Growth of Unpaid Internships May Be Illegal, Officials Say

[maggsmaggs]

I completely agree with this. I have worked in only one internship for pay (at Pro Football Weekly) and the rest have been unpaid. My employers were literally getting away with murder for the amount of work I was doing and not having to pay anything, not even minimum wage. I couldn't agree more with making unpaid internships illegal. Opinions?

 

With job openings scarce for young people, the number of unpaid internships has climbed in recent years, leading federal and state regulators to worry that more employers are illegally using such internships for free labor.

 

Convinced that many unpaid internships violate minimum wage laws, officials in Oregon, California and other states have begun investigations and fined employers. Last year, M. Patricia Smith, then New York’s labor commissioner, ordered investigations into several firms’ internships. Now, as the federal Labor Department’s top law enforcement official, she and the wage and hour division are stepping up enforcement nationwide.

 

Many regulators say that violations are widespread, but that it is unusually hard to mount a major enforcement effort because interns are often afraid to file complaints. Many fear they will become known as troublemakers in their chosen field, endangering their chances with a potential future employer.

 

The Labor Department says it is cracking down on firms that fail to pay interns properly and expanding efforts to educate companies, colleges and students on the law regarding internships.

More in the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/business...wanted=1&hp

[G&T]

I completely agree with this. I have worked in only one internship for pay (at Pro Football Weekly) and the rest have been unpaid. My employers were literally getting away with murder for the amount of work I was doing and not having to pay anything, not even minimum wage. I couldn't agree more with making unpaid internships illegal. Opinions?

 

 

More in the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/business...wanted=1&hp

 

Bad idea. I am working for free right now just to keep myself relevant and build skills while I'm getting another degree. In this economy, people would fall out of relevance quickly if they couldn't at least get in somewhere for networking etc. However, at every unpaid internship I've have my bosses have let me work on my time and they aren't demanding. Some places aren't so kind.

[Balta1701]

Bad idea. I am working for free right now just to keep myself relevant and build skills while I'm getting another degree. In this economy, people would fall out of relevance quickly if they couldn't at least get in somewhere for networking etc. However, at every unpaid internship I've have my bosses have let me work on my time and they aren't demanding. Some places aren't so kind.

One thing about industries where unpaid internships are common...the necessity of working one or more of those sort of internships serves as a barrier to entry in that industry for anyone who can't afford to go without pay for a period of months.

 

In other words...take the news media for example...if you're a young, go-getting kid from a poor family, you could have all the skill in the world, but you're soaking in student loan debt, trying to pay for housing, you've got no health care until 2014, and you wind up working at some grocery store just to make end's meat while the legacy person who's dad owns a car dealership gets a job just because he can afford to take the internship for a few months without pay.

 

It's a great way to keep those dirty minorities out of the news business.

 

[Texsox]

Hmm, businesses can't afford to pay someone so they could just do without which is cutting off everyone from gaining any experience. Instead, they will offer for free mentorship, supervision, and references to someone willing to put in some effort. Students are willing to pay huge sums of money for theoritical knowledge, but want to be paid for gaining practical experience?

[G&T]

One thing about industries where unpaid internships are common...the necessity of working one or more of those sort of internships serves as a barrier to entry in that industry for anyone who can't afford to go without pay for a period of months.

 

In other words...take the news media for example...if you're a young, go-getting kid from a poor family, you could have all the skill in the world, but you're soaking in student loan debt, trying to pay for housing, you've got no health care until 2014, and you wind up working at some grocery store just to make end's meat while the legacy person who's dad owns a car dealership gets a job just because he can afford to take the internship for a few months without pay.

 

It's a great way to keep those dirty minorities out of the news business.

 

I clerked at a law firm for money and didn't get hired full time because someone else's daddy knew the managing partner. That someone else never worked a job without pay. And in the legal world, my story is not uncommon from my class.

 

I think the real problem isn't the internships themselves, it's the expectations from the employer. Like I said, I work on my time and I could get a paid part time job as well. That's the way it should be. Unfortunately there are places that treat these people like real employees, which isn't really fair.

[The Gooch]

Hmm, businesses can't afford to pay someone so they could just do without which is cutting off everyone from gaining any experience. Instead, they will offer for free mentorship, supervision, and references to someone willing to put in some effort. Students are willing to pay huge sums of money for theoritical knowledge, but want to be paid for gaining practical experience?

 

Well some companies use the internships as free labor instead of a learning experience. In other words, they use interns to do simple tasks for free where there isn't much learning involved, instead of giving them any real responsibilities or learning experiences. I think those are the type of unpaid internships they want to get rid of.

[maggsmaggs]

Hmm, businesses can't afford to pay someone so they could just do without which is cutting off everyone from gaining any experience. Instead, they will offer for free mentorship, supervision, and references to someone willing to put in some effort. Students are willing to pay huge sums of money for theoritical knowledge, but want to be paid for gaining practical experience?

yeah but these internships should at least give students some financial support like travel reimbursement, lunch stipend and possibly other similar pays. I have been lucky in all my internships to actually do real work and have great learning experiences, but that's not the case everywhere. Even in my internships, I lose money because of the travel, but am lucky enough to be able to afford these real-life opportunities. But the fact is like others have mentioned, people who are aren't as advantaged economically get shunned out of these real-world experiences and instead have to work jobs completely unrelated to their futures to help their family and school bills. That system just isn't fair.

[jasonxctf]

i remember being in college and looking for an internship. (i was at uic)

 

MTV/Viacom called for their offices on Michigan Ave. Unpaid and I would basically be responsible for any transportation costs to and from the office too. I said forget it.

 

Found an internship starting at $10/hr that ended up bumping the wage to $13/hr and then hired me fulltime for $35k/yr when I graduated in 2001.

[SouthsideDon48]

Hmm, businesses can't afford to pay someone so they could just do without which is cutting off everyone from gaining any experience. Instead, they will offer for free mentorship, supervision, and references to someone willing to put in some effort. Students are willing to pay huge sums of money for theoritical knowledge, but want to be paid for gaining practical experience?

No one, not even interns, should ever work for free. Period.

 

I've turned down internships because they were unpaid and I didn't believe in doing work without getting paid for it in return. School is for learning and jobs is for generating income, students shouldn't have to burden themselves by having to work for free just to fullfill some academic requirement. Some people like me would have to keep our old jobs just so we can do unpaid internships on the side, and even then doing an unpaid internship wouldn't be worth it.

[MHizzle85]

No one, not even interns, should ever work for free. Period.

 

I've turned down internships because they were unpaid and I didn't believe in doing work without getting paid for it in return. School is for learning and jobs is for generating income, students shouldn't have to burden themselves by having to work for free just to fullfill some academic requirement. Some people like me would have to keep our old jobs just so we can do unpaid internships on the side, and even then doing an unpaid internship wouldn't be worth it.

I agree, but when you need one to graduate (such as myself) you really don't have a choice. On the bright side, it counts as a class so I have that extra time during the week to commit to the internship.

[The Beast]

If any of the seven internships I applied for (ESPN Radio 1000, 670 the Score (2 positions), Finishline, Bulls/Sox academy, UIC sports information department, Loyola sports information department), I would definitely work for free because I'm one of the few lucky ones who can financially afford to do so. In a way, it is possible, based on the hours that you intern to work part-time and gain experience throughout the week. The only other option that I would suggest to anyone is to just find a job related to something you are interested in doing on campus. For example, I work as an assistant for the sports information department and provide game recaps/record live statistics for the home baseball and softball games. Will I do this as a job? No, it is just something I have done to show to an employer, so that they know I have writing skills even though I am a business major. My point is that there are ways to get away with experience without having an internship on your record.

[Texsox]

No one, not even interns, should ever work for free. Period.

 

I've turned down internships because they were unpaid and I didn't believe in doing work without getting paid for it in return. School is for learning and jobs is for generating income, students shouldn't have to burden themselves by having to work for free just to fullfill some academic requirement. Some people like me would have to keep our old jobs just so we can do unpaid internships on the side, and even then doing an unpaid internship wouldn't be worth it.

 

 

Then how would you add any "real world" experience into acadamia?

[Soxy]

Then how would you add any "real world" experience into acadamia?

Academic Service Learning

Practicums

Experiential Assignments

A business class at my school just went to the prison for a lecture on Business Ethics

 

For a good instructor, this is not a difficult task.

[bmags]

Then how would you add any "real world" experience into acadamia?

 

really?

[bigruss]

Then how would you add any "real world" experience into acadamia?

For business it is quite easy to do so:

 

Case Competitions

Presentations/Q&A sessions with managers in workfield

Office visits

Job Shadows

 

etc...

Some of these can be provided by professors, others by the actual college or student groups.

[Texsox]

And those would be as valuable as an internship? I guess internships have turned pretty crappy.

[Texsox]

Academic Service Learning

Practicums

Experiential Assignments

A business class at my school just went to the prison for a lecture on Business Ethics

 

For a good instructor, this is not a difficult task.

If only there were more instructors than lecturers in colleges. My point is it is still a lecture, albeit it in a different seat.

 

Eliminating unpaid internships seems pretty harsh.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Eliminating unpaid internships seems pretty harsh.

 

I agree, although I understand the need to police the situation to see that the practice is not abused.

 

Those of you here who point out the unfairness of unpaid internships in this economy aren't grasping that it is the economy and the generally lousy current extramural funding environment that often necessitates unpaid internships. If I was a student that needed the experience for career advancement, I may wish I was receiving a stipend but I might have to take the internship anyway. If an employer regularly abuses the practice, I'm sure news of that gets around and you can avoid that company.

 

[Balta1701]

I'm sure news of that gets around and you can avoid that company.

Unless it becomes standard practice/a requirement for entry into an industry.

[bmags]

Unless it becomes standard practice/a requirement for entry into an industry.

 

this.

 

You guys really aren't grasping the reality of the situation. It's at the point where few are paid. When I was looking at journalism internships, getting paid was a long shot, especially out of washington. And again...I couldn't afford it. I stayed in columbia to work. And then senior year when I went to job fairs, every one said I'd need more than my Missourian clips...a real newspaper. That's why I said f*** it i hope your industry fails and then went to brazil.

[Soxy]

If only there were more instructors than lecturers in colleges. My point is it is still a lecture, albeit it in a different seat.

 

Eliminating unpaid internships seems pretty harsh.

No, they aren't lectures. At least in the cases of Practicums and Service Learning they are hands on field experiences that, when done thoughtfully, ask the student to reflect on their experience while integrating concepts from their classes and majors. There is nothing lecture-y about it when done properly.

 

And yes, the type of instructor matters. An increased over-reliance on ad-hoc faculty (because of their cheapness) is hurting the quality of higher education.

[bmags]

No, they aren't lectures. At least in the cases of Practicums and Service Learning they are hands on field experiences that, when done thoughtfully, ask the student to reflect on their experience while integrating concepts from their classes and majors. There is nothing lecture-y about it when done properly.

 

And yes, the type of instructor matters. An increased over-reliance on ad-hoc faculty (because of their cheapness) is hurting the quality of higher education.

 

As long as they are adding more flat screens they'll stay high on US news and World Reports list though.

[Texsox]

No, they aren't lectures. At least in the cases of Practicums and Service Learning they are hands on field experiences that, when done thoughtfully, ask the student to reflect on their experience while integrating concepts from their classes and majors. There is nothing lecture-y about it when done properly.

 

And yes, the type of instructor matters. An increased over-reliance on ad-hoc faculty (because of their cheapness) is hurting the quality of higher education.

 

 

You mentioned the lecture on business practices at a prison which seems interesting but ultimately is a lecture with a different venue. I agree with everything you wrote there. I would also like to see an emphasis and promotions based more on pedagogy than research and grant seeking for college Professors.

 

Again, it is all about control, that ad-hoc faculty may actually have experience in private industry, while the Professor never did. Having a professor with no actual experience simulating that experience for their students seems like a lesser experience than an internship. And along your point of economics getting into the equation, the hiring of younger faculty while pushing out older, more experienced (and more expensive), faculty is an issue.

 

Also, some of these internships seems pretty crappy. Perhaps that is where the focus should be. I remember two people I hired who had great internships. They basically rotated through five different departments of a company. They were given some small things to work on after shadowing a regular employee. I understand now that some interns are little more than unpaid part time labor who do not learn too much. That is crap. Those internships should be stopped.

 

Bottom line, the intern better gain something of value for their time. If all they are doing is unjamming the copy machine, making coffee, and filing papers, then pay them.

 

Finally, when I was hiring people one of the questions I would always ask is how do you know you will be happy with this position? I always prefered to hear they had actual experience at a company over I took a class in college.