Where is Kenny?

[caulfield12]

Because it's 5X harder to find a starting SS than a starting 2B...just like finding a corner outfielder/DH is 10X easier than finding a leadoff hitter with high OBP skills and an 85% success rate stealing.

[Balta1701]

Because it's 5X harder to find a starting SS than a starting 2B...just like finding a corner outfielder/DH is 10X easier than finding a leadoff hitter with high OBP skills and an 85% success rate stealing.

Really? It's 5x harder to find a starting 2b than SS? First of all, I doubt it's actually 5x easier...secondly, I'm not convinced that it's even easier at all.

[Sox72]

Really? It's 5x harder to find a starting 2b than SS? First of all, I doubt it's actually 5x easier...secondly, I'm not convinced that it's even easier at all.

 

I would presume it would be due to the fact that I believe you can turn any SS into a 2B if you needed to. That alone would make it easier.

[caulfield12]

As stated, how many 3B or 2B have been converted to SS?

 

Probably, in basball history, just as many athleticaly gifted CFer's have gone to SS in their minor league careers...who can also go to 2B, like Shoemaker (I think) with the Cardinals.

 

Teahen tried 2B, RF, LF, 1B...he wasn't even close at 2B, but can you imagine him at SS? No way.

 

That's why Uribe is so unique, he can play 2B, SS and 3B to a lesser extent equally well. Someone like Jayson Nix can't make that transition, for a number of reasons.

 

Valentin played 2B/3B/CF after they took him off SS, but that progession almost never goes from one of those positions TO shortstop.

Edited April 20, 2010 by caulfield12

[Ranger]

Because it's 5X harder to find a starting SS than a starting 2B...just like finding a corner outfielder/DH is 10X easier than finding a leadoff hitter with high OBP skills and an 85% success rate stealing.

 

Beckham is perfect where he is.

 

And it wasn't Ozzie to first decide Beckham wouldn't be an ideal SS. That came from the guys that scouted him. And pretty much everybody that scouts for a living said that about him two years ago. They are right.

[sircaffey]

In Kenny I Don't Trust.

[caulfield12]

If Josh Kroeger is our 1B/DH next year, then I'll start to actually get worried about KW's sanity.

 

Or Maurice Gartrell.

 

 

 

 

[iamshack]

If Josh Kroeger is our 1B/DH next year, then I'll start to actually get worried about KW's sanity.

 

Or Maurice Gartrell.

Right, because Kenny is usually one to sit around and do nothing and trust that the unproven system-fillers will get the job done...

 

 

[caulfield12]

That's why I was being sarcastic.

 

I guess I need to use green.

 

Although you can argue that Wise, Lillibridge, Anderson, Fields, Corky Miller, Torres, Colon, R. Williams, Owens ARE NOT MUCH BETTER than Josh Kroeger in the overall scheme of things, yes?

 

You just answered your own question. He saw how well that worked last year and at least TRIED to adjust philosophically this year.

 

 

[iamshack]

That's why I was being sarcastic.

 

I guess I need to use green.

 

Although you can argue that Wise, Lillibridge, Anderson, Fields, Corky Miller, Torres, Colon, R. Williams, Owens ARE NOT MUCH BETTER than Josh Kroeger in the overall scheme of things, yes?

 

You just answered your own question. He saw how well that worked last year and at least TRIED to adjust philosophically this year.

Caufield, I was backing up your point, not disagreeing with you.

[witesoxfan]

Beckham is perfect where he is.

 

And it wasn't Ozzie to first decide Beckham wouldn't be an ideal SS. That came from the guys that scouted him. And pretty much everybody that scouts for a living said that about him two years ago. They are right.

 

I have no scouting training (obviously) and I don't watch nearly as many games as others on here because I live in South Daf***ingkota, but when I compare Beckham to Alexei, Alexei has something about his defensive game that Beckham simply does not. It might be range, quickness, length, arm...I don't know exactly...but there is something about him that makes him a much better SS than Beckham.

 

Beckham would probably be similar to Michael Young defensively at SS...on the 20-80 scale, that's probably about a 30, whereas I think Alexei is closer to a 50.

[justBLAZE]

Kenny on the slow start.

[caulfield12]

"For me to be critical of hypersensitive fans the way I watch baseball games and care about what's going on on a day-to-day basis, you guys know me too well," Williams said. "That's what you pay for. You can't have it both ways.

 

"If you have a passionate fan base, you have to be prepared for a heightened sense of urgency or worry when things don't go your way -- just as you are the beneficiary of extreme excitement when it does go your way. You got to take the good and bad with it. Right now, everyone is a little upset with the way we're playing. So are we.

 

"One thing I've personally had to change about this business, if I'm going to have any staying power: I have to manage myself a little better in terms of that football mentality, and I've had it in the past, where I watch every baseball game, 162 games like a football game," Williams said. "Try having that stress on your body and how you feel at the end of the season."

 

So, for the immediate future, Williams holds a positive outlook and the same sort of postseason hope he had for this team in January at SoxFest and in March during Spring Training. In the past, Williams has talked about needing 60 games to get an accurate read on his team, but there's no doubt Tuesday's lively version of Williams won't be so happy if these struggles continue for another week or two.

 

"It's 60 [games] if you're playing decent," Williams said. "If you continue to play like this, then it's probably not 60. I'll figure it out before then.

 

"There have been some times we haven't capitalized off opportunities which could have turned the game in our favor. But it is what it is. It's 13 games."

 

[caulfield12]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox21.article

 

 

Lots of good Ozzie (I can't say I disagree with anything he said for a change, except our stadium holding 50,000 fans) quotes with some more stuff from KW...

[SouthSidePride05]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox21.article

 

 

Lots of good Ozzie (I can't say I disagree with anything he said for a change, except our stadium holding 50,000 fans) quotes with some more stuff from KW...

 

How could you not know how many our stadium holds? I don't get it. And why does he have to rip on the fans for not showing up? Never a good idea.

 

"At least we'll have people in the stands". That pisses me off. I've spent a lot of money on tickets to see a piss poor performance, and then he rips the fan base. With his recent comments, on camera and on twitter, I'm starting to get irritated with him.

Edited April 21, 2010 by SouthSidePride05

[caulfield12]

Yeah, I guess, in retrospect, that was uncalled for...

 

You can argue all you want about our "fair weather" fanbase, but we've always had a pretty dedicated core of both season ticket holders and corporate box/ticket holders through thick and thin.

 

Ozzie, in 2005/06, the White Sox owned this town....there were articles about paradigm shifts in the fanbases with young fans who saw the championship being swayed to the South Side. Pitching dynasties (second time we heard that, first was when all the young pitchers were coming up together 1999-2001), etc.

 

Now the only way to sustain that 2006 season ticket base was a run of division championships, and 2007 simply killed that, along with the disheartening collapse in the second half of 2006.

 

Mariotti always used to do this...but:

 

2006 2nd half=-8

2007 -18

2008 +15 (-2 for playoffs)

2009 -4

2010 -4

 

That's 19-21 games under .500 over a 3 1/2 year stretch. With a $100 million plus bloated payroll.

 

So if you want to blame anyone, blame yourself and KW for giving us mostly boring, underachieving and very mediocre (sometimes unwatchable) teams that were better individual pieces than they were cohesive units with the proper "mix."

Edited April 21, 2010 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

Yeah, I guess, in retrospect, that was uncalled for...

 

You can argue all you want about our "fair weather" fanbase, but we've always had a pretty dedicated core of both season ticket holders and corporate box/ticket holders through thick and thin.

 

Ozzie, in 2005/06, the White Sox owned this town....there were articles about paradigm shifts in the fanbases with young fans who saw the championship being swayed to the South Side. Pitching dynasties (second time we heard that, first was when all the young pitchers were coming up together 1999-2001), etc.

 

Now the only way to sustain that 2006 season ticket base was a run of division championships, and 2007 simply killed that, along with the disheartening collapse in the second half of 2006.

 

Mariotti always used to do this...but:

 

2006 2nd half=-8

2007 -18

2008 +15 (-2 for playoffs)

2009 -4

2010 -4

 

That's 19-21 games under .500 over a 3 1/2 year stretch. With a $100 million plus bloated payroll.

 

So if you want to blame anyone, blame yourself and KW for giving us mostly boring, underachieving and very mediocre (sometimes unwatchable) teams that were better individual pieces than they were cohesive units with the proper "mix."

 

so you just cherry picked the 2006 and 2010 statistics? Yeah, I understand that team collapsed, but they still finished with 90 wins and 18 games over .500. And using the 2010 season statistic 14 games into the season? That's ridiculous. Sure, they could end up finishing exactly 4 games under .500, and you'd look like Nostradamus, but odds are it's going to be different than that.

 

+18

-18

+15

-4

 

That's 11 games over .500, a 90 win season, and a division championship. And in that 90 win season, the Sox finished in 3rd place because the two teams ahead of the Sox won 95 and 94 games respectfully, and the Tigers made it to the World Series that year.

 

In the past 5 seasons, the Sox have won a World Series, 2 division championships, and have 3 very good seasons mixed with 2 poor seasons. That's it.

[caulfield12]

I wasn't attempting to say that's where they'll finish, that's just the up-to-date number for that stretch.

 

Although plus or minus 4 wouldn't be a very bad guess if you're a gambling man.

 

You do have to admit that 2006 second half and 2007 really took the wind out of the sails for those fans who fair-weathered into WHITE SOX NATION after 2005...