NBA playoffs thread

[knightni]

if the bulls indeed gets dirk, all we need from him is 20 and 8 a night, hit some threes and get to the foul line.

 

So, you'd be happy with 20 and 8 from a 35-36 year old guy making 20 mil a year and taking up cap space that could keep the Bulls from extending Noah and/or Rose?

 

He'll be 32 this summer and 37 at the end of a 5 year deal.

[thxfrthmmrs]

but lee plays for the knicks, the east coast version of the warriors, it not hard to put up big numbers for them, look at monte ellis or al harrington for example.

 

boozer may suck as D against a bynum or gasol, but that's because the jazz center is okur, who is equally as awful on defense, if boozer comes to the bulls, he doesn't need to take on the toughest big man assignment, we got noah and taj who are very solid big men defender in their own rite. reduced defensive assignment can also increase his offensive efficiency. this is a guy who shoots 52-53% regularly in his career, the bulls need a player who can get easy baskets, what is not to like about boozer.

[WilliamTell]

So, you'd be happy with 20 and 8 from a 35-36 year old guy making 20 mil a year and taking up cap space that could keep the Bulls from extending Noah and/or Rose?

 

He'll be 32 this summer and 37 at the end of a 5 year deal.

 

I don't think Nowtizki leaves Dallas this offseason. Who's going to turn down 21 million if he's not getting 21 million from someone else?

[thxfrthmmrs]

So, you'd be happy with 20 and 8 from a 35-36 year old guy making 20 mil a year and taking up cap space that could keep the Bulls from extending Noah and/or Rose?

 

He'll be 32 this summer and 37 at the end of a 5 year deal.

 

i am just speculating on his contract, he will probably get 18-20 mil a year the first year, with declining salary each salary, to like 15 mil a year in the final year. Why would the celtics take on garnett's contract for 15 mil a year for 14 and 8? and 15 mil for paul pierce for 18 and 4? if they play individually, they can get way better numbers, but they are surrounded by talents in which they dont have to do it all, but can get it done when call upon.

 

as a bull, dirk would play with a perennial 22 ppg pg in rose, and 12 rpg center in noah, so he doesn't need to put up big numbers, in fact, anybody's number would be reduced if they are paired up with great players, look at kobe himself and kobe with shaq or gasol.

 

plus, he fits the bill for what the bulls are looking for, so what is not to like about him?

[thxfrthmmrs]

I don't think Nowtizki leaves Dallas this offseason. Who's going to turn down 21 million if he's not getting 21 million from someone else?

 

 

he has made plenty of $$ over his career, he is at the stage where he wants to win, and he wants to be at a place where he can have the best chance to win, yet still pays him a decent amount of money, dallas has proven not to be that place, and the bulls is one of the few teams that fits the bill. you can plenty of veterans taking a pay cut just to be on a championship caliber team, and with dirk, the bulls would be one.

 

there is a chance he stays put, but according to his post game interview, he is really giving a though about leaving dallas.

[knightni]

but lee plays for the knicks, the east coast version of the warriors, it not hard to put up big numbers for them, look at monte ellis or al harrington for example.

 

boozer may suck as D against a bynum or gasol, but that's because the jazz center is okur, who is equally as awful on defense, if boozer comes to the bulls, he doesn't need to take on the toughest big man assignment, we got noah and taj who are very solid big men defender in their own rite. reduced defensive assignment can also increase his offensive efficiency. this is a guy who shoots 52-53% regularly in his career, the bulls need a player who can get easy baskets, what is not to like about boozer.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but rebounding is a skill that is primarily affected by who you play against, not what team you play for.

 

This is why Rodman could rebound, not because he was on a good or bad team, but because his technique was better than anyone else's. Rodman was on the same team as David Robinson - a top rebounder himself - yet he out-rebounded him. He also out rebounded Rick Mahorn with the Pistons and anyone on the Bulls when he was in Chicago.

 

Troy Murphy gets double-doubles with Danny Granger in Indiana, the same way he did with the guys in Golden State.

 

David Lee and Carlos Boozer can get similar levels of rebounds and points with any team in the league just by playing the same way they always do. Ten to 12 rebounds and 12-15 points in garbage scoring is available to any big player with good technique that will put in the work on the court.

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but rebounding is a skill that is primarily affected by who you play against, not what team you play for.

 

This is why Rodman could rebound, not because he was on a good or bad team, but because his technique was better than anyone else's. Rodman was on the same team as David Robinson - a top rebounder himself - yet he out-rebounded him. He also out rebounded Rick Mahorn with the Pistons and anyone on the Bulls when he was in Chicago.

 

Troy Murphy gets double-doubles with Danny Granger in Indiana, the same way he did with the guys in Golden State.

 

David Lee and Carlos Boozer can get similar levels of rebounds and points with any team in the league just by playing the same way they always do. Ten to 12 rebounds and 12-15 points in garbage scoring is available to any big player with good technique that will put in the work on the court.

 

 

i was not talking about his rebounding, i know that he is one of the top rebounders in the league. i was talking about his passing and scoring. he does not have a great post game, though he has developed a 18-20 foot jumper this season, and gets alot of baskets from offensive putbacks, ala noah. if he was to play for any team other than the knicks, he would not get 21-11-4 per game, i see more of a 14-9-2.5 for the bulls. he is not a true low post scorer like boozer, and if you are talking about defense, he might actually make boozer look like a dennis rodman.

 

the bulls do not need a big man who has no post game, and get 12-14 points from garbage baskets, they already have noah, and to some extent taj gibson, boozer is the true low post scorer they are looking for.

Edited May 2, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[knightni]

he has made plenty of $$ over his career, he is at the stage where he wants to win, and he wants to be at a place where he can have the best chance to win, yet still pays him a decent amount of money, dallas has proven not to be that place, and the bulls is one of the few teams that fits the bill. you can plenty of veterans taking a pay cut just to be on a championship caliber team, and with dirk, the bulls would be one.

 

there is a chance he stays put, but according to his post game interview, he is really giving a though about leaving dallas.

I think you're overvaluing the Bulls versus lower level teams. The Knicks only lost 12 more than the Bulls this year. Outside of Rose and maybe Noah, there's nothing that screams "Championship" about the Bulls that would make a free agent player accept a pay cut to join them. Sure, they could win 10 more games and get deeper into the playoffs maybe, but it's going to take more than Nowitzki, Boozer, or Lee to get anything more than that. They'd need another scoring threat from the guard position AND a power rebounder both to even sniff the Eastern Conference Finals.

 

There's no way that Nowitzki leaves Dallas to #1 take a pay cut or #2 be part of a rebuild job. He'll want to go to a team that has more of a veteran presence where he can win it all sooner, rather than later.

 

If the Bulls get Wade or LeBron PLUS one of Boozer/Bosh/A'mare, they can get there. Anyone less, doubtful.

[Quin]

Quick thought:

 

If the Bulls signed Dirk and he accepted less (honestly, at his age and career earnings, championships may come first) than what his max would be (isn't it like, $20M?) and the Bulls could sign Ray Allen on the cheap, then Rose would have monster assist numbers.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I think you're overvaluing the Bulls versus lower level teams. The Knicks only lost 12 more than the Bulls this year. Outside of Rose and maybe Noah, there's nothing that screams "Championship" about the Bulls that would make a free agent player accept a pay cut to join them. Sure, they could win 10 more games and get deeper into the playoffs maybe, but it's going to take more than Nowitzki, Boozer, or Lee to get anything more than that. They'd need a scoring threat from the guard position AND a power rebounder both to even sniff the Eastern Conference Finals.

 

There's no way that Nowitzki leaves Dallas to #1 take a pay cut or #2 be part of a rebuild job. He'll want to go to a team that has more of a veteran presence where he can win it all sooner, rather than later.

 

If the Bulls get Wade or LeBron PLUS one of Boozer/Bosh/A'mare, they can get there. Anyone less, doubtful.

 

 

dude, knightni, i am in shock, i do not even know how to respond to that. how can you compare the bulls to the knicks talent. the best players suiting up for them is toney douglass and eddy curry? while we have d rose, noah, and deng? there is no guarantee that lebron would go to new york, and if he doesn't, no one in their right mind would go there to win a championship, and even if he does, the knicks were interested in pairing up lebron with bosh or dwade. miami could be a possible destination, but the bulls and heat has about the same record the past two years, and rose and noah is getting better, wade is in his prime, we have noah and gibson to take defensive assignments from dirk, the heat has beasley? and the pat riley has rumored to deal for boozer and amare before the trade deadline, and i assume they are more interested in them. the bulls, knicks, and heat are the only ones who can throw out big money and still offer a competitive team, given that knicks does sign lebron and heats keep wade. so am I making an overstatement to say the bulls are one of dirk's top choice if he opts out? and keep in mind, dirk is 31, he can still make a lot of money, you can't expect him to take a $10 mil pay cut to sign with a team like lakers, jazz, or nuggets for $8 million who are already true contenders. it's realistic to expect him to get a $18 mil contract if he wants to sign here.

 

and i am not sure where you were during the bulls playoff run. derrick rose is still improving his perimeter game, yet he can already average 28 ppg against the Lebrons, noah avgs like 15 rpg, and gibson can easily get 7-8 rebounds, and we still need more scoring from the guard position, and rebounding from big men. if we do sign a big name free agent, we wont be stop there, we can still get a decent scoring guard for the right price.

 

p.s. i was at game 3 at UC, the MVP chants were rose was pretty loud and sweet, that might be an overstatement right now, but ESPN already has him, along with durant and wade as challengers to lebron's reign next year.

Edited May 2, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[knightni]

I'm sorry. It was my mistake to bring anything up. Enjoy your Bulls KoolAid.

 

I just hope - speaking as a realistic Bulls fan - that Jim Jones didn't make it for you.

 

 

[Palehosefan]

Just thinking of a Heat-Bulls deal that could help both teams. Hinrich for Beasley and Daquan Cook. Beasley needs a legit PG to get him open for jumpers. Heat need a legit PG. Bulls free up some cap space. Heat would still be a James Jones + #18 pick for cap space away from 3 max free agents to pair with Hinrich.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Palehosefan

[knightni]

Beasley is much more valuable than Hinrich. His potential alone makes his friendlier contract a bonus.

[SoxAce]

Quick thought:

 

If the Bulls signed Dirk and he accepted less (honestly, at his age and career earnings, championships may come first) than what his max would be (isn't it like, $20M?) and the Bulls could sign Ray Allen on the cheap, then Rose would have monster assist numbers.

 

Rose seriously needs some snipers out there. Allen, Morrow, Korver, Miller, etc.. would be ideal. Allen is probably the only starting SG though. (maybe Morrow who reminds me of a younger Allen) Rudy Fernandez will also be available in trade talks this off-season for Portland. If I were the Bulls, I would seriously give him a look.

 

Dirk is NOT worth the max. Not at his age. Period. Plus like I said.. if he does happen to leave (which I still don't see) if the Suns don't resign Amar'e, he will join his BFF Nash there IMO.

[Balta1701]

Beasley is much more valuable than Hinrich. His potential alone makes his friendlier contract a bonus.

Beasley is looking like a more rapid bust than Thomas.

[DBAHO]

VDN update;

 

Vinny Del Negro met with Bulls Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf on Sunday, but the Chicago Tribune reports that "barring a snag" he will be fired by Tuesday.

 

Del Negro has one year and $2 million remaining on his contract. The Bulls are expected to hire a head coach with more NBA experience -- suitable candidates might include Doug Collins, Lawrence Frank, Kevin McHale, Maurice Cheeks, Byron Scott and Dwane Casey.

 

Now out of those 6 names, I'd say McHale could actually have the most upside. But I'd doubt they'd target him. Casey's a pretty hot name ATM, seems as if the Clippers job is his if he wants it.

[Balta1701]

Casey's a pretty hot name ATM, seems as if the Clippers job is his if he wants it.

Great! Our front office looks like a paradise compared to that one.

[Steve9347]

Dirk is NOT worth the max. Not at his age. Period.

I don't think you realize how good Dirk is... if David Lee is going to get a max contract (bet on it) then Dirk is certainly worth the same money.

[Balta1701]

if David Lee is going to get a max contract (bet on it) then Dirk is certainly worth the same money.

Which says more about how screwed up the NBA's current system is than it does about either player.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Which says more about how screwed up the NBA's current system is than it does about either player.

 

that's why he is not getting a max contract at 16 million a year

 

maybe he would get a 5 year 55-60 million contract

 

at least he is an all star, if you want to talk about screw up, then look at pitchers in mlb, like Jeremy Bonderman and Kris Benson, guys are not even all stars, but get 10-12 million a year. or look at nfl rookies, guys haven't even taken a snap but gets a 60 million contract and 40 million guaranteed. if you want to talk about screw sports. the nba is not on top of the list

[Balta1701]

that's why he is not getting a max contract at 16 million a year

 

maybe he would get a 5 year 55-60 million contract

 

at least he is an all star, if you want to talk about screw up, then look at pitchers in mlb, like Jeremy Bonderman and Kris Benson, guys are not even all stars, but get 10-12 million a year. or look at nfl rookies, guys haven't even taken a snap but gets a 60 million contract and 40 million guaranteed. if you want to talk about screw sports. the nba is not on top of the list

Baseball is a different situation. It's really hard to compare total salary from 1 league to another. Baseball has 2x the number of games that the NBA has, baseball stadiums typically hold 2x the number of people of NBA stadiums, the NBA has a soft cap while MLB has none.

 

One mistaken contract in baseball and you're in trouble, but you can get out of it if the owner is willing to pay more or if you can trade the guy to the Red Sox/Yankees/Cubs. One mistaken contract in basketball, and you've got no options. You try to spend around that contract and you wind up in tax territory. You can't trade that contract for salary relief except in very rare circumstances, and you often have to take on even worse contracts.

 

It's really interesting to see how much a single bad contract does in each league. In the NFL, a single bad contract only really hurts you if you keep playing the guy. The Redskins and Raiders have handed out so much idiotic money it's not funny, but the Redskins look competitive every year and the Raiders might look competitive if Russel wasn't a tool, and then they hand out another large contract the next year. In MLB, a single bad contract can hurt a team, but they can still win with it if they develop guys around it, or they can find ways to dump other salaries around it (see; the Padres, Blue Jays, Pirates).

 

In the NBA, it really is a killer, because that bad max deal eats up 1/3 of your salary.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Baseball is a different situation. It's really hard to compare total salary from 1 league to another. Baseball has 2x the number of games that the NBA has, baseball stadiums typically hold 2x the number of people of NBA stadiums, the NBA has a soft cap while MLB has none.

 

One mistaken contract in baseball and you're in trouble, but you can get out of it if the owner is willing to pay more or if you can trade the guy to the Red Sox/Yankees/Cubs. One mistaken contract in basketball, and you've got no options. You try to spend around that contract and you wind up in tax territory. You can't trade that contract for salary relief except in very rare circumstances, and you often have to take on even worse contracts.

 

It's really interesting to see how much a single bad contract does in each league. In the NFL, a single bad contract only really hurts you if you keep playing the guy. The Redskins and Raiders have handed out so much idiotic money it's not funny, but the Redskins look competitive every year and the Raiders might look competitive if Russel wasn't a tool, and then they hand out another large contract the next year. In MLB, a single bad contract can hurt a team, but they can still win with it if they develop guys around it, or they can find ways to dump other salaries around it (see; the Padres, Blue Jays, Pirates).

 

In the NBA, it really is a killer, because that bad max deal eats up 1/3 of your salary.

 

 

i think you're twisting the truth a bit here. since when do the yankees and the red sox take on players who are busts do not worth the money they make? had the tigers been successful in trading dontrelle willis, jeremy bonderman to them? did the braves trade mike hampton's 20 mil/year contract to them? would the yankees and red sox show any interest in alfonso soriano now for his contract? no. the yankees and red sox trade for productive players who are worth their contract 95% of the time. I am looking at the yankees and red sox roster right now, and i do not see that they have taken on anybody who makes big money and yet at the time the teams got them, they are already busts.

 

the point is, no matter what the sport is, if the player signs a big contract, but turns out to be a bust and is no longer productive, teams aren't going to take them, unless you pay them extra money, give them your top prospect. it's the same in any in any sports, baseball is no exception.

 

i am glad that you brought up jamarcus russel, the guy has done like 1% of what david lee did in the nba, and yet he already got 40 million in guaranteed money, and guess what? he sucked ass. there was a great article about him this weekend on ESPN of how the raider fans hated him by burning his jersey, creating hate groups on facebook, blogs, whatever, because he absolute stole money from the raiders!! do you see that in the nba? oh and by the way, he makes 1/10th of the teams salary cap, and the team still have to pay 52 other players, now isn't that more screwed up.

 

you see big moneys thrown around more loosely in other sports, such as baseball and football, and teams always have to take repercussion for it. there is no way out. but u see money is thrown around more easily in baseball and football, so i am not sure why you call basketball screw up.

 

baseball and football pays players for their potential, where a first round draft pick like stratsburg demands a certain amount of money, a unknown guys like viceido gets 10 million and haven't been to the U.S. yet, a guy like jeremy bonderman gets huge contract after one decent year because the teams thought he is finally scratching the surface of his potential. in the nfl, what happens if russels doesn't help the raiders out, and they end up having the 3rd overall pick next draft and have to pay another 40 million guaranteed to a rookie? that is 80 million guaranteed right there. but the NBA rarely pays for potential alone, but they pay for performance. a guy like kawame brown was the first overall pick, or darko a second overall pick, they didn't make much money their first couples years in the league, when he is a proven bust, people won't pay them. now i come to think of it, the nba salary system is actually pretty fair.

Edited May 3, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[Balta1701]

An illustrated guide to how Carlos Boozer's defense helped the Lakers down the stretch in game 1.

[Quin]

VDN update;

 

 

 

Now out of those 6 names, I'd say McHale could actually have the most upside. But I'd doubt they'd target him. Casey's a pretty hot name ATM, seems as if the Clippers job is his if he wants it.

 

If its not Doug Collins, I will be displeased.

[kev211]

If its not Doug Collins, I will be displeased.

^