NBA playoffs thread

[MHizzle85]

They have some of the biggest pricks not only on their team but in the league. Martin, Smith, etc.. Billips is really the only guy that is pure class as a player.

It was blatant that without Karl they were losing discipline. Smith looked like he wasn't interested in playing at all last night, Martin with the stupid fouls, even Billups losing his composure a bit.

 

Denver's my 2nd favorite team in the league, when they have their heads on they could be the best team in the West but when they fall apart, they fall hard.

[Balta1701]

Tweet for Bosh!

The five-time All-Star posted two messages to his almost 96,000 followers Friday night, ending a week of silence with a post that read: "Been wanting to ask. Where should I go next season and why?"

 

About an hour later, Bosh posted a second message that read: "Ok... Let me rephrase the question. Should I stay or should I go?"

 

[southsider2k5]

He is #1 on my realistic list.

[fathom]

One of Bernstein's sources told him that Bosh to OKC is a very real possibility. I think he'd be nuts to go there, as Durant is such a ball hog! I was extremely underwhelmed by Durant during the LAL/OKC series.

[thxfrthmmrs]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/...ency-class.html

 

obviously the other free agents would have to be more attractive if for no other reason than age, but Dirk would be a perfect fit for us as well

 

 

absolutely love the idea that the bulls will make a run at Dirk, he is exactly the missing piece the bulls were looking for, a big man scorer who can shoot the three and stretch the defense for noah and rose. he is not a bruising defender, but we got noah and taj when we need to shut someone down and put dirk at SF

 

Remember the days Kevin Pritchard of Portland was in love in Hinrich? i would not hesitate to ship kirk and a future first rounder to portland for a guy like Martell Webster, who is just as good a defender as Kirk at the guard position, except that he is taller, stronger, and more athletic, so he can effectively switches to guard lebron if he has to. Plus he can also hit the three ball, i can see him playing well with deng and rose at the perimeter.

 

with the money we save by trading kirk, we can sign more pieces such as theo ratliff, matt boner, steve blake, and resign flip murray,

 

A team of noah, dirk, deng, webster, and rose, with ratliff, taj, JJ, murrary, and blake off the bench, we could hang in here with the best in the league, and can make a run for championship next year.

[thxfrthmmrs]

and plus, dirk would be dumb not to consider the bulls, given the fact that the bulls are young and talented, and the bulls is a team that fits him well, he needs the bulls and the bulls need him.

[DBAHO]

Why would Portland want Hinrich when they already have Andre Miller?

 

If they were going to acquire Hinrich, it would have been last off-season.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Why would Portland want Hinrich when they already have Andre Miller?

 

If they were going to acquire Hinrich, it would have been last off-season.

 

 

i thought miller would be a free agent, but oh well.

 

but that's just an example, i am sure portland would trade webster for a future first rounder anyways since they have a very good young small forward in Batum, with roy, rudy, and bayless at the 2 guard, webster would basically come off the bench for them, for $5 million a year.

 

the main point is to find a taker for kirk, if we can, then the aforementioned lineup would be very realistic. If some team, let's say the toronto raptors or the dallas mavericks would do a sign and trade with kirk and JJ or kirk and deng for their superstar free agent, it would be a dream come true for the bulls.

Edited May 2, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[Steve9347]

See, I just find this funny comming from you of all people Steve.

Yeah, good call man. Defending Jamal Crawford is so out of character for me. His having done nothing wrong ever compared to Chris Henry is a great example. stfu.

[SoxAce]

and plus, dirk would be dumb not to consider the bulls, given the fact that the bulls are young and talented, and the bulls is a team that fits him well, he needs the bulls and the bulls need him.

 

He loves Rose, and already commented about our team on the rise. Personally I still don't see him leaving Dallas, but out of all the FA out there, next to LeBron (who fits with anyone) he is probably the best fit for the Bulls and for Rose's development. I don't think he's a max guy at age 33 either personally but he'll get his $$. Another team I could very well see him in (more-so than us) is Phoenix if Amar'e goes. He and Nash are BFFs.

 

Yeah, good call man. Defending Jamal Crawford is so out of character for me. His having done nothing wrong ever compared to Chris Henry is a great example. stfu.

 

I wasn't just talking about Chris Henry either sunshine.

Edited May 2, 2010 by SoxAce

[DBAHO]

i thought miller would be a free agent, but oh well.

 

but that's just an example, i am sure portland would trade webster for a future first rounder anyways since they have a very good young small forward in Batum, with roy, rudy, and bayless at the 2 guard, webster would basically come off the bench for them, for $5 million a year.

 

the main point is to find a taker for kirk, if we can, then the aforementioned lineup would be very realistic. If some team, let's say the toronto raptors or the dallas mavericks would do a sign and trade with kirk and JJ or kirk and deng for their superstar free agent, it would be a dream come true for the bulls.

Out of those that you've mentioned, I think Fernandez is the one they'd move, because he's complaining that he should be a starter, Webster is quite happy to be a role player for them.

 

I just don't see the Bulls being able to move Hinrich because;

 

1 - They'll want value for him, as they have shown that they won't deal him for expiring contracts.

2 - There are a lot better or even comparable players to Hinrich that you can just sign in FA (for the MLE for teams over the cap also).

 

The Raptors already have Calderon and Jack at the PG spots, so can't see them having any interest in Hinrich. Dallas should give the keys to Beaubois from next season onwards.

[DBAHO]

One of Bernstein's sources told him that Bosh to OKC is a very real possibility. I think he'd be nuts to go there, as Durant is such a ball hog! I was extremely underwhelmed by Durant during the LAL/OKC series.

You add Bosh to that team, they become an instant title contender (I think he'd have a better chance at winning a championship with them than the Bulls FWIW).

 

I think the guy just wants to win. If he wants to be the main man still, he'll stick with Toronto.

[Steve9347]

I wasn't just talking about Chris Henry either sunshine.

So you just made a pointless, baseless comment to seem like a cool guy?

[thxfrthmmrs]

Out of those that you've mentioned, I think Fernandez is the one they'd move, because he's complaining that he should be a starter, Webster is quite happy to be a role player for them.

 

I just don't see the Bulls being able to move Hinrich because;

 

1 - They'll want value for him, as they have shown that they won't deal him for expiring contracts.

2 - There are a lot better or even comparable players to Hinrich that you can just sign in FA (for the MLE for teams over the cap also).

 

The Raptors already have Calderon and Jack at the PG spots, so can't see them having any interest in Hinrich. Dallas should give the keys to Beaubois from next season onwards.

 

again, i am just throwing out examples,

 

dallas might not be a suitable team for either deng or jj and kirk, but i disagree with you on the raptors.

 

Calderon has fallen out of favor in toronto this season, much of it due to his terrible defense, and jack is not an option to start for the long term. With kirk, you get a versatile pg/sg who can check either guard position for them, i bet their goal heading toward this offseason is to look for a defensive specialist, especially at the guard position while kirk is a bit more expensive, he fits the bill perfectly for them. a backcourt trio calderon, kirk, and derozan would be more ideal than jack, calderon and derozan. i can see them trading jack away if the trade for kirk does take place.

 

think about it, if bosh says he wants to play for chicago (could be his top preference along with miami or okc), and he wants max money, toronto has no chance to keep him and the only way is to do a sign and trade, since they don't want to lose him for nothing, and lets be honest, no free agent player would want to sign with them, and they have no cap space, so they would look to recover as many pieces and value as they could.

 

another potential trade partner for deng and hinrich is miami, IF wade chooses to leave miami. who has no depth whatsoever at small forward and point guard, and can use players like deng and hinrich. If wade wants to leave miami, i have a hard time imagining two superstars, lets say joe johnson and amare wants to sign with them, i would say they only have chance to sign one good player like amare, boozer, or lee. doing a sign and trade of wade for kirk and deng is ideal for them, since deng is easily the second most talented SF they can get this summer besides lebron, and it doesn't hurt to have kirk if they can't get a point guard this summer. a trio of amare, deng and kirk plus another 8-10 million salary guy is a pretty good return for them this summer IF they failed to resign wade.

Edited May 2, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[DBAHO]

but i disagree with you on the raptors.

 

Calderon has fallen out of favor in toronto this season, much of it due to his terrible defense, and jack is not an option to start for the long term. With kirk, you get a versatile pg/sg who can check either guard position for them, i bet their goal heading toward this offseason is to look for a defensive specialist, especially at the guard position while kirk is a bit more expensive, he fits the bill perfectly for them. a backcourt trio calderon, kirk, and derozan would be more ideal than jack, calderon and derozan. i can see them trading jack away if the trade for kirk does take place.

 

think about it, if bosh says he wants to play for chicago (could be his top preference along with miami or okc), and he wants max money, toronto has no chance to keep him and the only way is to do a sign and trade, since they don't want to lose him for nothing, and lets be honest, no free agent player would want to sign with them, and they have no cap space, so they would look to recover as many pieces and value as they could.

 

another potential trade partner for deng and hinrich is miami, IF wade chooses to leave miami. who has no depth whatsoever at small forward and point guard, and can use players like deng and hinrich. If wade wants to leave miami, i have a hard time imagining two superstars, lets say joe johnson and amare wants to sign with them, i would say they only have chance to sign one good player like amare, boozer, or lee. doing a sign and trade of wade for kirk and deng is ideal for them, since deng is easily the second most talented SF they can get this summer besides lebron, and it doesn't hurt to have kirk if they can't get a point guard this summer. a trio of amare, deng and kirk plus another 8-10 million salary guy is a pretty good return for them this summer IF they failed to resign wade.

Doesn't Jack basically give you what Kirk Hinrich gives you though (for about $4M less also)?

 

Jack - 11.4PPG, 5 ASS's, 48% FG%, 2 TO's.

Hinrich - 10.9PPG, 4.5 ASS's, 40.9% FG%, 1.5 TO's.

 

If I'm Colangelo, if Bosh goes to Chicago and they do a sign and trade, I'd ask for Deng instead of Hinrich. Yes they already have Hedo, but they could move him back to a 6th man, or move to him to PF and Bargnani to C. Deng gets criticized on here like Juan Pierre hitting leadoff, but he's a 25 year old player who still probably hasn't hit his best, and he's a scorer.

 

I don't think Wade is going to leave Miami this off-season, and I think Amare or Bosh ends up joining him in Miami for sure. And instead of using their cap savings in Deng or Hinrich in that scenario, Pat Riley may decide to just keep his cap space for 2011, put another season into Beasley to see if he improves and try to get another superstar to replace Wade. Adding Deng or Hinrich to that team doesn't turn them into a contender. They may as well rebuild.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Doesn't Jack basically give you what Kirk Hinrich gives you though (for about $4M less also)?

 

Jack - 11.4PPG, 5 ASS's, 48% FG%, 2 TO's.

Hinrich - 10.9PPG, 4.5 ASS's, 40.9% FG%, 1.5 TO's.

 

If I'm Colangelo, if Bosh goes to Chicago and they do a sign and trade, I'd ask for Deng instead of Hinrich. Yes they already have Hedo, but they could move him back to a 6th man, or move to him to PF and Bargnani to C. Deng gets criticized on here like Juan Pierre hitting leadoff, but he's a 25 year old player who still probably hasn't hit his best, and he's a scorer.

 

I don't think Wade is going to leave Miami this off-season, and I think Amare or Bosh ends up joining him in Miami for sure. And instead of using their cap savings in Deng or Hinrich in that scenario, Pat Riley may decide to just keep his cap space for 2011, put another season into Beasley to see if he improves and try to get another superstar to replace Wade. Adding Deng or Hinrich to that team doesn't turn them into a contender. They may as well rebuild.

 

if i was Colangelo, i would take kirk over jack in a heartbeat despite a $4 million salary difference. You can see kirk was an above average point guard before rose arrived, and being a point guard most of his career, he had trouble adjusting to the 2 guard position. if kirk was to be traded to the raptors, i can see him starting with derozan, with calderon coming off the bench (he is too much of a defensive liability, more suitable as a 6th man), and shift him to the 2 guard position when calderon comes in. plus, he is a much better defender than jack, can defend both guard positions well, and that is what the raptors are lacking. I can see kirk geting 15 and 6 per game nightly, while shooting 40% from behind the arc for them. Jack is really a bench player for even a bad team, and kirk has proven he can play at a high level before. P.S. depends on if the bulls had already sign a big name free agent, i.e. JJ or wade, they wouldn't have cap space to take on bosh, so a trade of deng would require hinrich in the deal also, just to match the salary.

 

and you mentioned deng's fit with the raptors, and i believe he fits in quite well with the raptors if they lose bosh. the raptors are full of white players with no athleticism, i.e bargnani, turk, calderon, nesterovic. if they get deng, he could be a poor man's shawn marion for colangelo, running the floor well, and rebounding well for a small or power forward. i really see a deal of deng and hinrich for bosh working well for both teams if bosh wants to come to chicago.

 

as for wade, i agree with you, he's probably not leaving miami. but if he does, i can't imagine anyone wanting to go there since lebron won't be there for sure, and their best player is michael beasley. hinrich probably don't fit them as much as he fits toronto (and cp3 is available next summer), but deng and a 1st rounder and perhaps a three way trade including kirk to another team for a couple of young players or expiring contracts to the heat is a pretty good return for wade if he wants to come here.

 

These are all speculations on my part. there are thousands of possibilities that could take place this summer. the point is, if the bulls can get rid of either deng or hinrich, preferably hinrich, and get a big man like dirk or bosh, and/or wade, and add a couple of nice pieces with the MLE, i really like our chances going into next year.

 

one thing is for sure, THE BULLS WILL ADD A BIG NAME FREE AGENT THIS SUMMER. the organization basically wasted this season by not resigning Gordon and trading away salmons mid season to make a run at a big name player this off season, if Paxon and Forman fails to come away with a big name, it would really upset the fans and Jerry Reinsdorf and would really guarantee them a one way ticket out of Chicago, and most importantly, it would be humiliating to the great city of Chicago. so expect a great player to team up with Noah and Rose next season, and there is definitely something to be excited about this summer.

[Balta1701]

one thing is for sure, THE BULLS WILL ADD A BIG NAME FREE AGENT THIS SUMMER. the organization basically wasted this season by not resigning Gordon and trading away salmons mid season to make a run at a big name player this off season, if Paxon and Forman fails to come away with a big name, it would really upset the fans and Jerry Reinsdorf and would really guarantee them a one way ticket out of Chicago, and most importantly, it would be humiliating to the great city of Chicago. so expect a great player to team up with Noah and Rose next season, and there is definitely something to be excited about this summer.

There's still a possible issue even if you're wrong. The Bulls have landed a "big name Free Agent" when they've had the money to offer a max deal before. But not every big name free agent winds up being worth their money. Assuming Wade stays healthy, Lebron, Wade, and Bosh are almost certain to be worth their contract. But if you whiff on those 3...then you wind up giving a ton of money to what is likely going to be a 2nd tier guy because you're out of a job if you don't land a free agent addition.

 

So, you dump a $16 million deal on Amare and he spends 1/2 of the deal hurt. Ditto Boozer. Or Joe Johnson, and he's decent but in general overpaid for the production you get out of him. What happens? Your team is suddenly up against the luxury tax once it has to sign Noah next year, and JR looks and sees a team that isn't good enough to get past the #4 spot in the East so why should he go into tax territory?

 

Great example of this effect is the Pistons last year. They had money to spend so they signed 2 of the better FA's on the market to big deals. Both deals looked awful at the time and look worse now.

[thxfrthmmrs]

There's still a possible issue even if you're wrong. The Bulls have landed a "big name Free Agent" when they've had the money to offer a max deal before. But not every big name free agent winds up being worth their money. Assuming Wade stays healthy, Lebron, Wade, and Bosh are almost certain to be worth their contract. But if you whiff on those 3...then you wind up giving a ton of money to what is likely going to be a 2nd tier guy because you're out of a job if you don't land a free agent addition.

 

So, you dump a $16 million deal on Amare and he spends 1/2 of the deal hurt. Ditto Boozer. Or Joe Johnson, and he's decent but in general overpaid for the production you get out of him. What happens? Your team is suddenly up against the luxury tax once it has to sign Noah next year, and JR looks and sees a team that isn't good enough to get past the #4 spot in the East so why should he go into tax territory?

 

Great example of this effect is the Pistons last year. They had money to spend so they signed 2 of the better FA's on the market to big deals. Both deals looked awful at the time and look worse now.

 

even if i am right or even if i am wrong?

 

I am just saying the bulls will for sure sign a big name free agent, whether it be the big 3, or other players like boozers, JJ, amare, dirk if he opts out. In any off season other than this one, those four players can easily be the best players available, and there are other solid second tier players available like lee, ray allen, and shaq. all i am saying is the bulls are not guaranteed to sign either one of the big 3, but they would for sure sign one or two of the other big names available, and/or another solid second tier players or some solid role players.

 

btw, i disagree with you on Joe Johnson. if you talk to scouts and GMs around the league, and ask them to name 2 most underrated players in the league, i am sure JJ would be mentioned 95% of the time. the guy just does not get enough credit for what he does, probably because he plays for a small market team. the guy can handle, shoot at a high percentage, score, pass, solid defender at the 2 guard, and is quick enough to guard the point as well. he would fit in nicely with the bulls in that the bulls need a big 2 guard, need someone who can shoot and defend, and take the scoring load away from d rose, and a guy who doesn't need the ball in his hand all the time to play well. I would say after dirk, bosh, and lebron, he is the best fit player for the bulls, even better than wade, because wade and rose are similar players, both need the ball in their hands most of the time to play well, wade is not the threat from the perimeter like JJ is. i would not complain at all if the bulls end up signing JJ and boozer or david lee.

 

injuries can happen to anyone in the league. the big name players the bulls are after are not particularly injury prones. it's not like the bulls are going after T-mac, yao ming, michael redd, or kenyon martin who can only stay healthy for half a season. oh yea, boozer played 78 games, amare play 82 games, wade played 77, so i am sure the bulls or any other team would not shy away from going after them despite their injuries a couple years ago.

 

lastly, i dont know if you can justify a comparison of the pistons situation last season with the bulls situation this season. the pistons had money to spend last year, but the free agent class was so weak, they end up paying for two 1 dimensional players who are shot happy and do not fit in well their defensive mindset. they made some very bad moves last year, but you can't compare Charlie V and ben gordon to david lee and joe johnson. This free agent class is much better than last year's. I can't remember who the best free agent available was last off season, but whoever that was, he was wise enough not to sign with the pistons knowing they were only a shell of their past glories, with couple of players whose best days are behind them, and the rest are underachievers. but the bulls are a very young and up and coming team, with a future superstar point guard and a future all star center. if i was the pistons, i would be wise enough to know that they were in rebuilding mode and trade rip hamilton and prince for young players or draft picks, develop them, and make a run at the free agent class this summer.

Edited May 2, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[Balta1701]

There is a level of talent in the NBA where, if the guy gets a max contract, he's not a liability under any circumstances. James, Wade, Bosh, Bryant, Rose, Durant, Anthony, Howard, Williams, Paul if he's healthy, probably a handful of others.

 

Then, there's a tier of guys who aren't liabilities...if your owner is willing to go way over the Tax to pay for them. They can't carry a team on their own, but if you give them a max deal, the only way they kill you is if you won't go over the Tax. Gasol, Nowitzki, I'd put Amare, Johnson at this level, and a lot of others.

 

Then, there's a tier of guys who are solid players, but if you give them a big deal, even if you're way over the tax, you're happy to move them. You know a lot of these guys. Gordon, Deng, Hinrich...these are great examples.

 

Here's the biggest problem. If you sign any of the top tier guys to a max contract, you've probably underpaid per win. But there are 30 teams in the NBA competing for 10 guys, and each team can afford 2-3 max contracts without hitting the cap level.

 

What winds up happening is...the teams which don't land a top level guy wind up giving big contracts to the next 2 levels down. Then...you wind up in the ultimate crap scenario, which is where so many NBA teams have spent time...as somewhere between poor and good teams, but with salaries so high that they can't afford to add another piece.

 

It's those 2nd and 3rd tier players that are killing NBA owners right now. Teams can't commit to fully rebuilding without having the stadium empty and revenue disappear, so if they have cap space, they feel compelled to use it. On the other hand...if they're going out and signing a guy who can't on his own put them over the top, they're almost always overpaying these days, and that's how a team winds up in trouble.

[MurcieOne]

What winds up happening is...the teams which don't land a top level guy wind up giving big contracts to the next 2 levels down. Then...you wind up in the ultimate crap scenario, which is where so many NBA teams have spent time...as somewhere between poor and good teams, but with salaries so high that they can't afford to add another piece.

 

It's those 2nd and 3rd tier players that are killing NBA owners right now. Teams can't commit to fully rebuilding without having the stadium empty and revenue disappear, so if they have cap space, they feel compelled to use it. On the other hand...if they're going out and signing a guy who can't on his own put them over the top, they're almost always overpaying these days, and that's how a team winds up in trouble.

 

Well said.

[thxfrthmmrs]

There is a level of talent in the NBA where, if the guy gets a max contract, he's not a liability under any circumstances. James, Wade, Bosh, Bryant, Rose, Durant, Anthony, Howard, Williams, Paul if he's healthy, probably a handful of others.

 

Then, there's a tier of guys who aren't liabilities...if your owner is willing to go way over the Tax to pay for them. They can't carry a team on their own, but if you give them a max deal, the only way they kill you is if you won't go over the Tax. Gasol, Nowitzki, I'd put Amare, Johnson at this level, and a lot of others.

 

Then, there's a tier of guys who are solid players, but if you give them a big deal, even if you're way over the tax, you're happy to move them. You know a lot of these guys. Gordon, Deng, Hinrich...these are great examples.

 

Here's the biggest problem. If you sign any of the top tier guys to a max contract, you've probably underpaid per win. But there are 30 teams in the NBA competing for 10 guys, and each team can afford 2-3 max contracts without hitting the cap level.

 

What winds up happening is...the teams which don't land a top level guy wind up giving big contracts to the next 2 levels down. Then...you wind up in the ultimate crap scenario, which is where so many NBA teams have spent time...as somewhere between poor and good teams, but with salaries so high that they can't afford to add another piece.

 

It's those 2nd and 3rd tier players that are killing NBA owners right now. Teams can't commit to fully rebuilding without having the stadium empty and revenue disappear, so if they have cap space, they feel compelled to use it. On the other hand...if they're going out and signing a guy who can't on his own put them over the top, they're almost always overpaying these days, and that's how a team winds up in trouble.

 

there is no formula or statistics to prove your point. of all the guys you mentioned who are second tiers who can't win on their own, gasol won a championship with kobe, dirk has reach the playoffs 10 years in a row, been to the finals, and he was the best player on every of those teams. Amare and JJ are regular playoff participants. maybe they are a derrick rose and joakim noah away from winning a championship? Meanwhile, of the guys you mentioned who are "no liabilities," melo has never done well in the playoffs, dwill been to conference finals once, bosh only been to playoffs once, CP3's team had been mediocre the past two years. there is no clear line drawn that states this guy is worth signing because he will win you the title while this guy is not.

 

No single player is talented enough to win a championship on their own, not even the great lebron james, or kobe bryant, that's why they need shaq, jamision, gasol, who are great second options and are well deserved of the money they make. even jordan needed a sidekick to win 6 titles. great examples are celtics and pistons. KG, ray allen, PP has not done well in the playoffs on their own, and prior to their tenure with the C's, KG had terrible success in the post season, and coming off a injury plagued season, ray hasn't done well either, and pierce is coming off a season in which he played only half of it, i assume they could be deemed as liabilities too due to their injuries, and not being about to carry a team on his own, yet they all make $14-16 million a year. if you put all of them together, they final got their rings. Now i know you would say KG is a liability to his team because he had been bother by knee troubles last two years, but to be fair, he had played 14-15 season already, a lot of mileage on his legs, but that is not the case for JJ, lee, boozer, amare, and even dirk. the piston's run a couple years ago were full of second and third tier players who has proven they can't do anything on their own, yet billups, sheed, rip, and big ben all make around $12 million. Yet they find a right chemistry to win. Point is, you do not need a player who can "carry a team on his own" to win. There is nothing wrong in paying big money to them if you feel they are the right players.

 

If you say that "guys are killing the NBA because they make big money and can't carry a team on his own", then you are mistaken my friend. Look at the great Karl Malone and Gary Payton, they are 2 of the top 50 players in the history of the league, yet at the end of their career, they joined the Lakers in hopes of winning a championship. would you say they were overpaid and they killed the league because they can't carry a team on their own? i dont think so. what about KG, pierce, and allen? the pistons core? they all deserved their salary even if they proved in the past they can't win on their own.

 

sure there are guys like T-mac, marbury, francis, allan houston, who made big money, and hasn't done a crap for their team, but how do you distinguish them from the likes of gasol, jamsion, billlups, shaq, JJ, kg, ray allen, etc who has proven they can win with the right players around them?

 

Their is a great disparity, however, between the aforementioned players and guys like gordon and charlie V. there is a big difference in paying $10-12 million to those players who are not even all stars and their games is full of flaws, and paying $14-$16 to JJ, amare, and boozer.

 

all in all, my point is there is little disparity between the so call players who aren't liabilities and can win on their own and the players who earn big money and can't win on their own. no player is good enough to win on their own. that's why teams target big names in the free agent market or in trades in hopes of pairing up the right players to win a championship. The bulls should not be hesitant to go after players this off season, but they are not complete, and the players available are proven allstars, not in the same level of ben gordon or charlie V. there is definitely a risk pertained to it, but so is anything in sport, even if you have lebron or kobe on your team, you are not guaranteed to win. but you never know if the bulls are indeed a bosh, a dirk , amare, or a joe johnson away from winning a championship.

Edited May 2, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[thxfrthmmrs]

What winds up happening is...the teams which don't land a top level guy wind up giving big contracts to the next 2 levels down. Then...you wind up in the ultimate crap scenario, which is where so many NBA teams have spent time...as somewhere between poor and good teams, but with salaries so high that they can't afford to add another piece.

 

 

lebron, wade, bosh don't win championship every season. there is only one of each of them in the league. teams has won in the past without those players, but with a solid core of players. so why only target lebron, wade and bosh, and if they are gone, then don't sign the so call "second tier players". there is a risk that a team signs lebron, wade or bosh will not win too. it all depends on fit and chemistry. i guarantee you wade will not put the bulls over the top.

 

you can compare wade and bosh to payton and malone because supposedly they are the top level, but having payton and malone didn't help their team win either.

[Leonard Zelig]

I don't pay much attention to the NBA, did the Bulls make a decision on their head coach yet?

[Palehosefan]

lebron, wade, bosh don't win championship every season. there is only one of each of them in the league. teams has won in the past without those players, but with a solid core of players. so why only target lebron, wade and bosh, and if they are gone, then don't sign the so call "second tier players". there is a risk that a team signs lebron, wade or bosh will not win too. it all depends on fit and chemistry. i guarantee you wade will not put the bulls over the top.

 

you can compare wade and bosh to payton and malone because supposedly they are the top level, but having payton and malone didn't help their team win either.

 

I don't know if you are talking about Stockton-Malone, or Payton-Malone joining the Lakers during their final days. If you are talking about Stockton-Malone, Michael Jordan was the only reason that Stockton-Malone didn't have mutiple championships.

[knightni]

Michael Jordan's the reason that Detroit, the Lakers, Cleveland, New York, Orlando, Houston, Utah, Phoenix, Seattle, Portland etc. don't have (more) championships.