SteveB23 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I have been a lifelong Democrat, but because I didn't trust Obama with re. Israel, I couldn't vote for BO in good conscience. Unfortunately, it seems that my fears were (are) reality. http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0410/tobin041910.php3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 It amazes me how the plurarily of Jewish voters remain staunchly democratic despite this administration's obvious turn away from Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Is it against Isreal or just more neutral on Israel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I would say its Israel going against the rest of the world, unfortunately. You have them building new settlements in occupied territory, despite agreeing not to and you have the assassination of foreign agents on foreign soil using identity papers forged from the UK, another ally. Friends don't try to get state secrets from other friends illegally, either. But Israel has done it. Just because the United States refuses to turn a blind eye to these kind of diplomatic shenanigans doesn't mean that the United States doesn't stand with Israel. It does, however, mean that the foreign policy initiatives have shifted back to the Poppa Bush regime of honest broker in the region. Seeking to achieve a lasting peace in a region doesn't make you an enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Until the U.S. stops sending Israel several billion dollars a year in military and other aid...the U.S. is not turning against Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 If Israel wants us to like them more they should stop electing the Likud Party every other election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveB23 Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 It amazes me how the plurarily of Jewish voters remain staunchly democratic despite this administration's obvious turn away from Israel. As a Jew, I agree with you. My situation is that I am not, nor have I ever been a "1-issue voter". I am deeply concerned about the environment, human rights, womens' rights, etc. (That's why I have never (would never) vote(d) Republican.) Israel is a very important "issue" to me, and I think we need a President who truly values her importance as an ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveB23 Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 Until the U.S. stops sending Israel several billion dollars a year in military and other aid...the U.S. is not turning against Israel. The US also sends billions of dollars in aid to Arab nations (including the "Palestinians"), and they are not what any sane person would consider "allies"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveB23 Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 I would say its Israel going against the rest of the world, unfortunately. You have them building new settlements in occupied territory, despite agreeing not to and you have the assassination of foreign agents on foreign soil using identity papers forged from the UK, another ally. Friends don't try to get state secrets from other friends illegally, either. But Israel has done it. Just because the United States refuses to turn a blind eye to these kind of diplomatic shenanigans doesn't mean that the United States doesn't stand with Israel. It does, however, mean that the foreign policy initiatives have shifted back to the Poppa Bush regime of honest broker in the region. Seeking to achieve a lasting peace in a region doesn't make you an enemy. There was a 10-month moratorium on building settlements in Jerusalem (which belongs to Israel, always has and alway will!) that lapsed. Israel did NOT build during the moratorium. They assassinated known terrorists/murderers...I don't shed one tear for them. Seeking to achieve a "lasting peace" at the expense of Israel's national security DOES make one an enemy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 QUOTE (SteveB23 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 01:03 PM) The US also sends billions of dollars in aid to Arab nations (including the "Palestinians"), and they are not what any sane person would consider "allies"! Military aid to Israel is something like a factor of 10 times larger than aid (virtually all of it humanitarian) to the Palestinian Authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveB23 Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 (edited) Military aid to Israel is something like a factor of 10 times larger than aid (virtually all of it humanitarian) to the Palestinian Authority. That money that goes to the PA never gets to the people who need it. The "Palestinians" live in poverty and squalor, due to the greed of their "leaders". But rockets and explosive belts cost $, and this money has to come from somewhere. (Supposedly Arafat's wife is worth several hundred million dollars, of "humanitarian aid".) Edited April 19, 2010 by SteveB23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 QUOTE (SteveB23 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 01:16 PM) But rockets and explosive belts cost $, and this money has to come from somewhere. Yeah, like $800 a pop for the rockets. You could raise that by just walking into a Mosque and taking up a collection. That's kind of the whole point of the style of fighting out there...one side is massively over-equipped compared to the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 The US also sends billions of dollars in aid to Arab nations (including the "Palestinians"), and they are not what any sane person would consider "allies"! We give Egypt roughly the same amount of money we give Israel. They are bribes to keep the two from going to war again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Jerusalem (which belongs to Israel, always has and alway will!) That attitude is going to keep this conflict going on for another 60 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 QUOTE (SteveB23 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 11:31 AM) I have been a lifelong Democrat, but because I didn't trust Obama with re. Israel, I couldn't vote for BO in good conscience. Unfortunately, it seems that my fears were (are) reality. http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0410/tobin041910.php3 Welcome back. You tipped your identity pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 01:35 PM) We give Egypt roughly the same amount of money we give Israel. They are bribes to keep the two from going to war again. We actually give Egypt something like 60-75% of what we give Israel in a typical year, although the amount given to Israel occasinally surges forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 QUOTE (SteveB23 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 01:16 PM) That money that goes to the PA never gets to the people who need it. The "Palestinians" live in poverty and squalor, due to the greed of their "leaders". But rockets and explosive belts cost $, and this money has to come from somewhere. (Supposedly Arafat's wife is worth several hundred million dollars, of "humanitarian aid".) I don't recall many suicide bombings coming from the West Bank these days. In fact, the ADL doesn't list anything like this coming from the West Bank and the PA since 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 QUOTE (SteveB23 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 01:07 PM) They assassinated known terrorists/murderers...I don't shed one tear for them. Seeking to achieve a "lasting peace" at the expense of Israel's national security DOES make one an enemy IMO. If a country has a policy of targeted murder, that's fine. If you illegally forge resources from allied countries without their knowledge to do that, that's a problem. Friends don't fake friends' passports to kill other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 12:45 PM) Friends don't fake friends' passports to kill other people. So, um, what else would you want for your birthday? I had this idea but. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Looks like I4E tried and failed to return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 He makes himself pretty obvious. SteveB/Stevebartmansmyidol/I4E not even trying to hide really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 QUOTE (Soxy @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 03:03 PM) So, um, what else would you want for your birthday? I had this idea but. . . I'm glad you changed your mind, that's what I got you for YOUR birthday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 You dont have to blindly support Israel to be Jewish. This is a common passage from a Passover Haggadah: The redemption is not yet complete. Not everyone in our world is yet free. This fourth cup reminds us of our responsibility to be God's partners in bringing freedom to those enslaved, peace to those at war, food to those who hunger. This is our purpose as Jews. May we live to fulfill it. Things are always more complicated then they seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 03:14 PM) I'm glad you changed your mind, that's what I got you for YOUR birthday! Well that would have been embarrassing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 QUOTE (Soxy @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 02:27 PM) Well that would have been embarrassing! At least offer him the choice of who you kill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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