The #2 and #5 spots in the lineup...

[Kalapse]

From what I saw of Andruw Jones throughout spring training, he's much better than just a .220 caliber hitter. A good 30 to 40 points better. I don't know how this is even arguable. I also don't know how Kalapse and Balta thought I was basing my opinion on the first three regular season games. I thought that y'all were much smarter than that.

I'm smart enough to know that spring results are to be taken with a grain of salt seeing as how it's glorified batting practice and what? A 60 PA sample size, that's 2 weeks worth of games. I wouldn't base an opinion on a player through the first 2 weeks of the regular season let alone spring training.

[hammerhead johnson]

You can't possibly argue that Jones is a .275 hitter and then refuse to think that Beckham could be better than .270.

 

When did I say that? Jones looks like he could put up at least a .250 average this season - I'd be shocked if he stayed in the .220 range.

 

Beckham is a .280 type until further notice.

 

And thanks to some of y'all for telling me that spring training stats don't matter - I did not know that. I don't know why I even bothered to tune in for any of the games.

[Kalapse]

Who gives a s*** about the stats. I'm just going off how certain players looked in their at bats. Hell of a concept, huh?

Then why don't you want Mark Kotsay hitting 5th? He looked amazing last month and during September of last year.

[hammerhead johnson]

I'm smart enough to know that spring results are to be taken with a grain of salt seeing as how it's glorified batting practice and what? A 60 PA sample size, that's 2 weeks worth of games. I wouldn't base an opinion on a player through the first 2 weeks of the regular season let alone spring training.

 

But how has Andruw Jones looked in his at bats? Much better than a .220 caliber hitter, correct? He's been labeling a lot of balls.

 

I'm talking about scouting a dude, more or less.

 

You guys are busy telling me that I need to take spring training results with a grain of salt, something I knew back in '83 when I was a kindergartener. But thanks for reminding me.

 

And Balta, Beckham looks like he will eventually be a .300 hitter, but maybe we're jumping the gun a little bit with this "OMG HE'S OUR BEST HITTER DON'T TAKE THE BAT OUT OF HIS HANDS" crap.

 

[hammerhead johnson]

Then why don't you want Mark Kotsay hitting 5th? He looked amazing last month and during September of last year.

 

Dude is a singles hitter.

 

The sarcasm done backfired.

[SoxAce]

Hammerhead, your one of my top 3 personal favorite posters. One of the rarest times I strongly disagree with you, and don't get you in this one. Hell even a freaking hit and run would have been better than a man who, prior to last season, has never bunted before in his life. I was more impressed Becks got the bunt down actually.. good technique he showed. Looks like he's been working on that.

 

Oh btw.. for a guy who never played LF in his career (god Ozzie...) Rios didn't look bad out there with the angles.

Edited April 9, 2010 by SoxAce

[chw42]

Well, I have watched the Indians' broadcast the last two nights and they have been talking at length about the time it takes a pitcher to deliver to the plate. 1.3 seconds, according to them, is about league average. So .9-1.1 is actually very quick.

 

Secondly, they remarked specifically about Perez's pickoff move, and said themselves that it is brutal. They said he shouldn't even throw over there because it gives the runner a chance to pick up on an indicator.

 

So if your stopwatch it right, he has a quick delivery to the plate, but according to those who know best, he has a poor pickoff move.

 

Even still, Ozzie bunted Beckham twice in this situation, so I don't think it has anything to do with the pitchers.

 

Personally, I would have allowed Pierre to steal the base.

 

Does that include the ball to the plate? Because it takes the ball .5 seconds just to get to the plate. I timed from kick to release.

[Kalapse]

Dude is a singles hitter.

 

The sarcasm done backfired.

So what if he is a singles hitter? He looked like a .300 hitter during the spring and has done that before in his career. If he's going to hit .300 during the regular season that OPS will be up around .780 to .800 which would make him a pretty good 5 hole hitter.

[hammerhead johnson]

So what if he is a singles hitter? He looked like a .300 hitter during the spring and has done that before in his career. If he's going to hit .300 during the regular season that OPS will be up around .780 to .800 which would make him a pretty good 5 hole hitter.

 

Awesome 5 hole hitter with the career .410 slugging percentage.

 

I'd consider putting him in the 2 slot, though.

 

[Kalapse]

But how has Andruw Jones looked in his at bats? Much better than a .220 caliber hitter, correct? He's been labeling a lot of balls.

 

I'm talking about scouting a dude, more or less.

 

You guys are busy telling me that I need to take spring training results with a grain of salt, something I knew back in '83 when I was a kindergartener. But thanks for reminding me.

 

And Balta, Beckham looks like he will eventually be a .300 hitter, but maybe we're jumping the gun a little bit with this "OMG HE'S OUR BEST HITTER DON'T TAKE THE BAT OUT OF HIS HANDS" crap.

He picked up 17 hits during the spring, how many of those did you actually see? Seriously though, what can you really learn from like 25 to 30 PA? Would you trade big time prospects for a player if your scout advised you to do so based on him sitting in the stands for 5 games? If I was scouting Vernon Wells right now I'd have to say he's one of the best hitters in the game.

[hammerhead johnson]

Hammerhead, your one of my top 3 personal favorite posters. One of the rarest times I strongly disagree with you, and don't get you in this one. Hell even a freaking hit and run would have been better than a man who, prior to last season, has never bunted before in his life. I was more impressed Becks got the bunt down actually.. good technique he showed. Looks like he's been working on that.

 

It looks like he's pretty damn good at bunting, though. It's one of the numerous reasons why I didn't have an issue with it. Again, context is everything.

[Kalapse]

Awesome 5 hole hitter with the career .410 slugging percentage.

 

I'd consider putting him in the 2 slot, though.

Yeah, but now you're going back to numbers. Andruw Jones has hit .207 over his last 1228 regular season plate appearances but now he's back to his late 20's form based on a few spring games in which you saw him drive the ball? I saw Kotsay killing balls all spring perhaps he'll revert back to his late 20's self.

[chw42]

Yeah, what's brutal about it is that it's a balk. But if they aren't calling it, it's tough to steal on it.

 

It does look like a balk, but you can definitely differentiate it. His leg kick is slightly different on the pick off move.

Edited April 9, 2010 by chw42

[Rowand44]

I'd consider putting him in the 2 slot, though.

Seriously dude? You're in an interesting mood today apparently.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Looks like Andruw Jones has become Hammer's Tyson Chandler aka most recent obsession.

[SoxAce]

It looks like he's pretty damn good at bunting, though. It's one of the numerous reasons why I didn't have an issue with it. Again, context is everything.

 

I just don't get it when your paying a LF 5+ mil (or about 3 mil from LA's eating up) who has very limited tools to not use his best one which is to steal bases. This wasn't Ivan Rodriguez behind the plate. I hate Pierre's game, but the man can run and that is one of the rare useful things he does on this ball-club. There is a reason Ozzie wanted to hit Beckham 6th for quite sometime, but he has no choice with some of the other guys. Now personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Alexei hit 2nd who put up a .343 OBP last season in the 2 spot, but he always sucks in April, so you can actually give up an at bat on him. I'm not saying even if Pierre steals Becks would get a hit, cause it's possible that he might not deliver like he didn't in the 7th inning, but I'll take my chances on a gap to gap hitter anyday.

Edited April 9, 2010 by SoxAce

[hammerhead johnson]

He picked up 17 hits during the spring, how many of those did you actually see? Seriously though, what can you really learn from like 25 to 30 PA? Would you trade big time prospects for a player if your scout advised you to do so based on him sitting in the stands for 5 games? If I was scouting Vernon Wells right now I'd have to say he's one of the best hitters in the game.

 

I'm not even talking about results. He's been labeling a lot of balls, and if they happen to result in outs, who cares. The point is - he ain't no .220 hitter on April 10, 2010. More like a .250 hitter.

 

And yes, I don't have to see all that many plate appearances to get a feel for what a guy is capable of, and neither do you.

[hammerhead johnson]

Seriously dude? You're in an interesting mood today apparently.

 

If he could hit .280 and put up a .350 OBP, as he is capable of, then yeah, why not?

 

It makes a hell of a lot more sense than putting him in the 5 hole.

 

But I never even said that I'd do it - I said that I'd think about it.

 

I'm not in an interesting mood. It's just misunderstandings that are rampant this afternoon.

[hammerhead johnson]

Looks like Andruw Jones has become Hammer's Tyson Chandler aka most recent obsession.

 

Why, because I said he could be a .250 hitter, and that it's not extremely far-fetched for him to get a single with a man on second?

[hammerhead johnson]

Yeah, but now you're going back to numbers. Andruw Jones has hit .207 over his last 1228 regular season plate appearances but now he's back to his late 20's form based on a few spring games in which you saw him drive the ball? I saw Kotsay killing balls all spring perhaps he'll revert back to his late 20's self.

 

Jones seems like he's somewhat got it together from a mental standpoint, and he's in great shape.

 

You could not say the same about his overall state of physical and mental wel being when discussing those previous 1200+ plate appearances.

 

[Rowand44]

If he could hit .280 and put up a .350 OBP, as he is capable of, then yeah, why not?

Cause he's not capable of that anymore.

[Balta1701]

Jones seems like he's somewhat got it together from a mental standpoint, and he's in great shape.

 

You could not say the same about his overall state of physical and mental wel being when discussing those previous 1200+ plate appearances.

Actually, those same things were said about Jones a couple of times the past few years.

[hammerhead johnson]

Cause he's not capable of that anymore.

 

Why not? He hit .290 with the Braves in '08, and he hit .290 with the Sox last season. How is he not capable of hitting .280 and posting an OBP right around .350? You could do much worse out of the 2 slot.

[WCSox]

Cause he's not capable of that anymore.

 

He's "capable" of it, but his age and health/attitude issues are working against him. If he puts up a .250 BA and .330 OBP with decent power for 2/3 of a season, he'll have exceeded my expectations.

 

EDIT: This above is regarding Jones, not Kotsay. My only expectations regarding Kotsay are that Ozzie gives Jones more ABs at DH.

 

Edited April 9, 2010 by WCSox

[hammerhead johnson]

Actually, those same things were said about Jones a couple of times the past few years.

 

About him being in great shape going into the 2009 season? Yeah. But he's been a mental basketcase since the 2007 season.