The #2 and #5 spots in the lineup...

[Balta1701]

Konerko and Jones, as Quentin will get intentionally walked nearly every time in that situation.

And as soon as you bunt with Beckham to get Pierre to 2nd...the right move becomes to give Q nothing to hit and to try to walk him, because Konerko is an easy GIDP with his wheels, if you can keep the ball down.

[bmags]

And as soon as you bunt with Beckham to get Pierre to 2nd...the right move becomes to give Q nothing to hit and to try to walk him, because Konerko is an easy GIDP with his wheels, if you can keep the ball down.

 

yep.

[chw42]

Beckham, by the way, is not this team's best hitter just yet. I know we're all excited about watching him develop at this level, but I think we should also reel it in a bit.

 

He's the best pure contact hitter on the team, which in that situation says he is the best hitter on this team.

Edited April 9, 2010 by chw42

[Ranger]

i would much rather see Beckham up at the plate in a pressure situation than any other guy not named Quentin or Konerko.

 

Which would make him the 3rd best hitter, right?

 

Konerko and Jones, as Quentin will get intentionally walked nearly every time in that situation.

 

Well they didn't walk him in the 7th and they didn't intentionally walk him in the 9th until he got a 3-1 count. I understand Konerko is slow, but he's not an automatic douple play, either.

 

PLus, I think you're all forgetting who was pitching at the time. Rafael Perez. Tough to steal off a lefty to begin with and it's even tougher when that guy's pickoff move is basically a balk. In fact, he absolutely balked (it wasn't called) in the previous inning when Rios was at first and Teahen was up.

 

Listen, I'm sure Pierre will attempt some steals in the 9th, but it isn't going to happen in every single situation.

[SouthsideDon48]

Hmmmmm, after thinking a little more, it seems to me that it'd be easier to construct the lineup if our lead-off hitter was right-handed.

 

What if we used Alexei as our lead-off hitter, followed by Pierre and Beckham?

 

1. Alexei r

2. Pierre l

3. Beckham r

4. Quentin r

5. Konerko r

6. Pierzynski l

7. Rios r

8. Kotsay/Jones l/r

9. Teahen l

 

That way, if Alexei gets on base, Pierre can bunt and hopefully beat out the throw for a bunt single, then Beckham can have free reign to try and hit a double that can potentially score both Alexei and Pierre, and if that doesn't work, we'll have Quentin and Konerko next.

 

I think I'm more in favor of having Kotsay bat lower in the lineup, even if it means altering the top of the lineup by putting someone else (Alexei) ahead of the prototypical leadoff hitter in Pierre.

 

[chw42]

Because it's fairly large risk in the 9th inning of a tie game. Yes, he's gonna steal bases, but he's not going to do it at a 100% rate. Runner at 2nd with Quentin and Konerko coming up provides a pretty damn good chance to drive in that run.

 

This isn't to say that he won't ever attempt a steal in a similar situation, but it's not going to happen every time.

 

It's a risk worth taking in a tie game. It might not be in a game where the team is down a run though.

 

Rafael Perez was pitching, he takes a long time to deliver to the plate because of his high leg kick. Marson's a mediocre defensive catcher. Pierre has a 75-80% chance of nabbing that base. If Juan is caught stealing. You have Beckham, Quentin, and Konerko coming up anyways. Either way, you lose an out. But the rewards of the stolen base is much higher than the reward of the bunt.

 

Giving up an out is not smart, especially when the guy up is Gordon Beckham. Unless you're going to bunt somebody over to third there, it's not a good idea.

 

Plus, Ozzie played right into Acta's hands there.

[flavum]

Alexei is closer to being benched than being the leadoff hitter. It's not a good idea.

Edited April 9, 2010 by flavum

[Ranger]

It's a risk worth taking in a tie game. It might not be in a game where the team is down a run though.

 

Rafael Perez was pitching, he takes a long time to deliver to the plate because of his high leg kick. Marson's a mediocre defensive catcher. Pierre has a 75-80% chance of nabbing that base. If Juan is caught stealing. You have Beckham, Quentin, and Konerko coming up anyways. Either way, you lose an out. But the rewards of the stolen base is much higher than the reward of the bunt.

 

Giving up an out is not smart, especially when the guy up is Gordon Beckham. Unless you're going to bunt somebody over to third there, it's not a good idea.

 

Plus, Ozzie played right into Acta's hands there.

 

Read my previous post.

[chw42]

Read my previous post.

 

I trust Pierre when it comes to reading moves. He's done this for long enough to know.

 

The amount of time it takes a pitcher to deliver the pitch is far more important in this situation.

Edited April 9, 2010 by chw42

[Ranger]

I trust Pierre when it comes to reading moves. He's done this for long enough to know.

 

The amount of time it takes a pitcher to deliver the pitch is far more important in this situation.

 

OK.

[chw42]

OK.

 

I just timed Perez's delivery, got somewhere between .9 to 1.1 seconds (from leg kick to release). Not Mr. Speedy. Pierre's chances of getting a steal there would have been pretty decent.

Edited April 9, 2010 by chw42

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I just timed Perez's delivery, got somewhere between .9 to 1.1 seconds (from leg kick to release). Not Mr. Speedy. Pierre's chances of getting a steal there would have been pretty decent.

 

Theres a reason pitchers like Mark Buehrle, Andy Pettitte, Kenny Rogers etc never had people attempting to steal on them very often. Just saying.

[103 mph screwball]

A double would have brought Pierre home from first or at least 2nd and 3rd with nobody out. STOP bunting Beckham PLEASE! If bunting over the leadoff hitter is going to be the game plan, have Rios lead off, Pierre 2nd and Beckham 3rd. Let him produce runs. Hit and run is fine, bunting is a waste in Beckham's case.

 

Pierre gets on, Beckham bunts, intentional walk TCQ, Paully GIDP. NO, NO, NO!

 

[Ranger]

I just timed Perez's delivery, got somewhere between .9 to 1.1 seconds (from leg kick to release). Not Mr. Speedy. Pierre's chances of getting a steal there would have been pretty decent.

 

It's not about a stopwatch with a left-handed pitcher. It's about the ability to be able to recognize for sure whether the delivery is to the plate or it's coming at you. Since you apparently have the game on DVR or something, go back and watch the pickoff move in the previous inning and how it looked like he was going straight to the plate but instead the ball came to first. Before Pierre can commit to the steal, he has to know first whether he's about to get picked off or not.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Ranger

[iamshack]

Well, I have watched the Indians' broadcast the last two nights and they have been talking at length about the time it takes a pitcher to deliver to the plate. 1.3 seconds, according to them, is about league average. So .9-1.1 is actually very quick.

 

Secondly, they remarked specifically about Perez's pickoff move, and said themselves that it is brutal. They said he shouldn't even throw over there because it gives the runner a chance to pick up on an indicator.

 

So if your stopwatch it right, he has a quick delivery to the plate, but according to those who know best, he has a poor pickoff move.

 

Even still, Ozzie bunted Beckham twice in this situation, so I don't think it has anything to do with the pitchers.

 

Personally, I would have allowed Pierre to steal the base.

[Milkman delivers]

Because it's fairly large risk in the 9th inning of a tie game. Yes, he's gonna steal bases, but he's not going to do it at a 100% rate. Runner at 2nd with Quentin and Konerko coming up provides a pretty damn good chance to drive in that run.

 

This isn't to say that he won't ever attempt a steal in a similar situation, but it's not going to happen every time.

 

In fact, he's probably going to do it at a 75% success rate, which makes him virtually useless in that regard.

[Rowand44]

I don't think I've ever been so angry at an Ozzie Guillen move like I was last night when he made Becks bunt twice and that's saying something. Gotta love in the 9th how our own damn manager took the bat out of our two best hitters hands, brilliant f***in managing.

[Rowand44]

Bunting him over in the 9th inning is fine. I wouldn't have done it in the 7th, though.

Giving up your two best hitters in the 9th is fine? I don't think so.

[Ranger]

Well, I have watched the Indians' broadcast the last two nights and they have been talking at length about the time it takes a pitcher to deliver to the plate. 1.3 seconds, according to them, is about league average. So .9-1.1 is actually very quick.

 

Secondly, they remarked specifically about Perez's pickoff move, and said themselves that it is brutal. They said he shouldn't even throw over there because it gives the runner a chance to pick up on an indicator.

 

So if your stopwatch it right, he has a quick delivery to the plate, but according to those who know best, he has a poor pickoff move.

 

Even still, Ozzie bunted Beckham twice in this situation, so I don't think it has anything to do with the pitchers.

 

Personally, I would have allowed Pierre to steal the base.

 

Yeah, what's brutal about it is that it's a balk. But if they aren't calling it, it's tough to steal on it.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Ranger

[Balta1701]

In fact, he's probably going to do it at a 75% success rate, which makes him virtually useless in that regard.

I flipped through some of the numbers last night...and after looking at the odds of scoring with a guy on 2nd and 0 outs compared to the odds of scoring with a guy on 1b and 0 outs and a guy on 2b and 1 out...If Pierre can steal at a 75% clip, especially with our 2-3-4 hitters coming up, I think attempting the steal there actually gives you the best chance of scoring the single run. If Pierre is in Podsednik territory on being gunned down, then that's a problem.

[Texsox]

And as soon as you bunt with Beckham to get Pierre to 2nd...the right move becomes to give Q nothing to hit and to try to walk him, because Konerko is an easy GIDP with his wheels, if you can keep the ball down.

 

 

At which point I wouldn't mind seeing Kotsay off the bench to pinch hit for Konerko, which of course will never happen, even when it is possible,

[hammerhead johnson]

So if your stopwatch it right, he has a quick delivery to the plate, but according to those who know best, he has a poor pickoff move.

 

Any time you have a left-handed pitcher out there, it gets tricky. Like Ranger said, Perez has a balkish-type move that doesn't get called. You really want to risk getting picked off?

 

I was fine with Beckham bunting both times, given the circumstances.

[Balta1701]

At which point I wouldn't mind seeing Kotsay off the bench to pinch hit for Konerko, which of course will never happen, even when it is possible,

Kotsay PH for Konerko? Seriously? Kotsay was grounding out to infielders on things that should have been double plays like he'd been practicing it all spring.

[fathom]

Any time you have a left-handed pitcher out there, it gets tricky. Like Ranger said, Perez has a balkish-type move that doesn't get called. You really want to risk getting picked off?

 

I was fine with Beckham bunting both times, given the circumstances.

 

Sure, it's a risk, but even if that happens, you still get to have Beckham and Quentin bat. Beckham will likely hit twice as many doubles this season as caught stealings for Pierre, so I'm fine with that risk.

[hammerhead johnson]

Would I rather see Beckham in the 3 hole? Undoubtedly. But based on last night's circumstances, sacrifice bunts were called for out of the #2 slot. I'd have done the same thing.