Alex Rios as a leadoff hitter?

[BFirebird]

Not sure if this has been posted before...couldn't find it, but what about Alex Rios in the leadoff spot over Juan Pierre?

I just thought I would throw this against the wall and see what everyone thought. IMO the only downside I see is too many righties in a row. Statistically Rios might be a better choice...and right now at least he is getting on base more than Pierre and outside of Andruw Jones is probably hitting the ball the hardest.

 

Here is some stats to back up my argument:

 

162 Game averages for Pierre and Rios:

 

Rios: .281/.330/.445/.775

Pierre: .300/.347/.370/.717

 

 

Furthermore, as a leadoff man for Toronto Rios pretty much hit his career norms:

in 603 PA:

 

.282/.333./.487/.821

 

Like I said previously, the only downside I see is the Righty situation.

 

You would then have a lineup of:

 

Rios

Beckham

Q

PK

Jones

AJ

Alexei

Teahen

Pierre

 

This is not ideal, but when you don't have a lefty at this point that can actually hit, what difference does it make? No one is bringing in a lefty reliever to face Pierre, Teahen or Kotsay anways! One thing is for sure, whether Ozzie wants it or not KW will be shopping for a lefty stick of some kind whether that be Berkman or A Gon or someone less ballyhooed. To me that is the obvious weakness of this team.

 

 

[The Ginger Kid]

rather see him hitting 3rd.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

A caller to The Score last night made this suggestion that I would not mind seeing....

 

He said bat Rios leadoff, and Pierre 2nd. Rios has ability to get on base, and is arguably our best hitter right now (who is not banging HRs) who has good speed. He said with Rios on base, the 1B would have to hold him on, creating a gap on the right side where Juan Pierre would be able to slap groundballs in that 1B hole. Beckham would then bat 3rd, with Quentin 4th, and Konerko 5th.

 

Basically......

 

1) Rios

2) Pierre

3) Beckham

4) Quentin

5) Konerko

6) Jones

7-9

 

This offense sucks right now, so I would not mind seeing Rios and Pierre as the tandem.

[Kalapse]

Personally, I'm moving Pierre to #9 and bumping everyone up a slot but then again I'm starving for an AL team to go with a non traditional lineup. In my mind this makes a ton of sense since Pierre would still be hitting immediately in front of Beckham and Quentin but he'd get a PA less per game and increase the odds that one of our better hitters in the middle of the lineup get to the plate in the 8th or 9th inning.

[BFirebird]

A caller to The Score last night made this suggestion that I would not mind seeing....

 

He said bat Rios leadoff, and Pierre 2nd. Rios has ability to get on base, and is arguably our best hitter right now (who is not banging HRs) who has good speed. He said with Rios on base, the 1B would have to hold him on, creating a gap on the right side where Juan Pierre would be able to slap groundballs in that 1B hole. Beckham would then bat 3rd, with Quentin 4th, and Konerko 5th.

 

Basically......

 

1) Rios

2) Pierre

3) Beckham

4) Quentin

5) Konerko

6) Jones

7-9

 

This offense sucks right now, so I would not mind seeing Rios and Pierre as the tandem.

 

I guess that would be a decent choice as well. Pierre does have good contact and he hits the ball on the ground a lot. He hit it on the ground every time last night to either the 3B, SS and 2B. Maybe some hit and run possibilities. I just hate the Ozzie slap hitters. Pierre couldn't hit it into the gap if he were on steroids.

 

[Kalapse]

I guess that would be a decent choice as well. Pierre does have good contact and he hits the ball on the ground a lot. He hit it on the ground every time last night to either the 3B, SS and 2B. Maybe some hit and run possibilities. I just hate the Ozzie slap hitters. Pierre couldn't hit it into the gap if he were on steroids.

How do you know this isn't Pierre on steroids? Perhaps he has the strength of an 8 year old boy without them.

[BFirebird]

How do you know this isn't Pierre on steroids? Perhaps he has the strength of an 8 year old boy without them.

Good point. Seriously, he hits the ball hard and he is lucky to hit it to medium RF.

[WCSox]

Pierre is definitely a #9 hitter and would be better off there. However, I don't see a clear better option, even in the short-term. I don't want Beckham or Rios to have to re-adjust their approach to hit leadoff, and then lose a ton of RBI opportunities as well. AJ and Alexei are both hitting like crap now, so they're not viable short-term options. It might make sense to flip-flop Pierre and Teahen while Pierre works out of his slump. But, again, that's only a temporary solution.

 

At this point, I'd just let Pierre work his way out of his slump. If he eventually puts up his career OBP, he'll be a below-average-but-semi-viable leadoff hitter.

 

[Kalapse]

Pierre is definitely a #9 hitter and would be better off there. However, I don't see a clear better option, even in the short-term. I don't want Beckham or Rios to have to re-adjust their approach to hit leadoff, and then lose a ton of RBI opportunities as well. AJ and Alexei are both hitting like crap now, so they're not viable short-term options. It might make sense to flip-flop Pierre and Teahen while Pierre works out of his slump. But, again, that's only a temporary solution.

 

At this point, I'd just let Pierre work his way out of his slump. If he eventually puts up his career OBP, he'll be a below-average-but-semi-viable leadoff hitter.

How does Beckham lose a ton of RBI opportunities if he's moved up 1 spot in the lineup (Rios on the other hand might lose a few)? It's the same guys hitting in front of him, the only difference is he'll have no one on in front of him in the first inning as opposed to the 20% he's gotten thus far this year. Last year our top 2 #2 hitters (Alexei and Gordon) knocked in someone other than themselves only 4 times in the first inning.

 

No one would have to change their game if moved to the top of the lineup, this is the American League, just go up there and do what you do best, whatever that may be and enjoy the increase in plate appearances.

[fathom]

I just hate the philosophy of getting your weakest hitter the most at bats every game. Pierre just doesn't have the speed anymore to slap the ball around the infield and beat it out.

[BFirebird]

How does Beckham lose a ton of RBI opportunities if he's moved up 1 spot in the lineup (Rios on the other hand might lose a few)? It's the same guys hitting in front of him, the only difference is he'll have no one on in front of him in the first inning as opposed to the 20% he's gotten thus far this year. Last year our top 2 #2 hitters (Alexei and Gordon) knocked in someone other than themselves only 4 times in the first inning.

 

No one would have to change their game if moved to the top of the lineup, this is the American League, just go up there and do what you do best, whatever that may be and enjoy the increase in plate appearances.

My point exactly. When Rios lead off for Toronto he was the same player...maybe stole a few more bags, but his avg, ops, etc were nearly exactly in line with his career averages. Is he ideal, no, but neither is putting your worst hitter in the position to receive the most at bats.

[WCSox]

How does Beckham lose a ton of RBI opportunities if he's moved up 1 spot in the lineup (Rios on the other hand might lose a few)? It's the same guys hitting in front of him, the only difference is he'll have no one on in front of him in the first inning as opposed to the 20% he's gotten thus far this year. Last year our top 2 #2 hitters (Alexei and Gordon) knocked in someone other than themselves only 4 times in the first inning.

 

Sorry, he'll lose *some* RBI opportunities. And you're right that he'll have no one in front of him in the first inning... just as he has very few people on base when he's up now. So I don't see what moving Beckham to leadoff accomplishes. It seems to me that temporarily moving a hotter, low SLG bat to leadoff (like, say, Teahen) would be the better option.

 

No one would have to change their game if moved to the top of the lineup, this is the American League, just go up there and do what you do best

 

That logic may not apply when your manager wants to play a National League-style game.

Edited April 21, 2010 by WCSox

[caulfield12]

How does Beckham lose a ton of RBI opportunities if he's moved up 1 spot in the lineup (Rios on the other hand might lose a few)? It's the same guys hitting in front of him, the only difference is he'll have no one on in front of him in the first inning as opposed to the 20% he's gotten thus far this year. Last year our top 2 #2 hitters (Alexei and Gordon) knocked in someone other than themselves only 4 times in the first inning.

 

No one would have to change their game if moved to the top of the lineup, this is the American League, just go up there and do what you do best, whatever that may be and enjoy the increase in plate appearances.

 

 

Not always true. Moving to leadoff seemed to really get to Swisher and throw his game off totally.

 

Rios is a pro, but not sure I want to mess with either him or Beckham by putting that kind of pressure on them. O-Cab managed to adjust as well and was a much better hitter in the 2nd half of 2008.

 

It really ate up Wise, Owens, Lillibridge, etc. Of course, they were never very good to begin with, slight problem with that strategy.

[witesoxfan]

For all the s*** Swisher gets for his time in Chicago, the dude still put up a .354 OBP as a leadoff hitter, even if he didn't hit for average or power. He was getting on base.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I just hate the philosophy of getting your weakest hitter the most at bats every game. Pierre just doesn't have the speed anymore to slap the ball around the infield and beat it out.

 

Agreed.

 

That's why I'd go with:

 

Beckham

Rios

Quentin

Konerko

Teahen

Jones

Ramirez

A.J.

Pierre

 

I think this lineup would score a lot more runs.

[Heads22]

Pierre is performing on a Brent Lillibridge level.

[WCSox]

Agreed.

 

That's why I'd go with:

 

Beckham

Rios

Quentin

Konerko

Teahen

Jones

Ramirez

A.J.

Pierre

 

I think this lineup would score a lot more runs.

 

Shuffling the lineup will make a marginal difference at best. The Sox won't begin scoring "a lot more runs" until the latter three in your lineup start hitting.

 

[soxfan3530]

I still think Juan will turn it around. Is he great? No. But I think he ends the season with an average around .280-.290. Hope im right.

[LittleHurt05]

Shuffling the lineup will make a marginal difference at best. The Sox won't begin scoring "a lot more runs" until the latter three in your lineup start hitting.

 

This.

 

All these new lineups still have Beckham (.222) & TCQ (.191) right in the middle of them. Until those guys start hitting, the lineup order isn't gotta matter. AJP & Pierre need to get over the Mendoza line as well.

[Kalapse]

I still think Juan will turn it around. Is he great? No. But I think he ends the season with an average around .280-.290. Hope im right.

There's very little doubt in my mind that he'll finish around .283/.328/.352/.680 even with his slow start. Thing is I'd rather the guy with the .330 OBP and .070 ISO get .610 PA rather than 750.

[soxfan3530]

There's very little doubt in my mind that he'll finish around .283/.328/.352/.680 even with his slow start. Thing is I'd rather the guy with the .330 OBP and .070 ISO get .610 PA rather than 750.

Agreed but who is that guy? I dont think a few weeks of Rios hitting the ball well means you can rely on him for numbers like that all season long and Beckham is struggling almost as much as Pierre is right now. At least Pierre can steal bases and score runs from first in that role.

[Kalapse]

Well he's today's lineup:

 

pierre LF

beckham 2B

quentin RF

konerko 1B

pierzynski C

jones DH

rios CF

teahen 3B

ramirez SS

 

Looks like this is what we'll be seeing on a regular basis against right handed pitching. Kotsay's been demoted.

[chetkincaid]

No. I say leave Rios alone. He's finally hitting now and we don't want him to lose it. Leave him be.

[Greg Hibbard]

remember when Oakland used to leadoff Hatteberg? Those were the days.

[Kalapse]

Agreed but who is that guy? I dont think a few weeks of Rios hitting the ball well means you can rely on him for numbers like that all season long and Beckham is struggling almost as much as Pierre is right now. At least Pierre can steal bases and score runs from first in that role.

Like I said; I'd move Pierre to the 9th spot and everyone else up a slot which is hardly conventional but it would drastically reduce Pierre's PA while still allowing him to hit in front of Beckham, Quentin and Konerko. It's not a quick fix but those hardly ever work in baseball anyway, by season's end I expect Beckham and Quentin to be the team's 2 best hitters so having them at the top makes sense. It's the same exact lineup in every inning but the first, as long as the manager doesn't place extra pressure on your top 2 hitters to play like top of the order stereotypes you should be fine. Then again what the hell do I know?