Arizona requires you to carry your papers

[jasonxctf]

everyday you vote with your wallet.

[Balta1701]

tax money won't go towards ones that advocate overthrowing the government or promote hatred of other races. a non issue being sensationalized. these type of racial hatred classes shouldn't be tax funded, that is for sure.

I find it impressive that an argument in favor of both of these bills is "oh it really won't change anything. You won't have all hispanic teachers banned from schools, you won't have any new random stops on the street for immigration checks, you won't have any classes that once existed being banned".

 

Funny, I once thought that the great doctrine of "Conservatism" thought it was a bad thing to over-legislate. That if a bill wasn't going to make a big difference, it shouldn't be worth your time, because you're more likely to screw things up. That bills shouldn't be too long or complex (2000 pages, it must be bad!) Maybe there's an exemption in that rule for people who don't look like me.

[mr_genius]

Maybe there's an exemption in that rule for people who don't look like me.

 

i don't know what you look like, but i doubt you are getting an exception.

[Balta1701]

i don't know what you look like, but i doubt you are getting an exception.

By that phrase, of course, I meant "People who don't look like white males, age 21-64". It's obviously perfectly ok to come up with angry sounding legislation for people who don't look like that even if it doesn't do anything. It's the conservative way.

[mr_genius]

By that phrase, of course, I meant "People who don't look like white males, age 21-64". It's obviously perfectly ok to come up with angry sounding legislation for people who don't look like that even if it doesn't do anything. It's the conservative way.

 

i talked it over with the powers that be, and you still don't get an exception. you just gonna have to teach a different class.

[Balta1701]

i talked it over with the powers that be, and you still don't get an exception. you just gonna have to teach a different class.

Too bad, I'm white, the exception is automatic.

[mr_genius]

Too bad, I'm white, the exception is automatic.

 

nope. sorry.

 

you are in an unfortunate position. we have decided to revoke your whiteness; no more free pass, sorry bud. And yes we have a database to track you with the microchip implanted in your brain (tinfoil hats will not interfere with the signal so don't waste your time). you also get no minority preferences, because, well you are still technically white.

 

USA!

[Balta1701]

you also get no minority preferences, because, well you are still technically white.

Tough. i can still walk down the street.

[mr_genius]

i can still walk down the street.

 

for now

[EvilMonkey]

So now the AZ legislature, and Gov Brewer, have signed off on a bill banning ethnic studies classes in the state. But, the law specifically only does so in response to classes that encourage sedition or the derision of specific racial groups.

 

Basically, they passed an law that can only be enforced by the subjective criteria of when some group of people feels threatend by the teachings in a class.

 

WTF is wrong with these people? I mean, I don't really like the idea of ethno-centric teaching in primary/secondary school either, but this is just ridiclous. Seriously, the level of hate - and yes, its hate - in this country is appalling to me. If some class is being taught that is promoting violence or bad conduct towards a group of people, then they already have the authority to end that anyway. This law achieves nothing in the objective sense, and yet causes EXACTLY the cultural tension they are supposedly interested in rooting out.

 

Unbelieveable.

It's all about the protecting children! What kind of job are they gonna get with an ethnic studies degree anyway? They just stopping them before they become a greater burden on their parents and society in general. It's all about protecting the children! (That's what the liberals scream for every thing they do, right?) (also, this post should be in half-green text)

[Balta1701]

It's all about the protecting children! What kind of job are they gonna get with an ethnic studies degree anyway? They just stopping them before they become a greater burden on their parents and society in general. It's all about protecting the children! (That's what the liberals scream for every thing they do, right?) (also, this post should be in half-green text)

Maude Flanders was a liberal?

[G&T]

Maude Flanders was a liberal?

 

That episode is on right now. Here, anyway.

[Balta1701]

That episode is on right now. Here, anyway.

Solid timing. I'm in my office at work, so no, I'm not watching it.

[lostfan]

[/b]

 

tax money won't go towards ones that advocate overthrowing the government or promote hatred of other races. a non issue being sensationalized. these type of racial hatred classes shouldn't be tax funded, that is for sure.

Prohibits a school district or charter school from including in its program of instruction any courses or classes that:

 

1 Promote the overthrow of the United States government.

 

Ok, sounds reasonable, no argument from me, in fact I wasn't even aware people really needed to be told not to do this

 

2 Promote resentment toward a race or class of people.

 

Ok I guess, seen purely at face value, that's reasonable too, but sometimes when you look at history accurately, it's not pretty, and an argument can be made that teaching this could lead to resentment of a "race or class of people" (i.e., "I hate whitey because he snatched this land from my ancestors" or something like that)

 

3 Are designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group.

 

What does this mean exactly? Is Hispanic history only for Hispanics? Is black history only for blacks? Isn't this purely subjective?

 

4 Advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals.

 

Again, this means pretty much nothing and amounts to political grandstanding. I agree that history class is for learning history and not for teaching "pride" (incidentally, I wrote this on my Facebook status earlier today: "Pride is not a virtue, usually it's just a weak, and sometimes transparent, way of concealing a lack of legitimate reasons for justified self-worth") but we're not supposed to be teaching kids "how to be patriotic" in school either and we shouldn't be avoiding teaching facts just because they're inconvenient.

Edited May 13, 2010 by lostfan

[mr_genius]

Prohibits a school district or charter school from including in its program of instruction any courses or classes that:

 

1 Promote the overthrow of the United States government.

 

Ok, sounds reasonable, no argument from me, in fact I wasn't even aware people really needed to be told not to do this

 

2 Promote resentment toward a race or class of people.

 

Ok I guess, seen purely at face value, that's reasonable too, but sometimes when you look at history accurately, it's not pretty, and an argument can be made that teaching this could lead to resentment of a "race or class of people" (i.e., "I hate whitey because he snatched this land from my ancestors" or something like that)

 

3 Are designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group.

 

What does this mean exactly? Is Hispanic history only for Hispanics? Is black history only for blacks? Isn't this purely subjective?

 

4 Advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals.

 

Again, this means pretty much nothing and amounts to political grandstanding. I agree that history class is for learning history and not for teaching "pride" (incidentally, I wrote this on my Facebook status earlier today: "Pride is not a virtue, usually it's just a weak, and sometimes transparent, way of concealing a lack of legitimate reasons for justified self-worth") but we're not supposed to be teaching kids "how to be patriotic" in school either and we shouldn't be avoiding teaching facts just because they're inconvenient.

 

agreed

[bmags]

sounds like a pretty communist law to me.

[Texsox]

It's all about the protecting children! What kind of job are they gonna get with an ethnic studies degree anyway? They just stopping them before they become a greater burden on their parents and society in general. It's all about protecting the children! (That's what the liberals scream for every thing they do, right?) (also, this post should be in half-green text)

 

 

yep, all they need to know is "if it ain't white, it just ain't right"

[G&T]

Prohibits a school district or charter school from including in its program of instruction any courses or classes that:

 

1 Promote the overthrow of the United States government.

 

Ok, sounds reasonable, no argument from me, in fact I wasn't even aware people really needed to be told not to do this

 

2 Promote resentment toward a race or class of people.

 

Ok I guess, seen purely at face value, that's reasonable too, but sometimes when you look at history accurately, it's not pretty, and an argument can be made that teaching this could lead to resentment of a "race or class of people" (i.e., "I hate whitey because he snatched this land from my ancestors" or something like that)

 

3 Are designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group.

 

What does this mean exactly? Is Hispanic history only for Hispanics? Is black history only for blacks? Isn't this purely subjective?

 

4 Advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals.

 

Again, this means pretty much nothing and amounts to political grandstanding. I agree that history class is for learning history and not for teaching "pride" (incidentally, I wrote this on my Facebook status earlier today: "Pride is not a virtue, usually it's just a weak, and sometimes transparent, way of concealing a lack of legitimate reasons for justified self-worth") but we're not supposed to be teaching kids "how to be patriotic" in school either and we shouldn't be avoiding teaching facts just because they're inconvenient.

 

The bills specifically states that it does not restrict the teaching of ethnic history as long as the class is open to all students.

 

But this is interesting:

The bill was written to target the Chicano, or Mexican American, studies program in the Tucson school system, said state Supt. of Public Instruction Tom Horne.

 

School districts that don't comply with the new law could have as much as 10% of their state funds withheld each month. Districts have the right to appeal the mandate, which goes into effect Dec. 31.

 

Tucson Unified School District officials say the Chicano studies classes benefit students and promote critical thinking. "We don't teach all those ugly things they think we're teaching," said Judy Burns, the president of the district's governing board.

 

She has no intention of ending the program, which offers courses from elementary school through high school in topics such as literature, history and social justice, with an emphasis on Latino authors and history. About 3% of the district's 55,000 students are enrolled in such classes.

 

Horne has been trying to end the program for years, saying it divides students by race and promotes resentment. He singled out one history book used in some classes, "Occupied America: A History of Chicanos," by Rodolfo Acuna, a professor and founder of the Chicano studies program at Cal State Northridge.

 

"To begin with, the title of the book implies to the kids that they live in occupied America, or occupied Mexico," Horne said last week in a telephone interview.

More at link

 

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Seriously, isn't White Male Christian European History good enough for them? Why do they need 'ethnic' studies that only serve to divide?

[EvilMonkey]

Seriously, isn't White Male Christian European History good enough for them? Why do they need 'ethnic' studies that only serve to divide?

Occupied America: A History of Chicanos

 

Yeah, that sounds all inclusive and stuff.

[StrangeSox]

Occupied America: A History of Chicanos

 

Yeah, that sounds all inclusive and stuff.

 

Crack open a standard US history textbook and let me know how much a Chicano (or really any ethnic minority) is going to learn about their culture or background. You go Mesopotamia->Egypt->Greece->Rome->Medival Europe->Colonialism->US. That's fine, and it's an important part of history. There's nothing wrong with seeing certain aspects of history from a US-centric viewpoint.

 

But you can't pretend it somehow covers all cultural backgrounds or is "all-inclusive".

[EvilMonkey]

Crack open a standard US history textbook and let me know how much a Chicano (or really any ethnic minority) is going to learn about their culture or background. You go Mesopotamia->Egypt->Greece->Rome->Medival Europe->Colonialism->US. That's fine, and it's an important part of history. There's nothing wrong with seeing certain aspects of history from a US-centric viewpoint.

 

But you can't pretend it somehow covers all cultural backgrounds or is "all-inclusive".

So because there are no references to Mexicans regarding the Revolutionary War, you think it is ok to teach them that American 'stole' part of their country and such? To be divisive? All this does is fuel the racial animosity even more by trying to give them victim status.

[Texsox]

The immigrant story we tell is always through New York, very little history or literature is about San Francisco and the Asians that immigrated. Still less are the people that were here when the boundaries started changing or who walked here. It is totally ignored from *our* history.

[Texsox]

So because there are no references to Mexicans regarding the Revolutionary War, you think it is ok to teach them that American 'stole' part of their country and such? To be divisive? All this does is fuel the racial animosity even more by trying to give them victim status.

 

That would be the Mexican-American war that we started.

[Balta1701]

That would be the Mexican-American war that we started.

You're lucky you don't teach in Arizona, I could get you fired.