Outstanding Bill Simmons article

[chw42]

I wish people would stop using Sabermetrics as the reason the Red Sox are good and look at the money. Last I looked Seattle was not good last year ...oh and they have two of the top pitchers in the game.

 

Oakland is a sabermetric team and they suck.

 

Is that why the Red Sox didn't pay Bay the money the Mets paid him? If they had so much money, they would have signed Bay, Cameron, and Beltre, but they didn't because they have limited funds, just like every other team out there.

 

Seattle was damn good last year for such a weak offensive team. Just goes to show you that defense and pitching can go a long way.

 

Oakland does suck now (mostly because Billy Beane is no longer alone in the school of sabermetrics), but did you forget when they won about 90+ games in the earlier part of this past decade?

[witesoxfan]

You can choose whether or not you want to use or understand sabermetrics, but saying they are ruining the game is a joke. Without sabermetrics, there are more than a few players the game doesn't appreciate as much as they are.

[Brian]

You can choose whether or not you want to use or understand sabermetrics, but saying they are ruining the game is a joke. Without sabermetrics, there are more than a few players the game doesn't appreciate as much as they are.

 

And I don't think sabermetrics are totally ruining the game. I just think they ruins certain aspects more than fantasy baseball is the comparison I meant to make.

 

I get the sense people play fantasy baseball for fun, comapred to fantasy football where money is usually involved.

 

I'll just say that if I am at a White Sox game and I hear someone near me say think they think someone should pinch hit because they lead the league in WZARBA with 2 outs when facing a pitcher who pitched the night before for an inning, I would probably turn around and slap him.

 

[chw42]

And I don't think sabermetrics are totally ruining the game. I just think they ruins certain aspects more than fantasy baseball is the comparison I meant to make.

 

I get the sense people play fantasy baseball for fun, comapred to fantasy football where money is usually involved.

 

I'll just say that if I am at a White Sox game and I hear someone near me say think they think someone should pinch hit because they lead the league in WZARBA with 2 outs when facing a pitcher who pitched the night before for an inning, I would probably turn around and slap him.

 

What if it happens that the guy who had the uber high WZARBA was actually the better hitter and had a better chance of helping the team win? Are you still going to slap the guy for being right?

[Brian]

What if it happens that the guy who had the uber high WZARBA was actually the better hitter and had a better chance of helping the team win? Are you still going to slap the guy for being right?

 

Hold on, is that an actual stat? I seriously thought I made it up.

 

And yes. I would.

[chw42]

Hold on, is that an actual stat? I seriously thought I made it up.

 

And yes. I would.

 

No, lol.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I wish people would stop using Sabermetrics as the reason the Red Sox are good and look at the money. Last I looked Seattle was not good last year ...oh and they have two of the top pitchers in the game.

Oakland is a sabermetric team and they suck.

 

The Mariners won 85 games last year while scoring a league-low 640 runs. Why? Because they had one of the stingiest defenses of the modern era. And Sabermetrics played a big role on the construction of their team. And what do you mean two of the top pitchers in the game? Cliff Lee wasn't a Mariner last year.

 

You can choose whether or not you want to use or understand sabermetrics, but saying they are ruining the game is a joke. Without sabermetrics, there are more than a few players the game doesn't appreciate as much as they are.

 

Jermaine Dye hates Sabermetrics more than any human being on earth. It's why he's still unemployed.

[Rowand44]

Jermaine Dye hates Sabermetrics more than any human being on earth. It's why he's still unemployed.

He's still unemployed because he's stubborn as all hell. I obviously understand the point you're making though.

 

Like with everything there's some great things and some bad things that come from sabermetrics imo. I've never been the biggest stat guy in the world and probably never will be but I've certainly come around to a few things that I would have just openly dismissed a few years back. I would never base my opinion on a player entirely on stats but if any thing I know that some metrics have opened my eyes on some things that I should take notice of around the game. The first example that comes to my mind is Franklin Gutierrez. I always knew he was a good of but when you look at his unreal UZR it makes you pay more attention to him when you get to see him in person to see "ok, lets see if this guy is really as good as this metric says," and in Gutierrez's case, he definitely is. That being said, there's also been plenty of times when I've seen players don't match up anywhere near where a certain metric measures them at.

 

Basically, if you dismiss all stats or the eye test, you're making a big mistake either way because they're both pretty damn important.

[lostfan]

The Mariners won 85 games last year while scoring a league-low 640 runs. Why? Because they had one of the stingiest defenses of the modern era. And Sabermetrics played a big role on the construction of their team. And what do you mean two of the top pitchers in the game? Cliff Lee wasn't a Mariner last year.

 

 

 

Jermaine Dye hates Sabermetrics more than any human being on earth. It's why he's still unemployed.

Two of the top pitchers ≠ top two pitchers

[Chisoxfn]

Exactly, ignorance isn't a priviledge. Sabermetrics is pushing the sport forward in impressive ways. We can't fight the future, we need to embrace it.

I think the key is, the stats are incredibly valuable but way too many people throw the stats around ignorantly to the point that they are completely mis-used a ridiculous part of the time. Kalapse/Qwerty are two guys that when they put the stats out, they put it in a way where I go, oh s***, they might be onto something, etc. Normally I put a great deal of faith in my eyes, but I can only do that for people I watch play significnatly.

 

It isn't like any of us watch enough Pirates games to trust our eyes so instead, the stats become incredibly useful (if used properly). The problem is, to me, the vast majority of people that throw out the stats don't understand them enough, yet they still think they've made an excellent case. I also think it is important to understand that every stat has its flaws and you need to consider those flaws before just saying...see, the stats showed me so.

 

And this is coming from a guy that doens't overly follow the sabermetric approach. I do however really appreciate FIP, OPS+. I don't swear and consider some of those stats to be do all say alls. I happen to think VORP has some pluses, but also some serious negatives which way down how much value I really put into VORP.