Polish president, Dignitaries killed in plane crash

[Balta1701]

Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of the country's highest military and civilian leaders died on Saturday when the presidential plane crashed as it came in for a landing in thick fog in western Russia, killing 96, officials said.

 

Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev, which was taking the president, his wife and staff to events marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.

 

The crash devastated the upper echelons of Poland's political and military establishments. On board were the army chief of staff, national bank president, deputy foreign minister, army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, deputy parliament speaker, civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers, the Polish foreign ministry said.

 

It was not expected to directly affect the functioning of Polish government, however: Poland's president is commander in chief of its armed forces but the position's domestic duties are chiefly symbolic. The prime minister and other top government ministers were not aboard the plane.

 

Poland has long discussed replacing the planes that carry the country's leaders but said they lacked the funds. The presidential Tu-154 had been overhauled in December in Russia, officials said.

Kind of always think these sorts of things are possible but then are shocked when they actually do happen.

[Rex Kickass]

This is something that's truly stunning. Do you think Obama and Biden are allowed to fly together on the same plane?

[kapkomet]

This is something that's truly stunning. Do you think Obama and Biden are allowed to fly together on the same plane?

 

 

I don't understand.

[LittleHurt05]

f***. I can't wait to hear my old man's thoughts on this. I dont know why the president would be flying on a 26 year old Tupelov plane instead of a newer Boeing/Airbus or something.

[flippedoutpunk]

This is something that's truly stunning. Do you think Obama and Biden are allowed to fly together on the same plane?

 

i doubt it, could you imagine if something happened to both of them, holy moly that would be insane!

[Rex Kickass]

I don't understand.

Do you think they let Obama and Biden fly together on a regular basis? Or do you think they make them take separate planes and separate routings if they are travelling to the same place? Sorta like they take one cabinet member in the chain of presidential succession and put them in an undisclosed location during the State of the Union?

[MattZakrowski]

If I recall correctly, the president and the vp don't fly together.

[kapkomet]

Do you think they let Obama and Biden fly together on a regular basis? Or do you think they make them take separate planes and separate routings if they are travelling to the same place? Sorta like they take one cabinet member in the chain of presidential succession and put them in an undisclosed location during the State of the Union?

 

 

I guess I didn't realize the VP was on the same plane. Of course, they don't let them travel together. In fact, there's usually two presidential planes for the president alone for security reasons.

[Balta1701]

f***. I can't wait to hear my old man's thoughts on this. I dont know why the president would be flying on a 26 year old Tupelov plane instead of a newer Boeing/Airbus or something.

Poland has long discussed replacing the planes that carry the country's leaders but said they lacked the funds. The presidential Tu-154 had been overhauled in December in Russia, officials said.

[lostfan]

I guess I didn't realize the VP was on the same plane. Of course, they don't let them travel together. In fact, there's usually two presidential planes for the president alone for security reasons.

Don't they call the VP's plane Air Force 2? (I forget)

[kapkomet]

Don't they call the VP's plane Air Force 2? (I forget)

 

 

I think. But the spare AF1 (which isn't AF1 when the president is not on it) usually goes whereever the president goes.

[justBLAZE]

I was born and raised there so this touches me a little more than most of you, it is a sad day for the country of Poland and all Polish people around.

 

The Polish and Russian relations were always pretty intense in major part due to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

 

This is why the whole delegations were headed to Russia in a first place, for a memorial of what happened in 1940, now there is another massacre that will be remembered on this day in the same place.

 

In Poland there is no vicepresident or so to speak, as soon as something happens to President the speaker of the house is in charge of the country and he appoints new election (the current speaker of the house was a favorite to win the election anyway).

 

It is beyond me however how they put some of the elite top leaders on the same plane, President his Wife and top 5 generals who were in charge of army, navy, air force and special forces were all on that plane among many other who lost their lives.

[southsider2k5]

Out of morbid curiousity, any conspiracy talk yet? Usually with something this big, people start to talk.

[justBLAZE]

Out of morbid curiousity, any conspiracy talk yet? Usually with something this big, people start to talk.

 

Between the regular folks, yes, however I've been following national media here and Polish media no one seems to be questioning the fact it was an accident.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I think. But the spare AF1 (which isn't AF1 when the president is not on it) usually goes whereever the president goes.

AF 2 is for the VP, that is correct.

 

There are Two AF1s but only one flies under the moniker of AF1, the other as a regular airplane identifier until the President is on board. I watched a special on AF1 a while back. it was pretty interesting. Basically, two are flown for various reasons: backup if there is problem with one, decoy, you get the idea. Both are exactly identical.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Athomeboy_2000

[Rex Kickass]

Between the regular folks, yes, however I've been following national media here and Polish media no one seems to be questioning the fact it was an accident.

 

The BBC last night was mentioning that they were trying to land in extremely poor visibility and the tower recommended diverting to a different airport and the pilot refused.

 

This still really does suck all around.

[LittleHurt05]

I'm 1st generation Pole born here, so definitely big deal in my family as well. From what I've read, it basically sounds like the pilot try to land in bad foggy conditions when he was advised not to. I heard that an earlier Russian plane had been diverted to a different airport, but this Polish pilot refused to. Why he would do that, when he has so many higher-level people on the plane is questionable.

 

The president isn't nowhere near as involved in running the government as the prime minister is. However, almost all of the military's chief of staff was on the plane, so re-establishing leadship in the military is gonna be a much bigger blow to the country. Probably won't see that many important people all on the same plane in the future.

[CanOfCorn]

On the Today Show this morning, they were saying that the Polish President had a history of pushing his pilots to fly in harsh conditions...actually leading to some arguments. They didn't say that's what happened here, but now that the Black Box has been found, we'll see what happened. Horrible, horrible day for Poland.

[FlaSoxxJim]

On the Today Show this morning, they were saying that the Polish President had a history of pushing his pilots to fly in harsh conditions...actually leading to some arguments. They didn't say that's what happened here, but now that the Black Box has been found, we'll see what happened. Horrible, horrible day for Poland.

 

Interesting. Sort of harsh to say it, and it won't change what happened, but I hope the flight recorder does indicate the pilot had some objections to trying to land that may have been overruled. That may alleviate some of the animosity the citizenry must have toward the pilot.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Sad to say, but with as much air travel the US presidents make, one day a crash or major malfunction is going to happen.

[BigSqwert]

Unfortunately, flying all of those important people on the same flight isn't going to change the 'dumb' stigma that the Poles have been stuck with.

[Rex Kickass]

Sad to say, but with as much air travel the US presidents make, one day a crash or major malfunction is going to happen.

 

There was a major malfunction on the Obama plane during the campaign, one of the inflatable escape ramps inflated in the nose cone, making steering extremely difficult.

[Texsox]

It is beyond me however how they put some of the elite top leaders on the same plane, President his Wife and top 5 generals who were in charge of army, navy, air force and special forces were all on that plane among many other who lost their lives.

 

 

Here the "other party" depending on President would complain about the cost of flying two planes.

[kapkomet]

Here the "other party" depending on President would complain about the cost of flying two planes.

 

 

Holy crap, get off your high horse. Did anyone do that?

[Texsox]

Holy crap, get off your high horse. Did anyone do that?

 

Not if there was an accident, but just as a general rule. If Pelosi and Clinton wouldn't fly with Obama to something, yeah there would be s*** said about two planes taking them. In reverse the Dems would be all over the wastefulness and the "greenhouse gases". Both sides try to make s*** out of everything.