Uggghhh! 4-17

[stretchstretch]

no one here should be surprised. we all knew going into the season that we'd have an excellent pitching staff.

 

analysts, prospectus, sports news, and all of us knew the offense had a bunch of question marks, and "if only" situations, and we're now seeing the results of that realistic skepticism.

 

we have NOT ONE stud anchor player in the prime of his career on offense. Pierre, Carlos, Jones, Rios, Kotsay are projects, Vizquel is a mentor, PK is the usual question mark, and the rest are young players in development, AJ is the only guy doing what is expected of him. There will be occasional breakout days, where the talent of the vets and young guys comes through, but get prepared for many 2-3 run days.....

 

4 of Cleveland's 5 wins came against us, and they are simply not a good baseball team

 

I honestly feel the critical mistake we made was declaring PK our anchor with his post WS contract. That was our time to take $15M/Yr and capitilize and we picked the wrong horse, while MN has Mauer and Morn producing year upon year, Sizemore in CLE, and Hunter in LAA

Edited April 17, 2010 by stretchstretch

[justBLAZE]

no one here should be surprised. we all knew going into the season that we'd have an excellent pitching staff.

 

analysts, prospectus, sports news, and all of us knew the offense had a bunch of question marks, and "if only" situations, and we're now seeing the results of that realistic skepticism.

 

we have NOT ONE stud anchor player in the prime of his career on offense. Pierre, Carlos, Jones, Rios, Kotsay are projects, Vizquel is a mentor, PK is the usual question mark, and the rest are young players in development, AJ is the only guy doing what is expected of him. There will be occasional breakout days, where the talent of the vets and young guys comes through, but get prepared for many 2-3 run days.....

 

4 of Cleveland's 5 wins came against us, and they are simply not a good baseball team

 

I honestly feel the critical mistake we made was declaring PK our anchor with his post WS contract. That was our time to take $15M/Yr and capitilize and we picked the wrong horse, while MN has Mauer and Morn producing year upon year, Sizemore in CLE, and Hunter in LAA

 

AJ is having an AWFUL start to the year. So is Pierre and Alexei, and Quentin really.

 

Remember when Quentin used to go the other way back in 08, seems like so long ago, right now its HR or nothing for him. How many double plays has he hit into in the last few games.

 

The good surprises are Rios, Jones, and Teahen is exactly what I expected him to be so he's a wash. Paulie is the old self, low batting average, hit some dingers already. Kotsay should not be starting and Vizquel shouldn't even be on this team unless he's gong to make GG out of Alexei.

 

My .02 cents.

 

[chetkincaid]

All joking and sarcasm aside... I know it's still early, but I'm seriously starting to worry. The twins are looking awfully good.

[justBLAZE]

All joking and sarcasm aside... I know it's still early, but I'm seriously starting to worry. The twins are looking awfully good.

 

In fact, I'm still pretty sure the team will turn it around and have a winning season, but it all might be too late too early with the way the Twins are playing.

[caulfield12]

The Konerko move was the right one at the time.

 

Maybe KW went one year too long with Contreras AND Paulie, but nobody was disagreeing at the time, not after all the pride we had when JR welled up and Konerko handed him the baseball.

 

If you want to make any argument, it's not that we built around Konerko. He has always been merely an above average, but not great, 1B. The problem is that the offensive firepower provided by Thome and Dye has been replaced incorrectly and ineffectively.

 

It wasn't necessarily wrong to let them go, it's the moves that KW made that were horrible. Our offense would look a lot nicer with Nick Swisher in the line-up, of course, that ship sailed when the relationship deteriorated with Ozzie and the FO...but losing Swisher and giving up all that talent really was a set-back.

 

That said, Ryan Sweeney, Chris Carter, Chris Getz or even Chris Young the way he's playing now for ARIZ wouldn't make or break this Sox team. But our lack of minor league development has forced moves like Pierre, Rios and Teahen that have hamstrung our payroll to the point where we were basically helpless to sign Matsui, Damon or Vlad. Or O-Dog.

 

BTW, AJ is not doing as expected, he's been pretty close to horrendous. His offensive output was always the most predictable, along with Juan Uribe.

 

 

[daggins]

I wonder how long it takes KW to give Hudson and Flowers a try? I would think theyd have to be pretty far out of it, but judging by how things are going, that won't be an issue.

 

Now is the point in the season where I start considering trade value for our starters. I know its early, the hitters are impossibly bad, but really, it doesn't look like all those ifs that had to pan out for us to win are going to pan out. 12 games ain't much but if you don't see a pattern then I dunno what you're looking at.

[Dick Allen]

The Konerko move was the right one at the time.

 

Maybe KW went one year too long with Contreras AND Paulie, but nobody was disagreeing at the time, not after all the pride we had when JR welled up and Konerko handed him the baseball.

 

If you want to make any argument, it's not that we built around Konerko. He has always been merely an above average, but not great, 1B. The problem is that the offensive firepower provided by Thome and Dye has been replaced incorrectly and ineffectively.

 

It wasn't necessarily wrong to let them go, it's the moves that KW made that were horrible. Our offense would look a lot nicer with Nick Swisher in the line-up, of course, that ship sailed when the relationship deteriorated with Ozzie and the FO...but losing Swisher and giving up all that talent really was a set-back.

 

That said, Ryan Sweeney, Chris Carter, Chris Getz or even Chris Young the way he's playing now for ARIZ wouldn't make or break this Sox team. But our lack of minor league development has forced moves like Pierre, Rios and Teahen that have hamstrung our payroll to the point where we were basically helpless to sign Matsui, Damon or Vlad. Or O-Dog.

 

BTW, AJ is not doing as expected, he's been pretty close to horrendous. His offensive output was always the most predictable, along with Juan Uribe.

 

 

The Konerko thing I agree with completely. If he would have walked away after the WS, it would have been a huge PR hit, and even if he is slightly above average to average, what is the probability the Sox could have filled his spot with someone more productive? Doubtful if you ask me.

 

This team is just currently finding ways to lose. They will start winning some games eventually. How many they win is a good question, but I don't think we are looking at a 2007 situation here. Like was stated before, boring baseball and especially losing boring baseball isn't going to work at the box office. I think KW relaxed way too much this offseason. Its time to do something.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

I'll give Ozzie this much, Cabrera (VS RHP 214 and 276 over 3 year) and (VS LHP, 313 and 318 over 3 years) was arguably a better match-up for Peavy than Thornton.

 

However, it would have made a ton of sense to bring in Putz or Santos (two live arms) there instead, and also keep Peavy in a position to get the win.

 

And Ozzie's excuse about not wanting to have Thornton face LaPorta or Kearns (REALLY?) is crap. Thornton is one of the 2-3 best lefty set-up guys in baseball, we don't run in fear from those two guys.

 

It's not like LaPorta is Travis Hafner from 2002-2007. Ridiculous Ozzie.

 

 

[caulfield12]

The Konerko thing I agree with completely. If he would have walked away after the WS, it would have been a huge PR hit, and even if he is slightly above average to average, what is the probability the Sox could have filled his spot with someone more productive? Doubtful if you ask me.

 

This team is just currently finding ways to lose. They will start winning some games eventually. How many they win is a good question, but I don't think we are looking at a 2007 situation here. Like was stated before, boring baseball and especially losing boring baseball isn't going to work at the box office. I think KW relaxed way too much this offseason. Its time to do something.

 

But those moves are not Hudson (for Garcia), Danks (for Pierre) and Flowers at this point. We have no replacement for Teahen, except Nix or Vizquel, and we know neither of those are good long-term moves because Nix isn't an everyday player. Well, maybe we'll find out...but Ozzie will go down with Omar (as long as he's manager) while Vizquel is still on the roster before he gives Nix an everyday job again.

 

Maybe Hudson for Garcia, but we'll stick with Jones...and, as KW has proven beyond a reasonable doubt, it's close to impossible for him to find a leadoff hitter from outside of the organization.

 

Wise, Owens...Pierre? Swisher? Cabrera?

 

I'm going to keep harping on him not looking at Orlando Hudson coming into 2009 OR 2010.

 

You have to pick between Rios and Beckham for leadoff, neither are ideal. Of course, it's ironic that Chris Young and Pods are playing so well...but they're no longer in our organization.

 

I'm still thinking that losing Juan Uribe was the biggest mistake...even though it received the least amount of attention.

Edited April 18, 2010 by caulfield12

[southsideirish71]

Nice to see that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

 

If we r worried about Cabrera taking Peavy deep were in deep s***. Worry about Choo, Hafner, Sizemore. Cabrera tip ur hat move on

about 1 hour ago via txt

 

@cst_sox seriously that was the right move to make. Get ur head in the game instead of trying to be clever

about 1 hour ago via UberTwitter in reply to cst_sox

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

No ONEY.

 

Your dad was afraid of Matt Freakin' Thornton having to face Austin Kearns and fat guy...er...LaPorta, whose name he doesn't even remember.

[SoxAce]

But those moves are not Hudson (for Garcia), Danks (for Pierre) and Flowers at this point. We have no replacement for Teahen, except Nix or Vizquel, and we know neither of those are good long-term moves because Nix isn't an everyday player.

 

Teahen is the least of our worries right now offensively. He is what he is, and right now he's giving us an incredible OBP. He'll hit his average in time, not to mention he got a new contract so he's gonna be here until whomever steps in later. (Morel, FA, unknown guy we haven't drafted yet, etc..) Defensively.. you can argue. Danks would be a great #2 hitter if he cuts down on his K's but he would be good at leadoff right now too or dare I say.. De Aza. But it's way too early to just say, play these kids, trade everyone, etc.. right now. Hell Lillibridge is hitting .300+ in AAA right now so you know it's early.

[Quin]

My faith in Kenny going out to get a bat remains.

[caulfield12]

Still, I think ONE move needs to be made before this thing gets out of hand.

 

Flowers seems like he would need to play everyday...Ozzie's not going to bench Pierre yet or play DeAza over him...or give Nix playing time.

 

Danks isn't ready quite yet...it's like every possibility is a Catch-22 with Ozzie managing this team.

 

But SOMETHING needs to be done to wake this team up. I would settle for giving Danks at-bats over Kotsay, but Ozzie would never do that either. I also don't think Ozzie and KW want to deal with the distraction of AJ's contract status and Flowers getting AB's against LHP quite yet...

 

But letting Flowers play catcher part-time and DH part-time would be the best way to inject some life into this offense internally.

Edited April 18, 2010 by caulfield12

[ThunderBolt]

My faith in Kenny going out to get a bat remains.

Agreed. KW is a lot of things patient is not one of them.

[Marty34]

But those moves are not Hudson (for Garcia), Danks (for Pierre) and Flowers at this point. We have no replacement for Teahen, except Nix or Vizquel, and we know neither of those are good long-term moves because Nix isn't an everyday player. Well, maybe we'll find out...but Ozzie will go down with Omar (as long as he's manager) while Vizquel is still on the roster before he gives Nix an everyday job again.

 

Maybe Hudson for Garcia, but we'll stick with Jones...and, as KW has proven beyond a reasonable doubt, it's close to impossible for him to find a leadoff hitter from outside of the organization.

 

Wise, Owens...Pierre? Swisher? Cabrera?

 

I'm going to keep harping on him not looking at Orlando Hudson coming into 2009 OR 2010.

 

You have to pick between Rios and Beckham for leadoff, neither are ideal. Of course, it's ironic that Chris Young and Pods are playing so well...but they're no longer in our organization.

 

I'm still thinking that losing Juan Uribe was the biggest mistake...even though it received the least amount of attention.

 

Don't get too hung up on who'll leadoff. Danks and Flowers should be on the roster replacing Kotsay and Nix and at the very least one of them should be in the lineup every game with Pierre going to the bench. That's not to say Danks and Flowers are the answers, but it's become pretty clear that the answer isn't on the bench either.

[daggins]

Nah, Flowers and Danks should be in MiLB until there is an opportunity for them to play every day.

 

I mean if AJ and Pierre keep OPSing 500 then that won't be an issue, but they probably won't.

 

Hudson should be in a Sox uniform much faster.

 

 

[jphat007]

My faith in Kenny going out to get a bat remains.

 

We need a lot more than one bat to be on the twins level. A lot

[Tannerfan]

While I'm disappointed with the start, I'm really not surprised by it. I felt that with this number of changes in the lineup it was going to take some time to get things to gel. It's important to remember that all of these losses with the exception of Garcia's start in Toronto, have all been close games. And while I think getting Juan Pierre was a mistake, and batting Kotsay 5th is a really big mistake, there is time for this team to pull together and have a very good season.

I think the big fear is the Twins not just pulling away, but that they are a very good team. Probably as good as the Yankees, and better then the Red Sox and Tampa Bay. If this is the case we will not be able to catch them because they have joined the elite of the American League.

[daggins]

We need a lot more than one bat to be on the twins level. A lot

 

The Twins aren't going to be this good all year, and the discrepancies between the two teams should narrow. That said, it is definitely true that one bat isn't going to fix everything and make this a playoff/championship team. I would certainly be hesitant if I were KW, since we could upgrade at several positions instead of just one.

[daggins]

While I'm disappointed with the start, I'm really not surprised by it. I felt that with this number of changes in the lineup it was going to take some time to get things to gel. It's important to remember that all of these losses with the exception of Garcia's start in Toronto, have all been close games. And while I think getting Juan Pierre was a mistake, and batting Kotsay 5th is a really big mistake, there is time for this team to pull together and have a very good season.

I think the big fear is the Twins not just pulling away, but that they are a very good team. Probably as good as the Yankees, and better then the Red Sox and Tampa Bay. If this is the case we will not be able to catch them because they have joined the elite of the American League.

 

the Twins pitching, in particular, is playing over their abilities right now. Pavano isn't a sub-2-ERA pitcher, just like how Rauch isn't going to save 45-50 games. They aren't as good as any of those three teams, but a lot better than the Sox.

[ThunderBolt]

If we can get a big bat and a decent lefty arm, i'd feel a lot more comfortable. Making a move for a bat, makes Jones an everyday player in the OF, and puts Pierre on the bench. This makes us a fairly potent lineup assuming a lot of the slumping guys get their s*** together, and Teahen continues to get on-base.

[Reddy]

i just streamed my first SP of the year in my fantasy league. who? Fausto Carmona.

 

sigh...

[Leonard Zelig]

i just streamed my first SP of the year in my fantasy league. who? Fausto Carmona.

 

sigh...

 

What do you mean, streamed?

[Reddy]

What do you mean, streamed?

pick him up to get his start then drop him afterwards.