kitekrazy Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I tend to disagree when people say that. He wanted a certain mold for the team but I doubt he wanted guys like Pierre or Jones. Wanting a certain type of player with financial limitations is what I see. High hopes that aging players will find the fountain of youth. I'm not surprised things have turned out this way so far. The way this organization does things i the off season, we should expect inconsistency every year when it comes to wins. I would like to see them model what the Rays and Twin have done. I have no problem dealing with a team having a losing season or two with a promising youth movement. I'm baffled at how they can take players from other organization and make them improve more than the home grown talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Are you kidding me? Pierre's probably his favorite player in all of baseball. Ozzie doesn't care about OBP, and that is why you've seen so many pitchers dominate us with 10 pitchers or fewer in a game. This absolutely is Ozzie's team, and his job should be at stake if this team continues to flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 10:54 AM) I'm baffled at how they can take players from other organization and make them improve more than the home grown talent. The scouting and development in the organization was absolutely awful for many years. Our failure rate with 1st round picks is absurd. The overall production from our system has been hilariously bad over the years. The only saving grace has been the fact that Kenny has snookered other GM's into taking our prospects for some proven major leaguers. Hopefully Buddy Bell can cleanup this mess of a system over the years. I'm really watching to see if guys like Trayce Thompson, Gilmore, Phegley, Viciedo etc take a step forward this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 10:57 AM) Are you kidding me? Pierre's probably his favorite player in all of baseball. Ozzie doesn't care about OBP, and that is why you've seen so many pitchers dominate us with 10 pitchers or fewer in a game. This absolutely is Ozzie's team, and his job should be at stake if this team continues to flop. So... Name the players who are on this team because Ozzie told Kenny to go get them. 1. Pierre? 2. Andruw Jones? 3. .... IMO, this 'Ozzie's team' thing is waaaaaaaay overplayed. Outside of his stated desire for a fast leadoff guy and a rotating DH, the only control Ozzie has over this mess is what names from the existing roster he chooses to play on a certain day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (scenario @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 05:16 PM) So... Name the players who are on this team because Ozzie told Kenny to go get them. 1. Pierre? 2. Andruw Jones? 3. .... IMO, this 'Ozzie's team' thing is waaaaaaaay overplayed. Outside of his stated desire for a fast leadoff guy and a rotating DH, the only control Ozzie has over this mess is what names from the existing roster he chooses to play on a certain day. Ozzie said after last season that he loved Mark Kotsay. Ozzie's also spoken about his affection for Vizquel, and we all know he loves Garcia. This is the type of roster Ozzie wants, and KW finally gave him the keys. If this roster doesn't work out, then you have to go with another strategy. OBP would be a nice start, but we all know Ozzie doesn't care about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Yeah I'm actually in agreeance with fathom here. That said, KW has to take some of the blame as well, all of the decision makers should if we continue to struggle. KW could have done better by simply not trading for Pierre, and putting the money that you save from that deal towards signing Damon and keeping Thome on a smallish contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) There were also some very interesting comments today (Sun-Times) about AJ and his relationship with Ozzie. Seems Ozzie was a little upset with bringing up the contract issue, 10-and-5 rights and free agency...then he acknowledged that he loved AJ, he was his starting catcher (not quite no matter what)...that he had a right to speak his mind freely because his manager does the same thing. Then it seems he changed his tone, going on about how very few organizations could put up with AJ and love him like a son, that he's had more individual meetings with him than any other individual player...it was close to an interesting insight. Because they definitely have a big decision to make. Right now it's easy...they have to cut the strings, as they did with Dye and Thome. It's up to AJ to make that situation as difficult as possible with his level of play, or he can simply withdraw like Dye did when the writing on the wall became more obvious to him with the Rios deal midseason. Maybe Ozzie has lost his objectivity, a bit. It seems he's TOO close to Garcia, Ramirez, AJ, Rios, Paulie, Vizquel (playing over Nix consistently after Jayson's power displays in 2009, and obviously this team is looking for some pop/firepower somewhere), Buehrle, Jenks, Andruw Jones, Pierre...I think that sentimental side of him as a player affects his decision-making process too much at times. Unless you're a Beckham, it's hard for a young player to emerge "intact" in this organization and get Ozzie's full attention and respect. Edited April 22, 2010 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I think this was the first year where KW threw the ball almost completely in Ozzie's court. This is Ozzie's team, this is the group of guys he wanted. He's making the lineups, and calling the shots with this group of guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 05:31 PM) Yeah I'm actually in agreeance with fathom here. That said, KW has to take some of the blame as well, all of the decision makers should if we continue to struggle. KW could have done better by simply not trading for Pierre, and putting the money that you save from that deal towards signing Damon and keeping Thome on a smallish contract. There's no doubt that KW has struggled the last two years with the talent he's signed/traded for. Not a lot of return so far on some huge investments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I also believe Ozzie had a huge say in not bringing back Dye or Thome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 04:45 PM) I also believe Ozzie had a huge say in not bringing back Dye or Thome. It absolutely was Ozzie's decision not to bring back Thome, as he didn't think he could get him enough at bats. All Spring Training, we were told this is Ozzie's team and the roster he wanted to be assembled. Edited April 22, 2010 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 11:47 AM) It absolutely was Ozzie's decision not to bring back Thome, as he didn't think he could get him enough at bats. All Spring Training, we were told this is Ozzie's team and the roster he wanted to be assembled. Theoretically, who would be on your "short list" of possible available managers on a note hidden away from Ozzie behind the "Big Board"? Edited April 22, 2010 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 05:53 PM) Theoretically, who would be on your "short list" of possible available managers on a note hidden away from Ozzie behind the "Big Board"? 1. Don Cooper 2. Don Cooper 3. Don Cooper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 09:45 AM) I also believe Ozzie had a huge say in not bringing back Dye or Thome. thank god. I'm enjoying Rios and Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 01:05 PM) thank god. I'm enjoying Rios and Jones. How about Kotsay? The guy whose performing the same role for us (and making the same money) as Thome is for the Twins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) I agree with you about Don Cooper. I like his honesty and candor, seems everyone really admires and respects him a lot in the organization. The Larry Dierker type of pick. Although I think he came directly from the broadcast booth to the dugout, correct? I'm ready to go with Steve Stone as GM depending on where we stand on April 1st, 2012. I'm giving KW these two years....that's the extent of my patience to fix this mess. Edited April 22, 2010 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I want Weaver-ball. I know Davey Johnson has expressed some reluctance in returning to managing, but i wonder if a three-year contract and a big market would sway him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 12:06 PM) How about Kotsay? The guy whose performing the same role for us (and making the same money) as Thome is for the Twins. For real. I'll take their part time lefty bat over Kotsay. And Rios is replacing Wise in CF. Pierre is the man who replaced Dye in the OF. Edited April 22, 2010 by BigSqwert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 How old is Davey Johnson? I'm just not sure if his managerial approach (could we call it "old school"?) is the right one for a young team....if KW sticks it out with this rotation, then a veteran manager like Johnson makes a lot more sense to me. Same with Jack McKeon, for example. I always liked Torborg. He was my favorite White Sox manager...although I did get a chance to know Gene Lamont really well in 1995 when he started working as an advisor with the Pirates and was visiting all the minor league affiliates, and I found myself liking him a lot more than my perception as an "outsider" following the Sox. I even got him to sign the framed picture of Bo Jackson on the TRIB cover from when we clinched the division in 1993. The funny thing is he really liked us to play "YMCA" and I got so sick of playing that song....it was like the Macarena. He's a good baseball man. When I was in DET last year, he was giving an on-field clinic and it's obvious he still really enjoys being around the game. But I never once brought up what happened with the Sox, I know he was hurt by that a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 01:14 PM) How old is Davey Johnson? 67. So maybe of some concern. He's still in baseball though (Nats front office) and has been managing some international clubs for the last couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 10:06 AM) How about Kotsay? The guy whose performing the same role for us (and making the same money) as Thome is for the Twins. meh. Thome's got 5 hits in 22 ABs, Kotsay 3 in 25 ABs. Jim does have 2 dingers, but he's still slow as s*** on the bases and can't play anything but DH, while Kotsay can play a slick 1B or even the outfield in a pinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 06:38 PM) meh. Thome's got 5 hits in 22 ABs, Kotsay 3 in 25 ABs. Jim does have 2 dingers, but he's still slow as s*** on the bases and can't play anything but DH, while Kotsay can play a slick 1B or even the outfield in a pinch. Kotsay also is slow as s*** on the bases. For all this versatility talk we heard during ST, there sure hasn't been a lot of creativity from Ozzie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 01:08 PM) Kotsay also is slow as s*** on the bases. For all this versatility talk we heard during ST, there sure hasn't been a lot of creativity from Ozzie. Kinda need people to get on base to get very creative... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Or not give up any runs with poor defense. The Twins have one error the entire season...against the Sox. They've yet to make an error in 9 home games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 22, 2010 -> 11:08 AM) Kotsay also is slow as s*** on the bases. For all this versatility talk we heard during ST, there sure hasn't been a lot of creativity from Ozzie. please, Jim is Herman f***ing Munster on the bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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