ST: White Sox @ Braves, 6:05 CT

[macsandz]

You're taking it to some incredible extremes. Off the top of my head I know Jason Giambi would tell anyone who would listen that he absolutely hated DH'ing, it would take him out of the flow of the game and give him far too much time to think about his ABs, he'd go up there and over think everything, playing the field would serve as a bit of a distraction for him. This is a fairly common complaint from hitters and is one of the reasons why you'd see some very good hitters stick in the field for far too long because they'd be fighting the move in the clubhouse. Vlad Guerrero's another one, he fought it for a while in Anaheim of course he was eventually forced into the move since he just couldn't physically play the field semi-regularly anymore. It's not exactly hard to figure out what I'm trying to say but since you're invoking suicide I suppose you're having trouble. So I'm about done with that.

 

Yeah, playing the field couldn't have helped his heal but he did aggravate it rounding first in Anaheim, that won't change as a full time DH. Same goes for the Hammy he strained running the bases, the wrist he broke punching a bat or the left shoulder he tore up swinging a bat. Like I said: if he's really as fragile as people believe then moving him to DH isn't going to keep him from spending time on the DL, he's already proven that he's quite proficient at hurting himself away from the outfield.

 

Pierre had 3 hits and 2 steals tonight.

[macsandz]

Am I the only one who hasn't seen a reason to laud Jones' defense in CF this spring? I don't think he's hurting us necessarily, but I have yet to see him dive, slide, or anything else remotely challenging.

 

EDIT: Is that the type of thing you don't do in the spring or something, for fear of injuring yourself? You'd think he'd show it at least once if he's trying to win a job in the field...

 

He's the best CF on the team. He hasn't had to dive, he gets to almost everything that's catchable in time. Seriously, Sox fans haven't seen a real CF that takes perfect routes like Jones in forever.

[Pants Rowland]

He's the best CF on the team. He hasn't had to dive, he gets to almost everything that's catchable in time. Seriously, Sox fans haven't seen a real CF that takes perfect routes like Jones in forever.

 

One Dog?

[macsandz]

One Dog?

 

Nope. He was fast. He had make-up speed but he never had great route instincts.

[Pants Rowland]

Nope. He was fast. He had make-up speed but he never had great route instincts.

 

Rudy Law? Or do we need to go back to the days of Ken Berry or Jungle Jim Rivera?

[ScottyDo]

I dunno, I thought BA was a pretty damn good defensive CF...

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Rudy Law? Or do we need to go back to the days of Ken Berry or Jungle Jim Rivera?

Ahh Ken Berry my boyhood idol .

[macsandz]

What are you basing this on?

 

Anyway, Ozzie said that Jones will play against LHP, and if he does, Ozzie would rather see him in the outfield.

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws

 

Aside from the fact that Jones is considered by many to be the best CF in modern history, he's playing an excellent CF this spring. A HUGE reason he's always been so good is his unreal reads he gets out there. He never had blinding speed or made crazy Rowand wall crashes. The best outfielders are the most boring to watch. They make all the plays. Jones may have lost a step, but he still takes the best routes of any OFs on the team and that isn't just making the catch, it's setting up to deny the runner(s) an advance. He is still just about perfect out there at that. Rios on the other hand has better raw tools, but he doesn't have the instincts that Jones has. Rios should stay in RF where he projects at an elite level because his arm proves more important than his closing speed.

[macsandz]

I dunno, I thought BA was a pretty damn good defensive CF...

 

Bad reads=bad jumps=diving catches. That doesn't make you a good CF.

[Kalapse]

I dunno, I thought BA was a pretty damn good defensive CF...

Aside from that first half of '06 he paled in comparison to Jones.

 

It's silly to proclaim him the best defensive CF on the team when the last time we got even a decent sample of him in CF he was just average and now he's 33 but it's certainly not plausible given his incredible abilities. It's just going to take a little time before it can be said definitively.

[Kalapse]

Bad reads=bad jumps=diving catches. That doesn't make you a good CF.

Brian Anderson definitely got outstanding jumps, he was never one for the makeup-diving catch. He made a ton of plays look easy that your average CF would be diving for.

[macsandz]

Brian Anderson definitely got outstanding jumps, he was never one for the makeup-diving catch. He made a ton of plays look easy that your average CF would be diving for.

 

Watch the black-out game final play. I was there. He broke like 3 steps into LF before he scrambled into that diving catch. Glad he made it, though. That game was as loud as the 2005 WS.

[Kalapse]

Watch the black-out game final play. I was there. He broke like 3 steps into LF before he scrambled into that diving catch. Glad he made it, though. That game was as loud as the 2005 WS.

That was 1 play. I watched him all throughout that '06 season and he was unbelievable and the numbers backed it up. It did seem like since around the halfway point of 2006 when he wasn't getting a lot of playing time his defense just wasn't the same.

[macsandz]

Aside from that first half of '06 he paled in comparison to Jones.

 

It's silly to proclaim him the best defensive CF on the team when the last time we got even a decent sample of him in CF he was just average and now he's 33 but it's certainly not plausible given his incredible abilities. It's just going to take a little time before it can be said definitively.

 

He's still 32...for a few more days. I'm not saying Jones is the CF he used to be. I'm saying he's better than any other Sox CF.

[fathom]

Bucket, have you actually watched Jones play center during ST? He looked like Podsednik out there on a deep fly ball that ended up being a ground rule double. His arm also has been horrific. I think it's a huge mistake to try and make him an outfielder, and it kills Rios' value.

[Kalapse]

He's still 32...for a few more days. I'm not saying Jones is the CF he used to be. I'm saying he's better than any other Sox CF.

And you're basing that on what? There's no way in hell you've seen enough of him over the past month to state that as fact.

[ScottyDo]

Aside from that first half of '06 he paled in comparison to Jones.

 

It's silly to proclaim him the best defensive CF on the team when the last time we got even a decent sample of him in CF he was just average and now he's 33 but it's certainly not plausible given his incredible abilities. It's just going to take a little time before it can be said definitively.

Oh I'm by no means claiming BA could sniff Jones in his prime. But to say we haven't seen a CF like the current rendition of Jones in decades....I'm not sure about that. BA had good instincts, he's just known for one diving catch. Whereas it's too soon to make a judgment on Jones' play, I have seen a couple balls drop at his feet that he may have been able to get.

 

I'm not an outfielder, I don't know, I'm just going on my extremely limited scouting abilities.

[macsandz]

Bucket, have you actually watched Jones play center during ST? He looked like Podsednik out there on a deep fly ball that ended up being a ground rule double. His arm also has been horrific. I think it's a huge mistake to try and make him an outfielder, and it kills Rios' value.

 

That CF wall is 417 feet plus dead center. That ball is an unplayable HR in any other ballpark and CF in AZ makes the best look terrible. Always has.

[macsandz]

And you're basing that on what? There's no way in hell you've seen enough of him over the past month to state that as fact.

 

So call it an opinion. Relax.

[greg775]

Aside from the fact that Jones is considered by many to be the best CF in modern history, he's playing an excellent CF this spring. A HUGE reason he's always been so good is his unreal reads he gets out there. He never had blinding speed or made crazy Rowand wall crashes. The best outfielders are the most boring to watch. They make all the plays. Jones may have lost a step, but he still takes the best routes of any OFs on the team and that isn't just making the catch, it's setting up to deny the runner(s) an advance. He is still just about perfect out there at that. Rios on the other hand has better raw tools, but he doesn't have the instincts that Jones has. Rios should stay in RF where he projects at an elite level because his arm proves more important than his closing speed.

 

Not to pile on, but my gosh, do you know what you are talking about? Jones was a DH for the Rangers and not just because he was a fat pig.

I mean he may have trimmed down some, but ...

I can't wait for the real season to begin when we can see what our new guys are really capable of and not just be talking about acquisitions who always look better in the offseason on paper.

I'm hoping they all do well (my cop out line that Rongey effectively called us out on) but my god ... Jones cannot play the outfield better than Rios.

 

 

[macsandz]

Oh I'm by no means claiming BA could sniff Jones in his prime. But to say we haven't seen a CF like the current rendition of Jones in decades....I'm not sure about that. BA had good instincts, he's just known for one diving catch. Whereas it's too soon to make a judgment on Jones' play, I have seen a couple balls drop at his feet that he may have been able to get.

 

I'm not an outfielder, I don't know, I'm just going on my extremely limited scouting abilities.

 

Case and point: Anderson: Game 163. If BA is in the game earlier, I'm not sure he throws out Cuddyer at home the way a declining Griffey did. Griffey knew where to be, took his time to set up correctly and made the throw under control. Anderson, would have made the catch, but he also would have gotten crazy excited to show off his arm and probably would have air-mailed AJ. That ties the game. Everything changes...

 

Again, my point is in his prime or now, Jones still has more positive impact effect on plays in CF based on his experience and ability than another player on the Sox roster. You can take a kid like Jared Mitchell who (without injury) has more athletic skill than Jones does, but I would still play Andruw in CF more often. There is so much more that goes into playing CF than the speed/arm component. That's what makes the position so unique.

Edited April 3, 2010 by bucket-of-suck

[macsandz]

Not to pile on, but my gosh, do you know what you are talking about? Jones was a DH for the Rangers and not just because he was a fat pig.

I mean he may have trimmed down some, but ...

I can't wait for the real season to begin when we can see what our new guys are really capable of and not just be talking about acquisitions who always look better in the offseason on paper.

I'm hoping they all do well (my cop out line that Rongey effectively called us out on) but my god ... Jones cannot play the outfield better than Rios.

 

Jones can play CF better than Rios.

Read on...

[gatnom]

So call it an opinion. Relax.

 

You didn't state it as an opinion.

[fathom]

Case and point: Anderson: Game 163. If BA is in the game earlier, I'm not sure he throws out Cuddyer at home the way a declining Griffey did. Griffey knew where to be, took his time to set up correctly and made the throw under control. Anderson, would have made the catch, but he also would have gotten crazy excited to show off his arm and probably would have air-mailed AJ. That ties the game. Everything changes...

 

Oh come on, the only reason they sent Cuddyer is because Griffey Jr's defense had become such a joke. That ball wasn't more than 75 feet into the outfield.

[Kalapse]

Jones can play CF better than Rios.

Read on...

You see, that doesn't read as an opinion, it reads as fact. That's sort of the problem here.