TB had 37 games which they scored less than 3 runs (Astros 30) so we are not talking about a huge difference here. As far as pitcher dominance, no doubt it was Wood's game. But as far as the more impressive feat, that has to be Buehrle.

[qwerty]

Actually, there have been 5 20+ K games, 4 of them in 9 innings (the other was 16 IP), 2 by Clemens, 1 by Wood and 1 by Johnson.

 

Wood's outing was exponentially more impressive than Buehrle's. Not only did Wood K 20 in that game but the only baserunner came off a fairly routine groundball to third that Kevin Orie couldn't corral, it really should have been an error. Not only that but he had to go through Craig Biggio, Derek Bell, Moises Alou and Jeff Bagwell to get it done. It's arguably the most dominant performance in baseball history.

 

The highest game score since 1953 is 116 by dean chance in 14 innings. . Kerry wood has the highest 9 inning game score since 1953 at 105. The next highest 9 inning game score is sandy koufax at 101. Buehrle's game score was 93 in his perfect game. A 93 game score is not very uncommon to see from very best seasons year in year out (top 5).

[daa84]

Woods was more dominant - no doubt about it ...maybe the most dominant performance ever....though i think most dominant pitching performance i ever saw was when randy johnson came on in relief to strike out 16 in 7 innings after a rain delay or something like that

 

but the objective of a pitcher is to get outs...and in buehrles perfect game, he was more efficient at doing that than was Wood

 

the craziest thing about buehrle is that his no-no the only guy he allowed to reach base he promptly picked off (and it was Sosa!)

[Jordan4life_2007]

Woods was more dominant - no doubt about it ...maybe the most dominant performance ever....though i think most dominant pitching performance i ever saw was when randy johnson came on in relief to strike out 16 in 7 innings after a rain delay or something like that

but the objective of a pitcher is to get outs...and in buehrles perfect game, he was more efficient at doing that than was Wood

 

the craziest thing about buehrle is that his no-no the only guy he allowed to reach base he promptly picked off (and it was Sosa!)

 

What game was this? And give me Pedro's game 5 masterpiece against arguably the most devestating offense of the modern era in '99 over any single-game performance ever.

 

[The Gooch]

The perfect game because of the pressure that is added on to it. There is not a lot of pressure in striking out a lot of guys once the first hit gets on base. There is a reason why a lot of guys make it to 7 or 8 innings of no hit ball and give one up in the last few innings. Those last 3 outs are the hardest to get. Withstanding the pressure makes it a more impressive feat to me. Given all of that, Wood was completely dominant in that 20 strikeout game. Comparing the two performances is like apples and oranges.

[Kalapse]

What game was this? And give me Pedro's game 5 masterpiece against arguably the most devestating offense of the modern era in '99 over any single-game performance ever.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SD...200107180.shtml