Arizona requires you to carry your papers

[NorthSideSox72]

Sure, more money would actually stay in the country. IIRC Mexico's second biggest money maker behind petroleum is people sending dollars back to Mexico from the US. I think it was something like $20 billion a year. I'll bet that could generate a few jobs here too.

That is also part of the picture. But its not as if all the illegal immigrants do is mail their checks back home - they spend here too, and pay sales taxes. I'm just saying I think its funny to see people in this debate only look at one side of the ledger or the other, instead of both.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

There have already been reports of people going back to their homelands because of troubles finding a job in this recession. There is no reason to think that wouldn't happen to a larger extent if we cleaned up our employers.

And this I wholeheartedly agree with - enforcement on businesses is a key piece to any useful legislation in immigration reform.

 

[EvilJester99]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-apri...10/law---border

[Texsox]

And who would be working those jobs? I already saw the local shrimp industry destroyed when the DoL sharply reduced the number of temporary VISAs they would allow. For some reason there just wasn't enough epople willing to spend 10 months on a shrimp boat in the Gulf of Mexico.

No we wouldn't, because we wouldn't have the extra 15 million or so people here.

[Texsox]

So what jobs do you think they are working? Yep, some are working in the restaurant industry, etc. But overall they are taking the lowest paying jobs. They are also the largest group of migrant workers. That isn't racist, that is stating facts of their employment. And last time I drove through Indiana I saw plenty of farm crops.

I don't know when racism became OK here, but clearly not all illegals are fruit pickers. This doesn't happen just in the crop belt, or there wouldn't be illegals here in Michigan City.

[Balta1701]

And who would be working those jobs? I already saw the local shrimp industry destroyed when the DoL sharply reduced the number of temporary VISAs they would allow. For some reason there just wasn't enough epople willing to spend 10 months on a shrimp boat in the Gulf of Mexico.

Well, we've found another way to kill the gulf of mexico shrimp industry. That ought to help with the immigration problem, right?

[Texsox]

We could also win the war on drugs if every employer drug tested every employee weekly.

And this I wholeheartedly agree with - enforcement on businesses is a key piece to any useful legislation in immigration reform.

[Y2HH]

We could also win the war on drugs if every employer drug tested every employee weekly.

 

No, this still wouldn't do it.

[Texsox]

If every drug user would also lose their jobs? They couldn't use drugs for long without income. The police would be called in and they would be arrested. Perhaps we could add large fines for companies who have drug users on their payroll.

No, this still wouldn't do it.

[BigSqwert]

There really isn't anything we can do to "win" the drug war. There are always going to be people who want to get high.

[Texsox]

These were legal workers. The DoL would issue about 1,000 VISAs for work on the boats. TRhey reduced the number to 400 after pressure from a couple unions. With a month or so before the season opened they started advertising for workers nationwide and through the unions. ABout 40% of the boats sat at their dock, fueled.

Well, we've found another way to kill the gulf of mexico shrimp industry. That ought to help with the immigration problem, right?

[Jenksismyhero]

Good read from the Gov'na

 

Today, Arizona has approximately 6,000 prison inmates who are foreign nationals, representing a cost to our state of roughly $150 million per year. Arizona taxpayers are paying for a vast majority of these incarceration expenses because the federal government refuses to pay what it owes. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, as governor of Arizona, sent numerous requests to the federal government to pay for these prisoners -- only to be given the same answer she and President Barack Obama are now giving Arizona: They will not pay the bill.

 

 

1. The new Arizona law creates a state penalty to mirror what already is a federal crime. Despite the most vile and hate-filled portrayals of proponents of the law as "Nazis," actions that have been condemned nationally by the Anti-Defamation League, it is ALREADY a federal requirement for legal aliens in the United States to carry their green card or other immigration document. The new Arizona law enforces what has been a federal crime since before World War II. As anyone who has traveled abroad knows, other nations have similar laws.

 

 

2. Contrary to many of the horror stories being spread -- President Obama suggested families risk being pulled over while going out for ice cream -- law enforcement cannot randomly ask anyone about their immigration status. Much like enforcement of seat belt laws in many states, under SB 1070 there must first be reasonable suspicion that you are breaking some OTHER non-immigration law before an officer can ask a person about their legal status. Only then, after law enforcement officers have a "reasonable suspicion" that another law has been broken, can they inquire about immigration status -- but ONLY if that individual's behavior provides "reasonable suspicion" that the person is here illegally.

 

 

"Reasonable suspicion" is a well-understood concept that has been thoroughly vetted through numerous federal court cases. Many have asked: What is reasonable suspicion? Is it race, skin color or national origin? No! Racial profiling is prohibited in the new law. Examples of reasonable suspicion include: a person running away when approached by law enforcement officers, or a car failing to stop when the police turn on their lights and siren.

 

 

3. Arizona's local law enforcement officers, who already reflect the great diversity of culture in our state, are going to be trained to enforce the new immigration law in a constitutional manner. It is shameful and presumptive for opponents to question the good will and the competence of Arizona's law enforcement personnel. The specter that is raised of rogue, racist police harassing people is insulting to those in Arizona who risk their lives in the name of law enforcement every day.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Jenksismybitch

[jasonxctf]

I'll trust the DOJ before I trust Jan Brewer. That's like trusting Rod Blagoveich or Mark Sanford.

[Balta1701]

Today, Arizona has approximately 6,000 prison inmates who are foreign nationals

Interesting and likely deliberate way of phrasing that.

[Texsox]

I will admit this, it is possible to enforce this law in a sane manner. I've just never been a believer that Arizona local police could pull it off . . .

[bmags]

You don't trust Sheriff Joe Arpaio? SHOCKING

[southsider2k5]

I will admit this, it is possible to enforce this law in a sane manner. I've just never been a believer that Arizona local police could pull it off . . .

 

It is another huge intrusion into individual rights, IMO.

[Texsox]

It is another huge intrusion into individual rights, IMO.

 

 

I agree. I'm just struggling to answer the question shouldn't a state have the right, or perhaps even have an obligation, to know the nationality of people within their borders? Or another way, under what conditions should someone be asked to prove their nationality? All of the solutions I can come up with have serious flaws.

[southsider2k5]

I agree. I'm just struggling to answer the question shouldn't a state have the right, or perhaps even have an obligation, to know the nationality of people within their borders? Or another way, under what conditions should someone be asked to prove their nationality? All of the solutions I can come up with have serious flaws.

 

Ideally the states shouldn't have to worry, but that is a different story.

[Texsox]

Ideally the states shouldn't have to worry, but that is a different story.

 

Good point. The other crazy part is when someone is caught they wind up released on some sort of bail arrangement until they can appear in court. Well duh, if you are here illegally you won't show up. But the Bill of Rights prevents suspects to be held without bail for a minor crime.

[Balta1701]

But the Bill of Rights prevents suspects to be held without bail for a minor crime.

So? It prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures too. You know darn well the only amendments that count when a Democrat is in office are 2 and 10.

[southsider2k5]

Good point. The other crazy part is when someone is caught they wind up released on some sort of bail arrangement until they can appear in court. Well duh, if you are here illegally you won't show up. But the Bill of Rights prevents suspects to be held without bail for a minor crime.

 

Maybe we should rethink illegal immigration as as minor crime? If the penalty means you are going to be out of the country anyway, why should you have the opportunity to get set free? You are right, that is counter-intuitive.

[Texsox]

Maybe we should rethink illegal immigration as as minor crime? If the penalty means you are going to be out of the country anyway, why should you have the opportunity to get set free? You are right, that is counter-intuitive.

 

It comes back to innocent until proven guilty. Just because someone is caught without proof of citizenship, doesn't mean they are illegals. You may have forgotten to bring your papers on a business trip. Deporting them becomes a problem. Plus what country do we deport them to? Hey, I'm here illegally, deport me to Australia for the summer! We think of all those Spanish speakers are Mexican nationals, but a large percentage, perhaps as many as 25% are from further south.

 

Maybe we do need a national ID card and if you lose it, risk being sent somewhere. I guess they would send me back to Germany lol

[knightni]

Thus the wonder that is the Patriot Act kicks in.

[southsider2k5]

It comes back to innocent until proven guilty. Just because someone is caught without proof of citizenship, doesn't mean they are illegals. You may have forgotten to bring your papers on a business trip. Deporting them becomes a problem. Plus what country do we deport them to? Hey, I'm here illegally, deport me to Australia for the summer! We think of all those Spanish speakers are Mexican nationals, but a large percentage, perhaps as many as 25% are from further south.

 

Maybe we do need a national ID card and if you lose it, risk being sent somewhere. I guess they would send me back to Germany lol

 

So the penalty shouldn't fit the crime?