Is this really Ozzie's team?

[Harry Chappas]

Kotsay also is slow as s*** on the bases. For all this versatility talk we heard during ST, there sure hasn't been a lot of creativity from Ozzie.

 

You want to know a pretty big organizational flaw that is never talked about.

 

Cooper preaches pitching to contact yet the defense is never addressed properly. Mark Teahen at third is not addressing the defense properly.

[fathom]

You want to know a pretty big organizational flaw that is never talked about.

 

Cooper preaches pitching to contact yet the defense is never addressed properly. Mark Teahen at third is not addressing the defense properly.

 

His reactions at 3rd are comical. Looks like someone who's never played the position before.

[ThunderBolt]

Look at the lineup for today's game. This is Ozzie's team and if he keeps putting it out there, it won't be for much longer.

[caulfield12]

If they called me, I could have told them that Teahen (despite his "plus" arm) was not the person to trade for to play 3B, and certainly not to sign to an extension.

 

He's fine as a utility/bench player on a great team, but he's arguably not a starter on most upper-tier teams because his offense doesn't compensate for his defensive shortcomings at a power position.

[ThunderBolt]

If they called me, I could have told them that Teahen (despite his "plus" arm) was not the person to trade for to play 3B, and certainly not to sign to an extension.

 

He's fine as a utility/bench player on a great team, but he's arguably not a starter on most upper-tier teams because his offense doesn't compensate for his defensive shortcomings at a power position.

Teahen is getting on-base at a ridiculiously high rate. He's not the problem.

[kitekrazy]

I agree with you about Don Cooper.

 

I like his honesty and candor, seems everyone really admires and respects him a lot in the organization.

 

The Larry Dierker type of pick. Although I think he came directly from the broadcast booth to the dugout, correct?

 

I'm ready to go with Steve Stone as GM depending on where we stand on April 1st, 2012. I'm giving KW these two years....that's the extent of my patience to fix this mess.

 

 

Coop's greatest talent is being a pitching coach. I think it would be easier to replace a manager than a pitching coach.

Stone has no desire to move beyond the booth. The Sox tried that before and it was a bad, bad, idea.

 

KW should be allowed to have a bad season like this once in awhile.

 

 

[The Ginger Kid]

His reactions at 3rd are comical. Looks like someone who's never played the position before.

he looks slow and nonathletic to me, and his throws never seem to have any rhythm. I love how Beltre always stops and throws off two feet.

[fathom]

KW should be allowed to have a bad season like this once in awhile.

 

He did, in 2007. Last year was nothing to write home about.

[SoxAce]

He wanted 150+ ABs sample size Kotsay back. Check.

Begged KW for a slap-hitting speedster for a leadoff hitter (basically begged him to find a leadoff hitter or threatened to put Beckham there). Check.

Wanted Freddy to take the 5th spot. Check.

Raved about the "hall of famer" Vizquel and wants him to get alot of at-bats even DH some. (thank god we haven't seen that...yet) Check.

Couple that with his s***ty batting order, his micro-managing, and his constant love for L/R matchups and you got yourself Ozzie's team. Time will tell about the Jones situation. The only thing he got right was bringing Santos up, but the only reason was because of polities. (out of options)

 

I'm ready to go with Steve Stone as GM depending on where we stand on April 1st, 2012. I'm giving KW these two years....that's the extent of my patience to fix this mess.

 

Rick Hahn would be the next GM (and rightfully so) in line to get it. I would love him as our GM. He's the one who negotiates the contracts, not to mention is the saber. guy.

Edited April 22, 2010 by SoxAce

[South Side Fireworks Man]

So... Name the players who are on this team because Ozzie told Kenny to go get them.

 

1. Pierre?

2. Andruw Jones?

3. ....

 

IMO, this 'Ozzie's team' thing is waaaaaaaay overplayed.

 

Outside of his stated desire for a fast leadoff guy and a rotating DH, the only control Ozzie has over this mess is what names from the existing roster he chooses to play on a certain day.

Didn't Ozzie say re-signing Kotsay should be the top priority after last season? And he's always loved Vizquel...

Edited April 22, 2010 by South Side Fireworks Man

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Look at the lineup for today's game. This is Ozzie's team and if he keeps putting it out there, it won't be for much longer.

That's why I don't feel like paying for any more tickets to Sox games this year. It's not the bad start as much as the fact that Ozzie seems determined to play bench players as regulars. When I buy tickets to a Sox game, I want there to be a high probability that I'm going to see their regulars play. But with Ozzie, your almost as likely to see two or more bench players starting.

 

And how can a team gel and get on a roll when the regular lineup (if there even is one with Ozzie) is only in there a few times a week?

[qwerty]

I don't blame ozzie for the team that is on the field. I blame kenny williams. I blame the upper brass. I blame kenny williams for granting guillen what he desires. I blame the upper brass for letting kenny williams grant guillen what he desires. The order of blame is the brass, kenny wiliams, and ozzie guillen, in that order, and in no other. When you are a little kid and your parents ask you what you want for christmas you are gonna tell them some things that are realistic and some things that are highly unrealistic. Once in a blue moon you actually end up getting that highly unrealistic item. Doesn't hurt to ask/throw it out there now does it? It just so happens guillens wishes were granted

 

The line-up, once it gets going (which it will, for how long i cannot tell you) will be good, by that i mean slightly above average for stretches. I have no problem with the order of the line-up changing at what seems like a rapid pace like others here do. The line-up is changing at a rapid pace, but it's like that everywhere else also, so there is nothing to be concerned about in that aspect.

 

My complaint is that the line-up gets extremely weak when it comes to our bats (of significance) needing rest. It's weak enough when just one sits, then two? How about three? With this rotating dh you would think guillen would try his hardest to make sure 2 of the best 4 hitters (not jumping to conclusions with jones, not even close) were not on the bench simultaneously (beckham and rios today). Bench your second best hitter and your seventh best, bench your eighth and your second. Two of your top four is not acceptable to me , especially considering beckham just had monday off. Rotating dh's do indeed exist, but the way guillen is/will go about it is baloney, garbage if you will. Beckham is the last person who needs two days off during a one week stretch. We really need to just go to a 24 man roster, as nix is just about useless.

 

How about if they went into the season accounting for injuries? Say one month into the season, any of the top four hitters you want to imagine went down, and went down long term. We then replace one of the best hitters with a hitter who is much below league average. Take a guess who the guy is that replaces him? A below replacement level player, if we are lucky. Chain reaction, just like an arm going down in the pen, it tends to gets ugly, fast.

 

I will be the first to admit that there are 20 teams on average going through the same problems (and even worse... every year) as the white sox. The problem is those are teams who don't figure to contend. Contenders, much, much more often than not have viable replacements, and if they don't, they go out and get one. The problem at hand stems from not properly constructing the line-up from the beginning, and taking this ''wait and see'' approach. If this, if that, etc, etc.

 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I don't blame ozzie for the team that is on the field. I blame kenny williams. I blame the upper brass. I blame kenny williams for granting guillen what he desires.

I doubt if when Kenny traded Brian Anderson for mark Kotsay and then re-signed Kotsay this offseason he envisioned him starting a large percentage of the games and batting in the middle of the order.

 

And if I thought Kenny had complete authority over Guillen I'd be more likely to agree with you on the rest of the roster. But I'm pretty sure that JR would never allow KW to fire Ozzie so KW may have his hands tied quite a bit. Letting Ozzie have the roster he's been wanting may be KW's only way to prove a point.

 

Any good GM should try to give his manager significant input into what type of team he wants. Of course, if the GM strongly disagrees he should override the manger. But when the GM knows that he is tied to a particular manager for the forseeable future and the manager has been saying for years that he wants a certain type of team that he has not been given, the only recourse the GM may have is to let the manager try it his way for a short time. If the manager is proven correct, everybody wins. If the manager is proven wrong, at least the issue is settled and it gives the GM more leverage with the owner who adores the manager.

[caulfield12]

Agreed, for the most part.

 

The only "above average" replacement/s we could argue that we have waiting in the minors statistically would be Tyler Flowers at C/DH (assuming he could put up more than a 500 OPS), Hudson (over Garcia) and probably Josh Kroeger would get the slight nod over Kotsay, although Kroeger is really almost like Wilson Betemit as a walking defensive nightmare wherever you stick him on the diamond. Arguments could be made for Jordan Danks over Pierre, but everyone is concerned about his K percentage and lack of power, especially in LF/RF.

 

But yes, there's a dearth of legit replacements, and there's very little talented depth...just "old/veteran/journeyman" depth, I don't even know that Jayson Nix exists in Ozzie's eyes anymore with Vizquel on the team. Nix is a Gold Glove caliber 2B, yet Ozzie has Nix benched still and going w/ Vizquel, who's a natural SS.

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I don't blame ozzie for the team that is on the field. I blame kenny williams. I blame the upper brass. I blame kenny williams for granting guillen what he desires. I blame the upper brass for letting kenny williams grant guillen what he desires. The order of blame is the brass, kenny wiliams, and ozzie guillen, in that order, and in no other. When you are a little kid and your parents ask you what you want for christmas you are gonna tell them some things that are realistic and some things that are highly unrealistic. Once in a blue moon you actually end up getting that highly unrealistic item. Doesn't hurt to ask/throw it out there now does it? It just so happens guillens wishes were granted

 

The line-up, once it gets going (which it will, for how long i cannot tell you) will be good, by that i mean slightly above average for stretches. I have no problem with the order of the line-up changing at what seems like a rapid pace like others here do. The line-up is changing at a rapid pace, but it's like that everywhere else also, so there is nothing to be concerned about in that aspect.

 

My complaint is that the line-up gets extremely weak when it comes to our bats (of significance) needing rest. It's weak enough when just one sits, then two? How about three? With this rotating dh you would think guillen would try his hardest to make sure 2 of the best 4 hitters (not jumping to conclusions with jones, not even close) were not on the bench simultaneously (beckham and rios today). Bench your second best hitter and your seventh best, bench your eighth and your second. Two of your top four is not acceptable to me , especially considering beckham just had monday off. Rotating dh's do indeed exist, but the way guillen is/will go about it is baloney, garbage if you will. Beckham is the last person who needs two days off during a one week stretch. We really need to just go to a 24 man roster, as nix is just about useless.

 

How about if they went into the season accounting for injuries? Say one month into the season, any of the top four hitters you want to imagine went down, and went down long term. We then replace one of the best hitters with a hitter who is much below league average. Take a guess who the guy is that replaces him? A below replacement level player, if we are lucky. Chain reaction, just like an arm going down in the pen, it tends to gets ugly, fast.

 

I will be the first to admit that there are 20 teams on average going through the same problems (and even worse... every year) as the white sox. The problem is those are teams who don't figure to contend. Contenders, much, much more often than not have viable replacements, and if they don't, they go out and get one. The problem at hand stems from not properly constructing the line-up from the beginning, and taking this ''wait and see'' approach. If this, if that, etc, etc.

 

Sounds right to me. Ozzie always talks about fans not understanding his job, I am guessing that there is a reason no one tried to make Ozzie a GM...

[caulfield12]

If I was hiring Guillen, it would be as Sox Baseball Academy Director in Venezuela....Assistant Scouting Director/Caribbean-South America.

 

That would be it, right now.

[southsider2k5]

If I was hiring Guillen, it would be as Sox Baseball Academy Director in Venezuela....Assistant Scouting Director/Caribbean-South America.

 

That would be it, right now.

 

Hire Guillen as a scout? Wow.

[fathom]

Hire Guillen as a scout? Wow.

 

Haha, as you said elsewhere, how about we avoid him making personnel decisions.

[caulfield12]

Okay...maybe a scout who makes talent recommendations/identification without making the final decision.

 

Giving him too much authority might be a mistake. But he has to have some, or he wouldn't consider it worth his time and effort.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Okay...maybe a scout who makes talent recommendations/identification without making the final decision.

 

Giving him too much authority might be a mistake. But he has to have some, or he wouldn't consider it worth his time and effort.

I can see Ozzie's scouting reports now - D. Wise: "tremendous at-bats." A. Ramirez: "gold glove defense at SS." D. Erstad: "equivelant to a .400 hitter." T. Perez: "nothing this guy can't do." R. Mackowiak: "natural CFer."

[jphat007]

Coop's greatest talent is being a pitching coach. I think it would be easier to replace a manager than a pitching coach.

Stone has no desire to move beyond the booth. The Sox tried that before and it was a bad, bad, idea.

 

KW should be allowed to have a bad season like this once in awhile.

 

The problem is that KW's f*** ups are going to hurt us for several years, not just this year. We have almost 30 million wrapped up in 2 average players for the next 3 years. It's going to be hard to build around those two.