Sox situation: Grave

[justBLAZE]

So how does this play out if the product remains subpar?

 

By May, expect a coach to be sacrificed. By June, a few players. Why would Reinsdorf want to pay for a Pierzynski on a fifth-place team when he can have a cheaper Tyler Flowers? Why does he need a Paul Konerko when he can slide Mark Kotsay there?

 

Read it here.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Read it here.

 

''We are really sticking our necks out,'' Reinsdorf told Scott Merkin of MLB.com in March. ''The fact is that we now have $100million committed to payroll for next year, and that's not for 25 guys.

 

''I know this: If it doesn't work, we'll handle it, but it will have an effect. If we lose a lot of money this year, it will affect what we can do going forward. It's not going to put us in bankruptcy, but it means we will have to cut back. ... I'm just concerned if we come out and open the season 2-12 and people stop coming out.''

 

Paging Dick Allen.

[chisoxfan09]

The Sox' $103 million payroll for 2010 was predicated on early success to help foot the bill as the season went on. Why do you think chairman Jerry Reinsdorf initially said no to acquiring Jake Peavy last year?

 

When the financial plan was laid out to Reinsdorf, he reconsidered. But that plan was taking into account butts in the seats to watch a winning team throughout the year.

 

''We are really sticking our necks out,'' Reinsdorf told Scott Merkin of MLB.com in March. ''The fact is that we now have $100million committed to payroll for next year, and that's not for 25 guys.

 

''I know this: If it doesn't work, we'll handle it, but it will have an effect. If we lose a lot of money this year, it will affect what we can do going forward. It's not going to put us in bankruptcy, but it means we will have to cut back. ... I'm just concerned if we come out and open the season 2-12 and people stop coming out.''

 

How about 5-10?

 

There is time to turn it around but I can sure as heck predict crickets chirping in early June and July if they don't start hitting, pitching, and winning. The most consistent theme on the board all winter and spring has been a true lack of faith in Ozzie's stubborness regarding what he wants and what he will do with this lineup, just too many holes that were not addressed properly. I agree with a lot of posters that the euphoria of 2005 is wearing thin and maybe a change is on order if this does not turn around. Can't blame the fans for refusing to pay for a mediocre product now for the last 3-4 years.

[greg775]

Wow.

Doom n gloom ain't just confined to us Sox fans on this board.

This is why you don't want to have about the worst April imanagable.

Sucks so much.

Edited April 23, 2010 by greg775

[chisoxfan09]

Paging Dick Allen.

 

J4L, I am not bashing and just quoted the same thing you did but stated the obvious. JR can't expect us to pay for this medicore product, now way.

[chisoxfan09]

Wow.

Doom n gloom ain't just confined to us Sox fans on this board.

This is why you don't want to have about the worst April imanagable.

Sucks so much.

 

Greg, they mention the possibility of changes (Might be firesale) but if the right ingredients were never brought in kinda makes it hard to justify this as well.

[SoxAce]

There is time to turn it around but I can sure as heck predict crickets chirping in early June and July if they don't start hitting, pitching, and winning.

 

I would guarantee people would love watching a young team go through these struggles than a veteran one like we are even watching at home. Danks' brothers, Beckham, Flowers, Hudson, Santos, Floyd, hell even Lillibridge just to see his lucky charm ass etc.. etc... I am definitely more inclined to watch.

[chisoxfan09]

I would guarantee people would love watching a young team go through these struggles than a veteran one like we are even watching at home. Danks' brothers, Beckham, Flowers, Hudson, Santos, Floyd, hell even Lillibridge just to see his lucky charm ass etc.. etc... I am definitely more inclined to watch.

 

Ace, there is time still to really focus on what is wrong but as bad as this sounds we may have some nice vterans to sell of for some prospects later this year. Too early though. GO SOX!!!

 

One quick note, it is sad that as of now JDanks one would be the one to fetch us the most in a trade. But as I said too early.

Edited April 23, 2010 by chisoxfan09

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ace, there is time still to really focus on what is wrong but as bad as this sounds we may have some nice vterans to sell of for some prospects later this year. Too early though. GO SOX!!!

 

One quick note, it is sad that as of now JDanks one would be the one to fetch us the most in a trade. But as I said too early.

 

We do?

[SoxAce]

Ace, there is time still to really focus on what is wrong but as bad as this sounds we may have some nice vterans to sell of for some prospects later this year. Too early though. GO SOX!!!

 

One quick note, it is sad that as of now JDanks one would be the one to fetch us the most in a trade. But as I said too early.

 

Oh I know.. I was more or less speaking hypothetically. This team, in any sense, is boring to watch though. Hell I would be "interested" to see who we get with the other names who can be on the block too. Just was speaking the "if" option.

Edited April 23, 2010 by SoxAce

[chisoxfan09]

We do?

 

Maybe not. We would probably have to sacrifice our younger talent to get something but that ain't gonna happen I think.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Maybe not. We would probably have to sacrifice our younger talent to get something but that ain't gonna happen I think.

 

The only two guys on the entire roster that would net us a nice return are Danks and Beckham. The latter is obviously going nowhere. Danks? Could be interesting if they can't come to an agreement on a long-term deal.

[daggins]

Sox can probably get some B prospects by trading AJ, Putz, maybe Bobby if they chip some cash (which they don't do). They can save some money by accepting junk for Paulie. If they get really lucky and he keeps hitting they can maybe get a middling prospect for Andruw. Not a lot but every little bit helps.

 

They could get blue chip guys by trading Floyd and especially Danks, but i'd really hate to see that happen.

 

I want to keep the faith here but I keep finding less painful ways to spend my time than following the Sox.

[Chisoxfn]

Just an FYI, but while some of us might like seeing young players, the majority of the fans will have zero interest seeing young players, especially if they aren't high upside young players, go through the motions of a 90 to 100 loss season.

[Quin]

Just an FYI, but while some of us might like seeing young players, the majority of the fans will have zero interest seeing young players, especially if they aren't high upside young players, go through the motions of a 90 to 100 loss season.

 

I'd lose my mind.

[chisoxfan09]

Just an FYI, but while some of us might like seeing young players, the majority of the fans will have zero interest seeing young players, especially if they aren't high upside young players, go through the motions of a 90 to 100 loss season.

 

Chisox, but what do you do at say the half way point if we are out of it with only about 60-70% of the right roster in place? Fans don't want to pay to see a loser. This is the big dilemma.

Edited April 23, 2010 by chisoxfan09

[ThunderBolt]

Just an FYI, but while some of us might like seeing young players, the majority of the fans will have zero interest seeing young players, especially if they aren't high upside young players, go through the motions of a 90 to 100 loss season.

I imagine Chicago would fall in love with Jordan Danks, but i can't imagine their being much enthusiasm for some of the other guys.

[SoxAce]

Just an FYI, but while some of us might like seeing young players, the majority of the fans will have zero interest seeing young players, especially if they aren't high upside young players, go through the motions of a 90 to 100 loss season.

 

Your right man... or maybe we can pull off a Rockies like 2009. Fire the manager, call up the young boys (top prospects) to fill out the departed guys places, find a Jim Tracy-like guy to manage these youngins right, mix in with the prime guys (Teahen, Peavy, Rios, Quentin) and a Buehrle/Thornton vet or two, and turn this thing around.

 

I imagine Chicago would fall in love with Jordan Danks, but i can't imagine their being much enthusiasm for some of the other guys.

 

I will probably LOVE Tyler Flowers personally. A true OBP/OPS catcher if everything goes right. Don't think sox fans will never really grasp that lovin though, not to mention will miss A.J. and his game I.Q.

Edited April 23, 2010 by SoxAce

[Chisoxfn]

Chisox, but what do you do at say the half way point if we are out of it with only about 60-70% of the right roster in place? Fans don't want to pay to see a loser. This is the big dilemma.

I don't have an answer, but the team is clearly in a really poor position and if it does fail this squad will be in serious trouble because the farm system is not there. The Sox have under-financed there system for a long time and that has made them heavily reliant on finding diamonds in the rough via FA and winning trades. When it comes to bringing up talent to replace or create a spark it really isn't an option for the Sox.

 

I think right now Kenny would rather try to find another bat or add than he would be to subtract because once he starts subtracting the Sox rebuilding period will be rough due to how badly the club has ignored its farm system.

 

A better idea would be to try and manage the payroll and reduce it in the areas you, while hoping to remain competitive, which should keep attendance numbers and allow the Sox to maintain a good size payroll. But if this team loses, they will be forced to make huge cuts to the team payroll and we might find ourselves in the position of the Padres when they finally crapped out (and that is not a good thing).

[Jordan4life_2007]

Just an FYI, but while some of us might like seeing young players, the majority of the fans will have zero interest seeing young players, especially if they aren't high upside young players, go through the motions of a 90 to 100 loss season.

 

You're right. And this drives me absolutely crazy. Since 1983, we've made the postseason 5 times. That means in 21 of the last 26 seasons we did not see playoff baseball. That, well, sucks. I laugh when I hear, and again you're right, Sox fans talk about they won't stand for a youth movement or any type of rebuilding. "I WON'T GET ANY TICKETS IF THEY REBUILD!" As if we've had this extended run of success. You know what? Stay the f*** home then. The attendance is second rate anyway. I'd rather go the route of putting more effort into the draft, beefing up the farm, maybe make a shrewd trade or two, and go from there. Beats spending 100+ million only to finish third most years.

 

I'd lose my mind.

 

I take it you didn't become a fan until 2005? Either that or you were too young to see the teams from 95-99. And some of the older chatters can go back way back to when it was even worse than that.

 

[Chisoxfn]

You're right. And this drives me absolutely crazy. Since 1983, we've made the postseason 5 times. That means in 21 of the last 26 seasons we did not see playoff baseball. That, well, sucks. I laugh when I hear, and again you're right, Sox fans talk about they won't stand for a youth movement or any type of rebuilding. "I WON'T GET ANY TICKETS IF THEY REBUILD!" As if we've had this extended run of success. You know what? Stay the f*** home then. The attendance is second rate anyway. I'd rather go the route of putting more effort into the draft, beefing up the farm, maybe make a shrewd trade or two, and go from there. Beats spending 100+ million only to finish third most years.

 

 

 

I take it you didn't become a fan until 2005? Either that or you were too young to see the teams from 95-99. And some of the older chatters can go back way back to when it was even worse than that.

The Sox have also made the playoffs 3 times during this decade, which isn't too bad. I realize it isn't Yankees or Red Sox good but given the payroll that isn't all that bad. I'm utterly disappointing that we didn't win more or make the playoffs more but we were in a division that has been relatively competitive, albeit many years lacking a great team. Lets not act as if the team has been a failure recently.

 

And when you talk about youth movements, I don't think you can go back to 1983, because the Sox had a youth movement in the early 90's and again in the late 90's (which was started with the White Flag trade). Will we have another movement, I don't know.

 

I think it is more likely we see more of the aging faces going away, but guys like Danks/Floyd, they can be useful and don't need to be traded away in a hurry. Heck, St. Louis was a pretty bad team with a poor farm system and in about a year and a half they got themselves back on the right track again. Albert Pujols obviously helped significantly and the Cards poor team was impacted by injuries to guys like Carpenter, but it can be done.

 

Lastly, don't forget that it is incredibly difficult to make the playoffs year in and year out in baseball, especially when you don't have the budget of a team like the Red Sox/Dodgers/Angels/Yankees/Cardinals/etc.

[caulfield12]

You're right. And this drives me absolutely crazy. Since 1983, we've made the postseason 5 times. That means in 21 of the last 26 seasons we did not see playoff baseball. That, well, sucks. I laugh when I hear, and again you're right, Sox fans talk about they won't stand for a youth movement or any type of rebuilding. "I WON'T GET ANY TICKETS IF THEY REBUILD!" As if we've had this extended run of success. You know what? Stay the f*** home then. The attendance is second rate anyway. I'd rather go the route of putting more effort into the draft, beefing up the farm, maybe make a shrewd trade or two, and go from there. Beats spending 100+ million only to finish third most years.

 

 

 

I take it you didn't become a fan until 2005? Either that or you were too young to see the teams from 95-99. And some of the older chatters can go back way back to when it was even worse than that.

 

I know it sucks, but you have to consider leading the division by one over the hated Indians in 1994 as something.

 

Yes, we didn't see playoff baseball that year, but we had a team that was definitely capable of winning it all, extremely entertaining...so 20.5/26.

 

 

Going back to 93 and counting 94, you could make the argument for that it has been 5 times in 19 years, which somehow sounds a lot better. Even though 1994 was a "hollow" or Pyrrhic victory.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2010 by caulfield12

[Chisoxfn]

Hey Caufield. Where in China are you?

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Sox have also made the playoffs 3 times during this decade, which isn't too bad. I realize it isn't Yankees or Red Sox good but given the payroll that isn't all that bad. I'm utterly disappointing that we didn't win more or make the playoffs more but we were in a division that has been relatively competitive, albeit many years lacking a great team. Lets not act as if the team has been a failure recently.

 

Considering there hasn't been anything remotely close to a powerhouse in our division (i.e. the Red Sox or Yankees) 3 years outta 10 is not impressive at all. The payroll has been up over 100+ 4 of the last 5 years. This despite the fact that it takes winning the World Series to rack up consistent sell-outs.

 

And when you talk about youth movements, I don't think you can go back to 1983, because the Sox had a youth movement in the early 90's and again in the late 90's (which was started with the White Flag trade). Will we have another movement, I don't know.

 

I think it is more likely we see more of the aging faces going away, but guys like Danks/Floyd, they can be useful and don't need to be traded away in a hurry. Heck, St. Louis was a pretty bad team with a poor farm system and in about a year and a half they got themselves back on the right track again. Albert Pujols obviously helped significantly and the Cards poor team was impacted by injuries to guys like Carpenter, but it can be done.

 

Hey, I don't want to go that route. But I'm certainly not going to jump ship if they do. I mean a playoff appearance every 3-4 years doesn't exactly get me stoked. I'd rather build for a sustained run if possible. And what worries me the most is that we're starting to lag behind. The Twins aren't going anywhere. I've accepted this fact. And now they can spend. The Tigers have proven they'll spend money. The Indians have a loaded farm. We're just kinda blah.

 

Lastly, don't forget that it is incredibly difficult to make the playoffs year in and year out in baseball, especially when you don't have the budget of a team like the Red Sox/Dodgers/Angels/Yankees/Cardinals/etc.

 

Well, those teams don't have a problem drawing fans. And I'm not asking for a Braves type run. It's still really early, but this team is in danger of missing the playoffs for the 4th time in 5 years since 2005. That's just not getting it done in a division that's been underwhelming to say the least.

[Quin]

I take it you didn't become a fan until 2005? Either that or you were too young to see the teams from 95-99. And some of the older chatters can go back way back to when it was even worse than that.

 

I was too young to remember much of the 90's (I remember Frank Thomas hitting a bomb at my first game, and being sad when Albert Belle left) and didn't follow sports teams record a whole lot until '04.