Ozzie please resign, I know you can't sit through this again

[Milkman delivers]

Ozzie is a little thin-skinned for an MLB manager. He ate up all the genius talk in 2005 and now even Oney yaps about how the White Sox knew nothing about winning until the Guillens came to town. Of course Ozzie's .525 winning pct. looks pretty good against Jerry Manuel's .515, even though that's only 1.5 extra wins a year, but pales in comparison to Gene Lamont's .551. There are very few managers/coaches/GMs that aren't eventually going to be called an idiot by a lot of people. Ozzie is no exception.

 

He shouldn't be popping off, and he also shouldn't resign. Its 5 games. See how you feel a month from now. I still feel if they don't hit soon, KW's trigger is going to be a lot quicker than normal considering he wasn't entirely sold on the current plan in the first place.

 

The Guillens, that's hilarious. What could possibly make his sons think they had absolutely anything to do with any of the success that the team experienced in the last few years?

[caulfield12]

Saw some eye-popping stats.

 

We've now lost 13 of 15 to the Piranhas.

 

In our last 12 tries in Toronto, we're a robust 1-11 (going back through 2007).

 

Included in that is getting outscored 48-22. At that pace, our offense actually might be headed for a further "mini-slump" in RPG.

[greg775]

I know it's totally early, but the Sox like most teams rarely hit better on the road than home.

We are going to really need to suck it up to avoid a pretty horrendous record through our first dozen games.

 

Oh, and this quote, just kind of sucks as Minnie continues to dominate the Sox.

 

“When we play the White Sox, home or away, everyone gets fired up for the games,” said Twins outfielder Denard Span, who was startled to learn how one-sided the series has been lately. “They have a good team, and they play hard. For us to come here and win the majority of games, it’s good for our psyche.”

 

Edited April 11, 2010 by greg775

[Dizzy Sox]

Shouldn't we wait until the 7th or 8th game of the season to proclaim 2010 over?

[fathom]

I was gone for the last two days, but the DH situation is shaping up to be like the Wise leadoff disaster last season. As DAllen always says, our offense was brutal last year with Thome and Dye (Dye had a monster first half). Shame on this organization for trotting out this pathetic lineup.

[greg775]

The problem is they have made no attempt to upgrade.

I think overall we'd be in better shape if we made no changes from last year to now.

Pods, Dye, Thome would arguably cause more havoc than Juan, Teahen, Jones, Omar, etc.

We shall see. You would think we have enough talent in CQ, Paulie, AJ, Rios, Lexi to start scoring 4-5 a game. Maybe?

Edited April 11, 2010 by greg775

[fathom]

The problem is they have made no attempt to upgrade.

I think overall we'd be in better shape if we made no changes from last year to now.

Pods, Dye, Thome would arguably cause more havoc than Juan, Teahen, Jones, Omar, etc.

 

It's simple, Ozzie wanted his "versatility", which was basically the dumbest idea in the history of baseball. Mark Kotsay was on his way to being out of baseball last year before being traded for Anderson. Now, he's our #5 hitter. It's bad when I feel like Jayson Nix needs to be getting a lot more at bats. Vizquel getting at bats over him against a LHP is just retarded. Also, time for Randy Williams to get released. He's terrible. BTW, even though I blamed Ozzie above, Kenny Williams has not done a very good job as our GM the past two seasons. He needs to take a lot of the credit. I can't see anyway our team can stay within 5-7 games of the Twins. Just a superior team with better baseball IQ and manager.

[fathom]

We shall see. You would think we have enough talent in CQ, Paulie, AJ, Rios, Lexi to start scoring 4-5 a game. Maybe?

 

You do realize that guys like Konerko, AJP, Rios, and Ramirez are basically league average players? Quentin also has a far way to go to prove 2008 wasn't a fluke season. He should be able to do that, but he's looking like someone who's just trying to homer every at bat and not doing the little things at the plate.

[caulfield12]

It's simple, Ozzie wanted his "versatility", which was basically the dumbest idea in the history of baseball. Mark Kotsay was on his way to being out of baseball last year before being traded for Anderson. Now, he's our #5 hitter. It's bad when I feel like Jayson Nix needs to be getting a lot more at bats. Vizquel getting at bats over him against a LHP is just retarded. Also, time for Randy Williams to get released. He's terrible. BTW, even though I blamed Ozzie above, Kenny Williams has not done a very good job as our GM the past two seasons. He needs to take a lot of the credit. I can't see anyway our team can stay within 5-7 games of the Twins. Just a superior team with better baseball IQ and manager.

 

And yet the argument will always be that the Twins didn't win the World Series (heck, they only made the second round once, and that was by beating the A's, another small market team) and that we did.

 

Looking back on this decade, it will feel like a squandered opportunity...especially the 2006 season, when the organization had all the momentum in the world going for it and the wheels just came off. I almost think that 2008 caused us to lose our pessimism too quickly...

 

Quentin is the only player who hasn't been the same (since 2008), you can argue that Ramirez regressed a bit last year, but Danks and Floyd are even better than before. And then with Beckham, I think we were all too quick to annoint him as the latest version of Chase Utley before he even made it through his dreaded sophomore season.

 

Williams is between a rock and a hard place....it's almost impossible for him to tear everything up and admit defeat and the consequences to our attendance are well-documented (whenever we do something approximating a rebuild), but it's getting close to decision time with this group, particularly Konerko and Jenks. Santos MIGHT be the real deal, and that could save us the money we would be using for Jenks in 2011, but there's absolutely zero answer to fix the current mess.

 

And that answer of trading for a Gonzalez and parting with Jordan Danks, Hudson and Tyler Flowers (as a starting point) seems very ill-advised.

 

But squandering the kind of starting pitching we have on a season-long basis, you just wonder what KW's thinking right now and how quick that itchy trigger finger will be.

 

It's not like we would automatically be 4-1 or 3-2 with Johnny Damon, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility, either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[greg775]

I wasn't for signing Damon at the time for some reason, but having him at the top of our order would make me feel pretty good compared to now.

 

[hogan873]

I hardly think that 5 games into the season we could proclaim it over, but damn thing are looking bleak. I don't know if I've ever seen such an anemic offense. 4 or 5 more runs over the past 3 or 4 games could've resulted in a 3-2 record vs. 1-4. I know it won't be like this forever, but I'm a little concerned right now.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I might have to pull a qwerty and take a break from this board for a while (or at least PHT).

[TitoMB345]

And that answer of trading for a Gonzalez and parting with Jordan Danks, Hudson and Tyler Flowers (as a starting point) seems very ill-advised.

I'd say this is probably the best chance we will have in a while to win another title, just based on the amazing starting pitching we have. Pitching this solid doesn't come around often, so I'm still for the trading of a bat like Gonzalez. His bat could open up a lot of stuff for this offense.

 

And on a semi-related note, why is Beckham batting second? I don't get it. I mean, I understand you want a contact guy in the 2 hole so he can move the leadoff hitter over and what not, but I think it's a waste of a really, really good (potentially) bat. Beckham seems like a good 5 hitter to me. He would provide protection for Konerko (think 100% opposite of Kotsay), and wouldn't have to worry about moving guys over (or bunting) if he was there. Seems like a good fit to me.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'd say this is probably the best chance we will have in a while to win another title, just based on the amazing starting pitching we have. Pitching this solid doesn't come around often, so I'm still for the trading of a bat like Gonzalez. His bat could open up a lot of stuff for this offense.

 

And on a semi-related note, why is Beckham batting second? I don't get it. I mean, I understand you want a contact guy in the 2 hole so he can move the leadoff hitter over and what not, but I think it's a waste of a really, really good (potentially) bat. Beckham seems like a good 5 hitter to me. He would provide protection for Konerko (think 100% opposite of Kotsay), and wouldn't have to worry about moving guys over (or bunting) if he was there. Seems like a good fit to me.

 

You typed all this without a hint of who you believe would be able to hold down the 2-hole.

[TitoMB345]

You typed all this without a hint of who you believe would be able to hold down the 2-hole.

Really, I have no idea. I'm just saying I think Beckham is better suited elsewhere. But I guess what suits the team best is Beckham in the 2-hole, which just leads me back to Ozzie being okay with this lineup and KW failing to get us anything better.

[caulfield12]

I'm back to the get the best hitters the highest possible number of opportunities to bat school of thinking.

 

That means Juan Pierre at #9 and moving someone like Rios up. Ten years ago, Vizquel would have been perfect...AJ can do it, but that's really not a very good idea, either. Ramirez, certainly not in April, if ever. Teahen, see Pierre, Juan.

 

I really wouldn't mind Rios leading off and Beckham hitting 2nd. I'm sure Ozzie will have some line-up changes, but it's kind of like re-arranging the life boats on the Titanic, 1500+ people are still going to die no matter how pretty we try to make things look!

[ThunderBolt]

I'm back to the get the best hitters the highest possible number of opportunities to bat school of thinking.

 

That means Juan Pierre at #9 and moving someone like Rios up. Ten years ago, Vizquel would have been perfect...AJ can do it, but that's really not a very good idea, either. Ramirez, certainly not in April, if ever. Teahen, see Pierre, Juan.

 

I really wouldn't mind Rios leading off and Beckham hitting 2nd. I'm sure Ozzie will have some line-up changes, but it's kind of like re-arranging the life boats on the Titanic, 1500+ people are still going to die no matter how pretty we try to make things look!

That sounds a lot like my idea of:

Rios

Beckham

Quentin

Konerko

Teahen

Jones

AJ

Ramirez

Pierre

 

It's all a matter of getting our best hitters the most at-bats. Abandon tradional lineup structure, but only to a point. We orient our offense around getting on base, and not running ourselves out of innings.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Thunderbolt

[DBAHO]

Rios has a career OBP of .330 though, not exactly fantastic leadoff material.

 

Does that mean he'd be a better option than Pierre? Possibly, but I like Rios where he is for the moment.

 

I'd even look at Alexei at the leadoff spot possibly. His plate discipline improved a hell of a lot last season.

[Ranger]

Maybe so. But they're the ones paying the salaries of Ozzie, his coaches and his players. I guess that proves how dumb they are!

 

Regardless, you don't continually insult the fans who may or may not be wrong in their criticism of their favorite team. And you don't make condescending comments about "that's why they have to get up at 4:00AM and go to work while I have this job." I'm not quite sure that's exactly what he said because of the bleeps and his accent, it certainly sounded like that. But if I heard that correctly, that comment crosses the line.

 

EDIT: Ok, I found the Ozzie quote - Here"You don't want to watch the way I manage this ballclub, be a Cub fan or talk about something else," Guillen said on Friday. "I don't want to tell people why I do stuff and why I did it. They talk about taking the bat [out of Beckham's hands], it's the seventh and the ninth inning. I've got my two best hitters [coming up], the only guys swinging the bat well right behind.

 

 

"All those idiots out there who talk about baseball, they should come here and manage for me. I don't have to explain to anybody why I do stuff. They have to get up at 4 a.m. and talk [expletive]. I'm going to run this ballclub the way I think it should be done. I'll bet they didn't talk about how we struck out 12 times and all the times we had bases loaded and didn't get a hit. They talk about how I run this ballclub! Shame on them."

 

 

It's ridiculous that he would say that.

 

 

I apologize for not reading the entire thread, so I don't know if this has been addressed or not, but:

 

When Ozzie was talking about people getting up at 4 in the morning, I believe he was talking about morning talk shows. In other words, I believe he was talking about my station, in particular, and the callers to my station. He wasn't insulting people that have regular jobs and have to wake up early for them.

 

Just wanted to clarify.

[kapkomet]

I apologize for not reading the entire thread, so I don't know if this has been addressed or not, but:

 

When Ozzie was talking about people getting up at 4 in the morning, I believe he was talking about morning talk shows. In other words, I believe he was talking about my station, in particular, and the callers to my station. He wasn't insulting people that have regular jobs and have to wake up early for them.

 

Just wanted to clarify.

 

Ya'll need to stop getting up so early.

[joeynach]

The most worrying to me is Juan Pierre. He was spraying the ball all over the place in ST. So the guy who is supposed to be the igniter failing to even stay out of double plays is worry some. His outs have been brutal, weak grounders and such. He is a career .300 hitter and his career OBP is over .333. I know its still early but why hes not getting a hit or on base 1/3 AB's is ridioclous. One of the reasons we got him was becuase of the reduction in uncertainty compared to Pods. Pods hits .250 then .300, then .272, then blah blah. Pierre hits .300 almost every year right on the dot. It would be a real shame if the 1 year he cant get it done is his first with the sox, cuz it might be his last. Ill give him a month, if hes still hitting at the mendoza line hes useless.

 

Linebrink is a waste, Randy Williams too...they are the clown car everyone knows it, mop up men. Kotsay/Jones are stop gaps for 2010 and everyone knows it. Konerko is your DH next year. Teahen im a little confused. Hes still young and relatively athletic. He should easily be able to hit .275 comfortable with 15 hrs and 65 RBI. That would make him at the worst a productive member of the team. Look at the way he cant seem to stay out of double plays and his supreme early failures at the plate is also troubling. Like I said, I will give him about a month as well. If he cant be himself (.275 hitter) after a month then he too can hit the bench. When your a professional act like one, you can have a bad game, a bad week, but u better get it together after a month or this whole town will be calling for a lot more Nix.

Edited April 12, 2010 by joeynach

[iamshack]

I can't believe how quickly all this negativity has wrapped it's tentacles around us after just 6 games. I feel like to be honest, we have suffered quite a bit from just rotten luck. We've led every game, we've had opportunities in every game to win, we just have not gotten the bounces to go out way. If this had been 2 series' in the middle of July, I don't think many think twice about it...but since it was the first 6 games of the year, it's being incredibly over-scrutinzed.

 

We need to keep a level head here, including the Ozzeroo.

[Balta1701]

I can't believe how quickly all this negativity has wrapped it's tentacles around us after just 6 games. I feel like to be honest, we have suffered quite a bit from just rotten luck. We've led every game, we've had opportunities in every game to win, we just have not gotten the bounces to go out way. If this had been 2 series' in the middle of July, I don't think many think twice about it...but since it was the first 6 games of the year, it's being incredibly over-scrutinzed.

 

We need to keep a level head here, including the Ozzeroo.

We're die-hard fans. We'd be just as annoyed with a series in the middle of June where we hit .160. And then Mark would take the mound, and we'd all feel a bit better.

[caulfield12]

Even today, we won, but it's that winning with a "gasp" or sigh of relief at the end because of a mistake made by our opponent.

 

Usually, that's the way the Twins would beat us, unforced errors.

 

There still continues to be something of a cloud over Jenks. He did get some of his pitches in the 95-96 MPH range, but he's just not as intimidating a presence as he once was...then again, he's better than any Indians reliever (except when they're pitching against us).

 

It feels a heckuva lot better than being 1-5, that's all I know. Huge psychological lift before the team flight to HELL (aka Toronto). I'd be very happy with just winning 1/4 there and then taking 2/3 from the Indians at Progressive to even things up with them.

Edited April 12, 2010 by caulfield12

[greg775]

We're die-hard fans. We'd be just as annoyed with a series in the middle of June where we hit .160. And then Mark would take the mound, and we'd all feel a bit better.

 

That's true.

I felt a lot more calm watching the game today. For whatever reason, my expectations for the team have been lowered greatly with our play in that first homestand.