Sox situation: Grave

[caulfield12]

Hey Caufield. Where in China are you?

 

 

Hangzhou...1 1/2 hours from Shanghai by train, more or less

 

15925642611 (cell number)

 

I will be in Shanghai for a preview of the upcoming WORLD EXPO all day Sunday.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Hangzhou...1 1/2 hours from Shanghai by train, more or less

 

15925642611 (cell number)

 

I will be in Shanghai for a preview of the upcoming WORLD EXPO all day Sunday.

I am not 100% certain yet, but I actually think I'll be at the World Expo on Sunday as well. If we don't get tickets, I think we are going to try and do a day trip to Hangzhou. We hear it is a very beautiful place.

 

What are you in Shanghai for? Do you teach here?

[caulfield12]

I live in Hangzhou now and teach English, History and Economics at ZJUT.

 

Have been here since March 2nd, when I finished my university contract teaching in Thailand.

 

West Lake is indeed very beautiful, you should go there and take a boat ride, but when the weather's nice there will be a TON of people and lots of traffic, so allow yourself lots of extra time...you should also try to check out Suzhou or Yellow Mountain if you have the opportunity.

 

Give me a call if you have a working cell phone here. I will be in Shanghai with my co-workers, maybe I can buy you lunch...and commiserate about the Sox. Will be back in Hangzhou Sunday night at 7 or so.

 

BTW, be careful about the KTV's and "pink rooms." Wink, wink.

Edited April 23, 2010 by caulfield12

[Chisoxfn]

I live in Hangzhou now and teach English, History and Economics at ZJUT.

 

Have been here since March 2nd, when I finished my university contract teaching in Thailand.

 

West Lake is indeed very beautiful, you should go there and take a boat ride, but when the weather's nice there will be a TON of people and lots of traffic, so allow yourself lots of extra time...you should also try to check out Suzhou or Yellow Mountain if you have the opportunity.

 

Give me a call if you have a working cell phone here. I will be in Shanghai with my co-workers, maybe I can buy you lunch...and commiserate about the Sox. Will be back in Hangzhou Sunday night at 7 or so.

 

BTW, be careful about the KTV's and "pink rooms." Wink, wink.

Haha, I just found out that Saturday I'll be going to the expo and I think I'll be in Shanghai on Sunday. Let me know where you'll be and we can meet up. Do you happen to have a blackberry because my phone doesn't work too well for actual calls? If you do, what is your BBM pin or email address?

 

I'm going to Suzhou on Tuesday as the company I work for has a manufacturing plant their that I will be touring. While we are there, we will evidently have a lot of time to sight see as well. I've been told that Suzhou has nice pearls (to buy as a gift for my fiance, my sister and my mom), a cool set of canals which we will be going on, and than a tower to see. Is there anything else I should check out while in Suzhou?

 

Also, any random recommendations for Shanghai. We've gone up to the Pearl Tower and are hoping to go up the World Financial Tower at some point during the next week. We saw the circus here (which was badass), been to the gardens and a few other areas and I think on Sunday will hit up the People's Museum & Museum of Science & Technology (which must be ridiculous since they spent just over 500M on it).

[Dick Allen]

Paging Dick Allen.

Didn't JR say money was there for another hitter a couple of years ago? Maybe he ought to look under his bed. Forbes said he pulled a $26 million profit last year. A bigger profit than the Cubs.

 

The Business Of Baseball

04.07.10, 06:00 PM EDT

 

 

Rank Team Current Value1 ($mil) 1-Yr Value Change (%) Debt/Value2 (%) Revenues ($mil) Operating Income3 ($mil)

27 Florida Marlins 317 15 32 144 46.1

2 Boston Red Sox 870 4 28 266 40.0

18 Washington Nationals 387 -5 65 184 33.5

4 Los Angeles Dodgers 727 1 58 247 33.1

15 San Diego Padres 408 2 49 157 32.1

10 Chicago White Sox 466 3 9 194 26.4

3 New York Mets 858 -6 81 268 26.2

5 Chicago Cubs 726 4 80 246 25.5

16 Minnesota Twins 405 14 25 162 25.0

1 New York Yankees 1,600 7 89 441 24.9

9 San Francisco Giants 483 3 26 201 23.5

29 Oakland Athletics 295 -8 30 155 22.1

19 Colorado Rockies 384 3 21 183 20.1

21 Baltimore Orioles 376 -6 40 171 19.4

25 Cincinnati Reds 331 -3 12 166 17.8

28 Tampa Bay Rays 316 -1 19 156 15.7

30 Pittsburgh Pirates 289 0 35 145 15.6

6 Philadelphia Phillies 537 8 33 233 14.5

26 Toronto Blue Jays 326 -8 0 163 13.1

8 St Louis Cardinals 488 0 56 195 12.8

7 Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 521 2 7 217 12.0

14 Seattle Mariners 439 3 23 191 10.5

23 Milwaukee Brewers 351 1 34 171 10.2

17 Cleveland Indians 391 -2 28 170 10.1

24 Kansas City Royals 341 9 15 155 8.9

11 Houston Astros 453 2 12 189 7.1

12 Texas Rangers 451 11 105 180 4.7

13 Atlanta Braves 450 1 0 188 1.5

20 Arizona Diamondbacks 379 -3 38 172 -0.6

22 Detroit Tigers 375 1 56 188 -29.5

 

 

I think this was JR's annual "we really can't afford what we have" speech and he is really saying is if this current group doesn't work, Konerko, Jenks, AJP, will be replaced by cheap guys which we all know will probably happen anyway. If they are extended now, I would put the odds of A. Gonzalez coming to the Sox around zero. They would have to give up some of that cheap filler, and how would they find the cash to give him an extension?

Edited April 23, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

The Sox have also made the playoffs 3 times during this decade, which isn't too bad. I realize it isn't Yankees or Red Sox good but given the payroll that isn't all that bad. I'm utterly disappointing that we didn't win more or make the playoffs more but we were in a division that has been relatively competitive, albeit many years lacking a great team. Lets not act as if the team has been a failure recently.

 

And when you talk about youth movements, I don't think you can go back to 1983, because the Sox had a youth movement in the early 90's and again in the late 90's (which was started with the White Flag trade). Will we have another movement, I don't know.

 

I think it is more likely we see more of the aging faces going away, but guys like Danks/Floyd, they can be useful and don't need to be traded away in a hurry. Heck, St. Louis was a pretty bad team with a poor farm system and in about a year and a half they got themselves back on the right track again. Albert Pujols obviously helped significantly and the Cards poor team was impacted by injuries to guys like Carpenter, but it can be done.

 

Lastly, don't forget that it is incredibly difficult to make the playoffs year in and year out in baseball, especially when you don't have the budget of a team like the Red Sox/Dodgers/Angels/Yankees/Cardinals/etc.

 

If it were back when there were 7 team divisions and 2 teams from each league made the playoffs, 3 times in 10 years would be impressive. With 5 team divsions and the economic advantage the Sox have had on the AL Central, 3 times in 10 years should be minimum. Throw out KC, they have no chance. That's 4 teams in 10 years. 2.5 per team. Cleveland? Detroit?

 

KW and Ozzie have a WS title. That's really the only thing they can hang their hats on, and to their credit, its a rather large thing to hang their hats on. If the team would have bowed out like the Cubs in 2003, I really doubt either would have much support from anyone other than JR at this time.

[caulfield12]

Haha, I just found out that Saturday I'll be going to the expo and I think I'll be in Shanghai on Sunday. Let me know where you'll be and we can meet up. Do you happen to have a blackberry because my phone doesn't work too well for actual calls? If you do, what is your BBM pin or email address?

 

I'm going to Suzhou on Tuesday as the company I work for has a manufacturing plant their that I will be touring. While we are there, we will evidently have a lot of time to sight see as well. I've been told that Suzhou has nice pearls (to buy as a gift for my fiance, my sister and my mom), a cool set of canals which we will be going on, and than a tower to see. Is there anything else I should check out while in Suzhou?

 

Also, any random recommendations for Shanghai. We've gone up to the Pearl Tower and are hoping to go up the World Financial Tower at some point during the next week. We saw the circus here (which was badass), been to the gardens and a few other areas and I think on Sunday will hit up the People's Museum & Museum of Science & Technology (which must be ridiculous since they spent just over 500M on it).

 

 

You've done a lot more than I have in Shanghai. Surprised you weren't basejumping like Tom Cruise in MI-3!

 

I forgot to bring my passport last time I went, big mistake. Even though I have resident (Z) visa, you always have to take your passport in Shanghai to stay in a hotel, they're really cracking down because of the EXPO and increased criminal activity.

 

In China, I have to been to Wuhan, Beijing, Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan/Taipei, Guangdong/Shenzhen, on a cruise of the Yangtze/3 Gorges Dam (my second job was with a cruise/tour company)...would still like to go to Xian, Xiamen, Hainan Island, Nepal/Tibet/Bhutan and Nanjing when I get the chance.

 

You hit on the Suzhou highlights. It used to be the Venice of China (or St. Petersburg) but its lost a lot of it traditional feeling with modernization and the tearing down of many of the centuries old structures to be replaced by new upper-tier per square meter apartments/condos. Supposedly, the most beautiful women in China came from Suzhou in the time period about 30-50 years ago, the city was legendary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fathom]

I really hope this team can do something to start getting some butts in the seats. We need all the payroll we can generate in order to turn this thing around.

[Balta1701]

I really hope this team can do something to start getting some butts in the seats. We need all the payroll we can generate in order to turn this thing around.

How? By offering people bribes to start hitting/pitching their career numbers?

[kwolf68]

 

I guess obtaining aging vets, injury prone plodders and role/utlility players and plugging them into a starting role isn't paying off.

 

Even our so-called good players (Quentin, Peavy, AJ) are so worthless at this point I don't care if they put all of them on the DL just to get someone else to watch.

[southsider2k5]

Didn't JR say money was there for another hitter a couple of years ago? Maybe he ought to look under his bed. Forbes said he pulled a $26 million profit last year. A bigger profit than the Cubs.

 

Are we really back to this busted argument again?

[chetkincaid]

Didn't JR say money was there for another hitter a couple of years ago? Maybe he ought to look under his bed. Forbes said he pulled a $26 million profit last year. A bigger profit than the Cubs.

 

I remember being flamed on this board this past winter for suggesting JR could really afford free agents if he wanted them. Did the Sox really make that big of a profit last year?

[Harry Chappas]

I have sided with JR and understand his philosophy but I am tired of being told I need to support the s*** product if I want them to spend. I should not have to watch this team because it has a $100M payroll. This team is not worth watching as guillen trots out two guys that I would not want to see in the independent league. I know Lucy is not a long term option but when he was hitting the ball he should have played. Now he will rot away as we watch AJ look like s*** play on Sunday go 0-4 and not play again for a week as AJ swings at first pitch and the ball never leaves the infield.

[Balta1701]

I have sided with JR and understand his philosophy but I am tired of being told I need to support the s*** product if I want them to spend. I should not have to watch this team because it has a $100M payroll. This team is not worth watching as guillen trots out two guys that I would not want to see in the independent league. I know Lucy is not a long term option but when he was hitting the ball he should have played. Now he will rot away as we watch AJ look like s*** play on Sunday go 0-4 and not play again for a week as AJ swings at first pitch and the ball never leaves the infield.

You're arguing that Donny Lucy is part of the solution.

[caulfield12]

Which is like arguing that Corky Miller after a multiple hit game last year in April was, too.

 

The future at catcher begins and ends with Flowers....Gonzalez and Phegley are 2-3 years away.

[NorthSideSox72]

I have sided with JR and understand his philosophy but I am tired of being told I need to support the s*** product if I want them to spend. I should not have to watch this team because it has a $100M payroll. This team is not worth watching as guillen trots out two guys that I would not want to see in the independent league. I know Lucy is not a long term option but when he was hitting the ball he should have played. Now he will rot away as we watch AJ look like s*** play on Sunday go 0-4 and not play again for a week as AJ swings at first pitch and the ball never leaves the infield.

Lucy is my AAP, I've followed his career, and I'm as big an advocate for him as anyone. I'm very happy he is the backup C, and I think he can perform well in that role. But... that's all he is - a backup. He's not the future, and he's not a guy you play regularly, or he'll get exposed and hit .150. AJ will work through his slump, he needs time. Donny should play once a week max, unless AJ is nursing an injury of some kind.

 

[kjshoe04]

You're arguing that Donny Lucy is part of the solution.

Which goes to show how bad this has gotten.

[kitekrazy]

Ace, there is time still to really focus on what is wrong but as bad as this sounds we may have some nice vterans to sell of for some prospects later this year. Too early though. GO SOX!!!

 

One quick note, it is sad that as of now JDanks one would be the one to fetch us the most in a trade. But as I said too early.

 

Prospects. That's what they are. I want players not prospects.

 

Trading Danks would suck. I hate to weaken the rotation because they can't hit the ball. I don't think aquiring one hitter would be enough.

[Balta1701]

Trading Danks would suck. I hate to weaken the rotation because they can't hit the ball. I don't think aquiring one hitter would be enough.

Having everyone hit their career numbers would be like finding 4 new hitters.

[LittleHurt05]

You're arguing that Donny Lucy is part of the solution.

 

Whats with people and their infatuation with backup catchers? AJP plays 140 games, the backup is insignificant in the end. Its like when Toby Hall was injured in ST, and board almost crashed cause everyone thought the season was over.

Edited April 23, 2010 by LittleHurt05

[Harry Chappas]

You're arguing that Donny Lucy is part of the solution.

 

Read the whole post I said he was not a long term option but he was actually having god at bats I guess that means nothing as it does not with guillen. I never saw Lucy play and he could suck but he was doing some good which is beter than the year plus of swinging at the first strike we see mentally.

 

I AM NOT SAYING PLAY LUCY OVER AJ what I am saying is if Castro was healthy he would have twice as many at bats as Lucy and would be facing every leftie they face and I never saw him have a good at bat. Lucy is also as good defensively as AJ. I guess the ground out on the first pitch is just what this team needs nightly.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Jenks Heat

[kitekrazy]

I have sided with JR and understand his philosophy but I am tired of being told I need to support the s*** product if I want them to spend.

 

What company in the real world would ever have that philosophy?

[Balta1701]

What company in the real world would ever have that philosophy?

Every single firm on Wall Street.

 

Every health insurance company.

[kitekrazy]

I guess obtaining aging vets, injury prone plodders and role/utlility players and plugging them into a starting role isn't paying off.

 

Nope. It was a high risk that these guys would rediscover their youth. I wasn't surprised at all it would turn out this way. I have no problem letting this all play out for the whole season. I don't think there is anything they can do this season that will put them over the top. Gonzlez would help but you would need another bat to protect him.

 

 

 

[dyuen]

The only two guys on the entire roster that would net us a nice return are Danks and Beckham. The latter is obviously going nowhere. Danks? Could be interesting if they can't come to an agreement on a long-term deal.

 

I see no upside in trading Danks. He is probably our best pitcher now and a good chance he gets even better. What possible return could we get that would make it a good deal?